The Matrix 4

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I kind of got the vibe that Trinity probably looked different to everyone but Neo as well. Which might have been why her husband laughed when she asked him if she looked like the girl in the game.

Yes, Trinity had long blonde hair in the new Matrix. You can see her reflection on the table during her date.

 

[Khev]

I also didn't take Neo and Trinity's statements about making changes to the matrix as being hypocritical at the end. Yes they played along with the Analyst's joke about the rainbow skies but then Neo clarified that what they were really planning to do was to show everyone what living in freedom looked like. So maybe they were planning on showing everyone how each person could either wake up or take a more active role in their own simulated environment. I didn't see it as too different to the statements he made to the machines over the phone in the last scene of the first movie.

 

[jye4ever]

Khev just pulled MR from the jaws of death lol

 

[ajp4mgs]

I also didn't take Neo and Trinity's statements about making changes to the matrix as being hypocritical at the end. Yes they played along with the Analyst's joke about the rainbow skies but then Neo clarified that what they were really planning to do was to show everyone what living in freedom looked like. So maybe they were planning on showing everyone how each person could either wake up or take a more active role in their own simulated environment. I didn't see it as too different to the statements he made to the machines over the phone in the last scene of the first movie.

Living in freedom isn't compatible with living in the Matrix. It's a simulated environment, and as such, needs to be programmed to either fool people into accepting a determined reality or be a "wish fulfillment paradise" for whatever reality they want. That second option sure would line up with how some people these days think our world should be.

To me, it's pretty obvious that the intent was for Neo and Trinity (Lana's avatars, IMO) to reverse course on the manipulation of emotions, and the stimulation of conflict, that the Analyst was using to produce record levels of energy output. All of this being analogous to reversing the director's view of an increasingly flawed modern society where people are increasingly being manipulated.

I don't know how the allegorical threading of this movie could've been a more bluntly-constructed metaphor for the ills of society and Hollywood, as seen by Lana Wachowski. Using Neo and Trinity to preach to you Lana's vision of the "ideal" society. But it's a vision where the solutions would be inherently hypocritical because the idea of "freeing" people's minds would be tantamount to controlling the changes that they'll be perceiving within the Matrix. Neo/Trinity get to decide that?

If the plan is to allow everyone to choose freedom by unplugging and joining the real world, then yeah, that'd be fine. But I think we can be pretty sure that's not the case because it would adversely impact the machines. The same machines that Neo helped forge a partnership with. The same machines that resurrected him.

To me, I don't think Wachowski was concerned with plot integrity. This was made mainly as a soapbox. Normally, I'd consider that a perfectly fine use of the medium. But a lot of what was being preached as "wrong" (about both Hollywood and society) was utilized hypocritically in the movie in order to have the soapbox platform and an audience. Only my opinion, of course, but I thought it was beyond blatant while watching.

 

[Wor-Gar]

the Analyst was using to produce record levels of energy output.

Is the goal basically like Monsters Inc scaring children for energy while laughter creates even more energy?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I also didn't take Neo and Trinity's statements about making changes to the matrix as being hypocritical at the end. Yes they played along with the Analyst's joke about the rainbow skies but then Neo clarified that what they were really planning to do was to show everyone what living in freedom looked like. So maybe they were planning on showing everyone how each person could either wake up or take a more active role in their own simulated environment. I didn't see it as too different to the statements he made to the machines over the phone in the last scene of the first movie.

Upon your second viewing, did the humor and Neo's unhappiness take on a different meaning knowing it was meant to be a form of torture?

 

[ajp4mgs]

Is the goal basically like Monsters Inc scaring children for energy while laughter creates even more energy?

On the most basic practical level there's a similarity, but it was used in this movie for a more targeted form of contemporary social commentary rather than for simple and broad theme.

I really hope you end up watching this movie and posting your take. It's a safe enough bet that watching it won't diminish your view of the franchise more than whatever the first two sequels already would've.

 

[Rotfish]

If the plan is to allow everyone to choose freedom by unplugging and joining the real world, then yeah, that'd be fine. But I think we can be pretty sure that's not the case because it would adversely impact the machines. The same machines that Neo helped forge a partnership with. The same machines that resurrected him.

But he didn't ask to be resurrected. They brought him back for their own benefit and created a new Matrix. He doesn't owe them any consideration.

 

[ajp4mgs]

But he didn't ask to be resurrected. They brought him back for their own benefit and created a new Matrix. He doesn't owe them any consideration.

Fair enough. But Neo also seems to have a synergy of sorts with the machines. His consciousness at the end of Revolutions already reflected that, and now it might be more pronounced with his life (and vision) having been reconstituted by machines.

Plus, he gets to be Superman in the Matrix.

 

[Khev]

Fair enough. But Neo also seems to have a synergy of sorts with the machines. His consciousness at the end of Revolutions already reflected that, and now it might be more pronounced with his life (and vision) having been reconstituted by machines.

See this is why I disagree with your take that "living in freedom isn't compatible with living in the Matrix." I think that living without freedom only occurs when the Matrix is used for deception and control. That to me is what Neo and Trinity wanted to abolish. But I could still see that even with full awareness of what the Matrix is and the freedom to leave at any time many people would elect to stay. Enough possibly to still be plugged in as power sources for the machines, assuming that that's truly necessary.

I say that because I doubt that the machines living harmoniously with the humans in IO (whether they be physical flying robots or of the "codex" variety) were getting their power from live humans. Which then begs the question as to what could be achieved in the machine's central city if they had an alliance and full cooperation with the humans.

But even if humans are needed to power all the machines of the surface world I think we already saw evidence of Neo's synergy with them spreading throughout humanity. I'm talking about the millions or billions of people who would soon realize that they were married to AI bots. Or had AI's as children. Even if the bots were a lesser form of sentience than say Sati or Morpheus I could still see many people electing to remain as they are and live out their lives as K and Joi attempted to do in BR 2049.

And then with regard to those more sentient beings if a human say wanted to marry Sati or Morpheus then they'd be faced with living in the real world with a hologram or codex or in the Matrix as a seemingly more traditionally "human" couple. I guess I just see the Matrix and physical worlds as equally viable living environments with native denizens in each that might have any number of reasons for living outside of their native "land," with Neo and Trinity being the deliverers of that message to all.

But that's just my take, and why the film works for me.

I know that your interpretation of what Lana was trying to say is more negative and cynical than mine, and honestly that's perfectly valid and acceptable. I'd be doing the movie (and your thoughtful insights) a disservice if I tried to suggest that there was only one way to read its themes and metaphors.

 

[Wor-Gar]

You will be well suited for the future of VR life.

 

[Khev]

Upon your second viewing, did the humor and Neo's unhappiness take on a different meaning knowing it was meant to be a form of torture?

Absolutely!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Real Life will disappear like vinyl when full VR is available... then of course a new generation will retro it back, and Real Life will be cool again.

I have to say, no matter how many virtual-babes suck your **** its nothing like a real live girl doing it.

 

[Otomofan]

Real Life will disappear like vinyl when full VR is available... then of course a new generation will retro it back, and Real Life will be cool again.

I have to say, no matter how many virtual-babes suck your **** its nothing like a real live girl doing it.

And it's funny about vinyl; it never really went away. There were always weirdos and hipsters that collected it and insisted vinyl is superior to CDs and digital. (I collect vinyl but only cause it looks cool; I have no illusions that all the pops and hisses actually sound good!)

What blows my mind is that there's been a HUGE resurgence in cassette tapes over the last few years. Mostly Zoomer kids buying them cause they think they're "cool." Cassettes are not and never will be "cool." They suck. They're ugly little plastic boxes and they sound like absolute ass. There's no way to find songs other than fast forwarding and rewinding and there's all the lossy hissing. They just plain suck. But kids are dumb by definition, and they're buying old cassettes off ebay like crazy. What a strange world we live in.

 

[jye4ever]

Epic posts by all I love this place!

When ajp collides with Khev it’s like the hadron super collider lol

Ok let me get back to my 2 Japanese VR girls showing me the new panties they bought just for my amusement.

 

[Stront]

Caught this over Christmas weekend, it was pretty inoffensive and on-par with Force Awakens, or Dark Fate. Not upset I watched, but like the other Matrix sequels, doubt I'd watch again.

 

[JAWS]

Epic posts by all I love this place!

When ajp collides with Khev it’s like the hadron super collider lol

Ok let me get back to my 2 Japanese VR girls showing me the new panties they bought just for my amusement

I can't believe so much time is being spent discussing this movie. I love Khev's epic posts but there is no way I am going to read them when they are about this film.

 

[jye4ever]

I can't believe so much time is being spent discussing this movie. I love Khev's epic posts but there is no way I am going to read them when they are about this film.

Every time Khev brings up this movie just post pictures of your massive new Hulk statue as the response lol

By the way is that statue taking up all of your living room table lol

 

[Khev]

I have absolutely nothing against NWH but a somewhat unsettling aspect of that story is

Spoiler

the fact that Peter took it upon himself to let MJ be imprisoned by her own amnesia despite her pretty much begging him to find her and share with her their true history. It makes sense why Peter would do that because he's still a kid and at the same point that Tobey was at when he kept rejecting Kirsten MJ in SM1 and SM2 but it still really sucks for Zendaya MJ.

So I am glad that Resurrections gave us a more mature hero who decided that it wasn't his place to condemn Trinity to a form of happiness that was a betrayal of her true self.

 

[ajp4mgs]

See this is why I disagree with your take that "living in freedom isn't compatible with living in the Matrix." I think that living without freedom only occurs when the Matrix is used for deception and control. That to me is what Neo and Trinity wanted to abolish. But I could still see that even with full awareness of what the Matrix is and the freedom to leave at any time many people would elect to stay. Enough possibly to still be plugged in as power sources for the machines, assuming that that's truly necessary.

I say that because I doubt that the machines living harmoniously with the humans in IO (whether they be physical flying robots or of the "codex" variety) were getting their power from live humans. Which then begs the question as to what could be achieved in the machine's central city if they had an alliance and full cooperation with the humans.

But even if humans are needed to power all the machines of the surface world I think we already saw evidence of Neo's synergy with them spreading throughout humanity. I'm talking about the millions or billions of people who would soon realize that they were married to AI bots. Or had AI's as children. Even if the bots were a lesser form of sentience than say Sati or Morpheus I could still see many people electing to remain as they are and live out their lives as K and Joi attempted to do in BR 2049.

And then with regard to those more sentient beings if a human say wanted to marry Sati or Morpheus then they'd be faced with living in the real world with a hologram or codex or in the Matrix as a seemingly more traditionally "human" couple. I guess I just see the Matrix and physical worlds as equally viable living environments with native denizens in each that might have any number of reasons for living outside of their native "land," with Neo and Trinity being the deliverers of that message to all.

But that's just my take, and why the film works for me.

I know that your interpretation of what Lana was trying to say is more negative and cynical than mine, and honestly that's perfectly valid and acceptable. I'd be doing the movie (and your thoughtful insights) a disservice if I tried to suggest that there was only one way to read its themes and metaphors.

The concept of freedom in a Matrix-like reality is something I could discuss for days; it's an itch that I wouldn't be able to scratch enough. But I have to try to keep this specifically about Matrix 4. Must. Show. Restraint.

The points you raise about people willingly choosing to remain in the Matrix (much like Cypher in the first movie) are the perfect examples to illustrate what I mean about the hypocrisy between the movie's plot and its preachy message. Those who would choose like Cypher are portrayed as a clear part of the problem. However, the solution ends up being to allow them their artificial lives, but with a "liberated" designer of their reality. Think about that.

Wachowski spends time using dialogue from various characters to condemn the willingness of people to accept the inherent artifice of losing oneself in technology. The in-movie sheeple that the Analyst talks about are those who live in the Matrix and are most energized by manipulation. They're an obvious analog to the sheeple in our society who let themselves become slaves to the manipulations of social media and other tech. That's one of the main points of commentary. And I would say so far, so good with that commentary.

But how does the actual plot play itself out in terms of solving the problem? By having Neo/Trinity decide how people should be *allowed* to live in the Matrix. From their point of view, they're being righteous in wanting to "free" people from being manipulated. But in doing so, all that's really going to happen is the same thing that the Oracle and Neo managed to create at the end of Revolutions. How do I know that? How do I know it'll be a very similar resolution? Because Resurrections is the exact same plot structure as the original film. If there's a Matrix 5, I'd be willing to bet that we'd see actual proof. This story keeps going the same way.

First Matrix movie: Thomas Anderson has an inkling that there's something insidious about his reality. A liberated Trinity shows up and wins his heart, helping set the stage for his desire to escape fake reality and set himself free. He's an anomaly who gains the power to conquer his oppressors and even learns to fly at the end.

Matrix Resurrections: Tiffany has an inkling that there's something insidious about her reality. A liberated Neo shows up and wins her heart, helping set the stage for her desire to escape fake reality and set herself free. She's an anomaly who gains the power to conquer her oppressors and even learns to fly at the end.

So then what happens? Well, the same thing all over again. An effort to create a better fake reality, and also a more peaceful co-existence between humans and machines. It's the exact same ****, where you get evolved people deciding the fate of the sheeple. And *that* is the underlying real-world desire of Lana Wachowski, and why I perceive it hypocritical to set it up by condemning the same basic thing (fundamentally speaking).

It's much like the hypocrisy of spending the first 30 minutes in the movie overtly crapping on modern Hollywood, then proceeding to follow the exact same playbook of someone like J.J. Abrams. And if you believe it wasn't hypocritical because of intentional irony being employed, then it's at least manipulative because of how it demeans an audience for wanting to consume it, and then proceeds to feed it to them (with a self-satisfying condescension). Yuck!

But make no mistake, I respect your view and understand what you're getting at. And I'm glad you enjoy this movie. On some levels, I do to. But I *really* hate the redundancy of it, and therefore the pointlessness of it. And yes, the hypocrisy that I perceive (and maybe that's just on me) bothers me a great deal. No matter what, always fun having these back-and-forths with you, my friend. Always appreciate reading your well-thought-out takes.