The Matrix 4

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The concept of freedom in a Matrix-like reality is something I could discuss for days; it's an itch that I wouldn't be able to scratch enough. But I have to try to keep this specifically about Matrix 4. Must. Show. Restraint. :gah:

The points you raise about people willingly choosing to remain in the Matrix (much like Cypher in the first movie) are the perfect examples to illustrate what I mean about the hypocrisy between the movie's plot and its preachy message. Those who would choose like Cypher are portrayed as a clear part of the problem. However, the solution ends up being to allow them their artificial lives, but with a "liberated" designer of their reality. Think about that.
I didn't see Cypher as being portrayed as part of the problem because he wanted to live in The Matrix. I saw him saw him as being part of the problem because he murdered his crewmates and was willing to sell out the entirety of Zion's population to get what he wanted.

To me Revolutions ended with the notion that people would get to choose whether they stayed in or left the Matrix with the Architect letting go of the ones who wanted to leave with no moral condemnation against those who chose to stay.
Wachowski spends time using dialogue from various characters to condemn the willingness of people to accept the inherent artifice of losing oneself in technology. The in-movie sheeple that the Analyst talks about are those who live in the Matrix and are most energized by manipulation. They're an obvious analog to the sheeple in our society who let themselves become slaves to the manipulations of social media and other tech. That's one of the main points of commentary. And I would say so far, so good with that commentary.
I saw the commentary as being more parallel to "so this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." I think there are different connotations to submitting to the world of the machines when the machines are oppressive villains than when they are neutral (Architect at the end of Revolutions) or benevolent (Neo and Trinity.)

In the same way that a monarchy or dictatorship isn't inherently wrong or evil neither do I see living in the environment of the Matrix (or at the mercy of technology), especially since there are sentient beings that reside there *and* it can be used as a means to make the real world a better place. Case in point, reverse engineering Matrix code into DNA for the purpose of growing fruit in the real world. So those who live in the Matrix can enjoy aspects of life not currently available in the real world while conducting research that benefits those who are unplugged.
But how does the actual plot play itself out in terms of solving the problem? By having Neo/Trinity decide how people should be *allowed* to live in the Matrix. From their point of view, they're being righteous in wanting to "free" people from being manipulated. But in doing so, all that's really going to happen is the same thing that the Oracle and Neo managed to create at the end of Revolutions.
Well yes and I believe that that's the point. Revolutions gave both sides peace and humans a choice and Neo and Trinity wanted to provide more of that. I don't see them being the overseers of that turning point as being any more wrong or hypocritical than the founding fathers of the U.S. deciding to create a divided government with checks and balances that allows everyone to live free of oppression while not technically free in *every* sense (like being able to commit crimes with no consequences and so forth.)

It's much like the hypocrisy of spending the first 30 minutes in the movie overtly crapping on modern Hollywood, then proceeding to follow the exact same playbook of someone like J.J. Abrams. And if you believe it wasn't hypocritical because of intentional irony being employed, then it's at least manipulative because of how it demeans an audience for wanting to consume it, and then proceeds to feed it to them (with a self-satisfying condescension). Yuck!
See I think that you're not giving the movie a fair shake in a way similar to those who wrote off TLJ as RJ and KK wanting to "let the past die" even though RJ specially said come on people it was the *villain* of the film who wanted that, not the heroes! So to apply that the Resurrections we need to consider who it was that was "demeaning the audience" and it was once again the villains! You know all the oppressive programs meant to keep Neo in check. Sati was the one voice of dissent at Binary and she didn't mock or demean the audience at all.

But make no mistake, I respect your view and understand what you're getting at. And I'm glad you enjoy this movie. On some levels, I do to. But I *really* hate the redundancy of it, and therefore the pointlessness of it. And yes, the hypocrisy that I perceive (and maybe that's just on me) bothers me a great deal. No matter what, always fun having these back-and-forths with you, my friend. Always appreciate reading your well-thought-out takes. :duff
Right back at you bud! :duff

And I can definitely understand feeling that the movie is redundant and pointless, especially given the arguable finality of Revolutions. But redundant or not I just enjoyed the movie so much on my second viewing which obviously is all that matters at the end of the day. And personally Revolutions' ending left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth with the weird open thread of Sati's supposed unfulfilled importance (which this film *did* fulfill) and the fact that it felt like a setup to a MMORPG (which IIRC it actually was.) So this movie even incorporating the story's evolution into a video game and then rising above that notion was something that I really appreciated.

You're definitely not alone in writing off this movie though. I don't think *anyone* on YouTube likes it. :lol

;)
 
I just enjoyed the movie so much on my second viewing


Damn Khev and his 2nd viewings.

He loves the ST... he loves Matrix 4... he's going down a path I cannot follow.

Next he'll love Bobe Fett episode 1. He'll shave his head and start wearing a white jumper.


Khev, please see Dune again. I want to be convinced that its a good movie.
 
Damn Khev and his 2nd viewings.

He loves the ST... he loves Matrix 4... he's going down a path I cannot follow.

Next he'll love Bobe Fett episode 1. He'll shave his head and start wearing a white jumper.
Actually Fett copied me on that one, lol.

Khev, please see Dune again. I want to be convinced that its a good movie.
I watched it a second time on HBO Max. Was very unhappy about the cropped aspect ratio at home. :mad:

I *so* wanted to love Dune after seeing BR 2049 and reading the novel. I pictured Villeneuve delivering a perfect combination of the OT and PT. But some of the choices he made were really quite baffling (ending where it did and no Feyd???)
 
Every time Khev brings up this movie just post pictures of your massive new Hulk statue as the response lol

By the way is that statue taking up all of your living room table lol
That thing is a beast!!!! Probably best statue I have ever purchased.. Thank the maker my wife thinks I won it in a raffle :lol
 
I have absolutely nothing against NWH but a somewhat unsettling aspect of that story is
the fact that Peter took it upon himself to let MJ be imprisoned by her own amnesia despite her pretty much begging him to find her and share with her their true history. It makes sense why Peter would do that because he's still a kid and at the same point that Tobey was at when he kept rejecting Kirsten MJ in SM1 and SM2 but it still really sucks for Zendaya MJ.

So I am glad that Resurrections gave us a more mature hero who decided that it wasn't his place to condemn Trinity to a form of happiness that was a betrayal of her true self.
I feel Peter did the mature thing. Keep the one you love more then anything out of danger even if that means you don’t get to be with them.

Not Neo…. Selfish bastard wanted her out of a perfectly good fantasy to be in that sucky real world :lol
 
I didn't see Cypher as being portrayed as part of the problem because he wanted to live in The Matrix. I saw him saw him as being part of the problem because he murdered his crewmates and was willing to sell out the entirety of Zion's population to get what he wanted.

To me Revolutions ended with the notion that people would get to choose whether they stayed in or left the Matrix with the Architect letting go of the ones who wanted to leave with no moral condemnation against those who chose to stay.

I saw the commentary as being more parallel to "so this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause." I think there are different connotations to submitting to the world of the machines when the machines are oppressive villains than when they are neutral (Architect at the end of Revolutions) or benevolent (Neo and Trinity.)

In the same way that a monarchy or dictatorship isn't inherently wrong or evil neither do I see living in the environment of the Matrix (or at the mercy of technology), especially since there are sentient beings that reside there *and* it can be used as a means to make the real world a better place. Case in point, reverse engineering Matrix code into DNA for the purpose of growing fruit in the real world. So those who live in the Matrix can enjoy aspects of life not currently available in the real world while conducting research that benefits those who are unplugged.

Well yes and I believe that that's the point. Revolutions gave both sides peace and humans a choice and Neo and Trinity wanted to provide more of that. I don't see them being the overseers of that turning point as being any more wrong or hypocritical than the founding fathers of the U.S. deciding to create a divided government with checks and balances that allows everyone to live free of oppression while not technically free in *every* sense (like being able to commit crimes with no consequences and so forth.)


See I think that you're not giving the movie a fair shake in a way similar to those who wrote off TLJ as RJ and KK wanting to "let the past die" even though RJ specially said come on people it was the *villain* of the film who wanted that, not the heroes! So to apply that the Resurrections we need to consider who it was that was "demeaning the audience" and it was once again the villains! You know all the oppressive programs meant to keep Neo in check. Sati was the one voice of dissent at Binary and she didn't mock or demean the audience at all.


Right back at you bud! :duff

And I can definitely understand feeling that the movie is redundant and pointless, especially given the arguable finality of Revolutions. But redundant or not I just enjoyed the movie so much on my second viewing which obviously is all that matters at the end of the day. And personally Revolutions' ending left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth with the weird open thread of Sati's supposed unfulfilled importance (which this film *did* fulfill) and the fact that it felt like a setup to a MMORPG (which IIRC it actually was.) So this movie even incorporating the story's evolution into a video game and then rising above that notion was something that I really appreciated.

You're definitely not alone in writing off this movie though. I don't think *anyone* on YouTube likes it. :lol

;)
 

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I feel Peter did the mature thing. Keep the one you love more then anything out of danger even if that means you don’t get to be with them.

Not Neo…. Selfish bastard wanted her out of a perfectly good fantasy to be in that sucky real world :lol
Ah so you hated Resurrections because the Analyst loses, lol.
 
Ah so you hated Resurrections because the Analyst loses, lol.
I like what’s his name in the first film…. Ignorance is bliss lol 😆

But I actually hated it because it was all the bad stuff from part 2 and 3 with none of the good stuff from any of the films

Oops my reply should have been
 

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If it's in deed the last Matrix film, then it's at least a good ending for Neo and Trinity.

I'm sure WB will bring back the Matrix one day. New actors, new cast, and new director.
 
Oh by the way the Matrix producers just said that the movie bombed so hard that there will never be another Matrix movie ever again lol
Well since I liked MR I'm glad it'll end on a high note. :yess:

And I prefer when good movies that don't need to be continued bomb (like Fury Road and BR 2049) so that they don't get dragged through the mud like Terminator, ALIEN, Predator and countless others.
 
Being in the Matrix of Matrix movies, this is only the first iteration. There at least 5 more different genders of directors out there to make their own trilogy and then ruin them. Truly a genius feat that is evolving and devolving at the same time. The Whackcowskis are just the beginning.
 
How do people think this one compares to the fourth films of other major franchises?

ALIEN: Resurrection (there's that word again, lol)
The Phantom Menace
Terminator Salvation
The Predator
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
KOTCS
Hobbit: AUJ
etc.
 
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