The next Batman movie approach.

[Azrael23]

Well, what's wrong with drastic? Killing off Ras Al Ghul and Two-Face wasn't too drastic even though they both have bigger plotlines in the comics. Robin was created following the hype of Disney's Peter Pan. That doesn't fit this gritty modern day Gotham IMO. I would rather not have Robin at all. I assume Mattel is going to start applying pressure to have more characters for more toys. TDKs main stream toy line was weak at best. So if you have to have Robin, at least make him respectable because the whole circus/Peter Pan thing is outdated. He needs an updated origin.
Speaking of Batgirl, she's, what, six in this movie? So Batman is in his mid 40's when Batgirl appears?
And actually, changing Batgirl to ALfred's neice didn't bother me near as much as the pop-out ice skates on the batsuit and Bane's characterization did.

I'm not sure that your examples of killing off villains in the film medium classify as drastic changes, I mean these are two distinct mediums because within a comic forum a villain/hero has the room and capability to be explored and evolve, in a cinematic setting its very much limited. IMO they shouldn't shoehorn a Nightwing character in before having him be Robin first, which would be the starting point in this.

Robin's reason for existing is irrelevant, what is relevant however, whether you like the character or not is the fact that he is part of the Batman mythos.
There has been 3 distinct Robin's so I'm not sure I follow if any needs an updated origin. Assuming you're referring to Grayson's Robin his origin is fine the way it is, the point of Batman is that its suppose to be timeless so how can it really be outdated? There is nothing wrong with keeping his circus background, its part of who he is and the way that Robin (TD) is depicted today would mesh with the gritty tone of TDK, it just needs a director capable of executing it properly.

I'm not even going to comment about B&R, that movie was plain terrible, I mean it did give me a few laughs and chuckles, but overall they got almost
everything and everyone wrong.

 

[Ven]

I didn't know they had a chick in TDK...

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

I didn't know they had a chick in TDK...

You wont regret it! (Best comic ever imo)

EDIT just realized I may have been way off track here -- im talking about robin in the comic...

 

[james1976]

I'm not sure that your examples of killing off villains in the film medium classify as drastic changes, I mean these are two distinct mediums because within a comic forum a villain/hero has the room and capability to be explored and evolve, in a cinematic setting its very much limited. IMO they shouldn't shoehorn a Nightwing character in before having him be Robin first, which would be the starting point in this.

Robin's reason for existing is irrelevant, what is relevant however, whether you like the character or not is the fact that he is part of the Batman mythos.
There has been 3 distinct Robin's so I'm not sure I follow if any needs an updated origin. Assuming you're referring to Grayson's Robin his origin is fine the way it is, the point of Batman is that its suppose to be timeless so how can it really be outdated? There is nothing wrong with keeping his circus background, its part of who he is and the way that Robin (TD) is depicted today would mesh with the gritty tone of TDK, it just needs a director capable of executing it properly.

I'm not even going to comment about B&R, that movie was plain terrible, I mean it did give me a few laughs and chuckles, but overall they got almost
everything and everyone wrong.

I feel like I haven't made myself clear. I'm all for excluding Robin in the Batman franchise. I just wanted to think of a way you could introduce Robin into this realistic world Nolan has created.
I think a character's reason for existing IS important and just because they exist in the mythos in comics doesn't mean they have to exist that way in film or at all. Do we really want to see Ace the Bathound or Bat-mite or Tweedledee and Tweedledum? I feel like BECAUSE these are two different forums you can make changes. Was anyone screaming in 1989 when Harvey Dent was black? Or that Dent's backstory is completely different in TDK? I would've liked to have seen the Holiday killer, but I still loved TDK anyway.
In summation, lose Robin and the franchise will continue on strong.

 

[Azrael23]

I feel like I haven't made myself clear. I'm all for excluding Robin in the Batman franchise. I just wanted to think of a way you could introduce Robin into this realistic world Nolan has created.
I think a character's reason for existing IS important and just because they exist in the mythos in comics doesn't mean they have to exist that way in film or at all. Do we really want to see Ace the Bathound or Bat-mite or Tweedledee and Tweedledum? I feel like BECAUSE these are two different forums you can make changes. Was anyone screaming in 1989 when Harvey Dent was black? Or that Dent's backstory is completely different in TDK? I would've liked to have seen the Holiday killer, but I still loved TDK anyway.
In summation, lose Robin and the franchise will continue on strong.

You've made yourself perfectly clear, I'm just trying to get you to hear mines. The difference between Robin, Bathound and Bat-Mite is the fact that Robin is still actually around and is in current use, which shows you that Robin has alot more potential than you give him credit for. You see him as a Peter Pan sidekick rip off when infact over the past few years the character of Robin has gotten far more compelling than he ever was since his introduction. Not only has Grayson progressed beyond Robin and grew into his own man as Nightwing, but Tim Drake has redefined Robin. So there is no point of having Nightwing before Robin, unless its a new character altogether and ignoring Nightwing's background as Robin doesn't make Nolan's world anymore realistic than it already is, because its heighten realism, which means its still geared in fantasy Nolan's Batman isn't realism in the absolute sense.

No offense but it seems as if you're deviating from the main point, because what exactly does Harvey Dent's depiction in Batman 89 by Billy Dee Williams who was later replaced anyways with Tommy Lee Jones have to do with the possibility of Robin in any future Batman adaptation? Nothing at all. Not to mention Robin's absence wouldn't necessarily make the franchise intrinsically strong, a good and compelling story and characterization is what makes franchises strong. Robin's introduction wasn't what derailed the original franchise it was the fact that it became campier as the series progressed and it went from dark to light, introducing alot of characters and side-kicks didn't help matters either. At some point Robin is going to resurface in Batman cinema, he's part of the mythos whether you like him or not, but that doesn't mean the franchise will be intrinsically weakened when he does appear and there is nothing wrong with keeping an open mind concerning the possibilities of re-exploring his character.

 

[Darklord Dave]

The ^^^^ Grayson character as DC has developed him is one of the better comic characters out there. But could Grayson's "Robin" be integrated into the Nolan world?

I do think that the circus is outdated - but the Graysons could be extreme sports stars - rock climbing, base jumping, skateboarding, motocross, etc. The parents are killed for rejecting an endorsement deal from mega-mogul Pamela Isley's new energy drink Chloro Fill. Bruce takes in the orphaned teen (15) ^^^^ Grayson since he had sponsored the extreme sports team.

Grayson, being a resourceful little brat, discovers Bruce's secret and follows him out one night and ends up saving his life.

We wouldn't necessarily see him as Robin, but I can see ^^^^ Grayson fitting in okay.

 

[Azrael23]

The ^^^^ Grayson character as DC has developed him is one of the better comic characters out there. But could Grayson's "Robin" be integrated into the Nolan world?

I do think that the circus is outdated - but the Graysons could be extreme sports stars - rock climbing, base jumping, skateboarding, motocross, etc. The parents are killed for rejecting an endorsement deal from mega-mogul Pamela Isley's new energy drink Chloro Fill. Bruce takes in the orphaned teen (15) ^^^^ Grayson since he had sponsored the extreme sports team.

Grayson, being a resourceful little brat, discovers Bruce's secret and follows him out one night and ends up saving his life.

We wouldn't necessarily see him as Robin, but I can see ^^^^ Grayson fitting in okay.

But one thing people are not considering is the fact that Batman is timeless, so while for us the circus may be outdated it wouldn't really apply to something like Batman's world. One thing I've notice is that ever since Nolan took this heighten realism approach people are now throwing practically everything out of the window that they perceive wouldn't fit. The trick to making Robin work is giving him an edge and mixing him with all 3 Robins, so while he wouldn't work as a kid he would work as a young adult that still needs some guidance.

And I do agree that Grayson has very much evolved over the years and I would personally love to see a solo Nightwing film, perhaps they could team him up with Bale's Batman and sorta imply that Bruce trained him and that he was at one point by his side fighting crime years ago without actually exploring it in great detail.

If Nolan ever did Robin putting him in a costume like this would work IMO and its probably one of the better looking Robin concepts.

https://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmanandrobinconceptbywd9.jpg

That being said I did like your extreme sports take and the endorsement deal and energy drink Chloro Fill and all that.

 

[freestylex06x]

i like the concept of robin in the comics and cartoons but i want to see more inner conflict within the movie batman of being truly alone now except for alfred, fox, and gordon. i would like to see him in the next movie really be in a dark inner place of being isolated with the loss of rachel and dent. Nolan's take seems to portraying wayne as a lone wolf who now realizes his life is gone because batman. i personally want to see him overcome everything alone and it seems unrealistic to train a boy or teenager in one movie to become around batman's skill level unless Nolan puts in a big timeskip. On a side note, what are your feelings on a timeskip and Batman Beyond type movie? Seems like it would be interesting and a good way to incorporate a Robin/Nightwing persona without having a "sidekick" and just taking over.

 

[Sachiel]

I think the "time-skip" movie most people want is "The Dark Knight Returns".

 

[Azrael23]

i like the concept of robin in the comics and cartoons but i want to see more inner conflict within the movie batman of being truly alone now except for alfred, fox, and gordon. i would like to see him in the next movie really be in a dark inner place of being isolated with the loss of rachel and dent. Nolan's take seems to portraying wayne as a lone wolf who now realizes his life is gone because batman. i personally want to see him overcome everything alone and it seems unrealistic to train a boy or teenager in one movie to become around batman's skill level unless Nolan puts in a big timeskip.

A time skip is what I would be expecting if Robin ever came along, he would have to evolve over the course of 2-3 films and even then he still wouldn't be on Batman's level which he technically isn't within the comics. But if he was introduced as a 12 year old and was in training for 5-6 years becoming Robin at 17/18 years of age then he would be good enough to fight alongside Batman while still learning, so Batman would still be a lone wolf up until that point.

On a side note, what are your feelings on a timeskip and Batman Beyond type movie? Seems like it would be interesting and a good way to incorporate a Robin/Nightwing persona without having a "sidekick" and just taking over.

A time skip is the best route, thats one thing I didn't like about Batman Forever. For one reason Grayson was far to old at that time and he becomes Robin by the very end. Since Nolan seems to focus on his characters inner struggles and relationships that should be the main focus of Grayson as a child, introducing Grayson with the prospect of him one day possibly taking over. And personally I would actually love a Batman Beyond film. I would love several faithful adaptations of various points in Batman's career.

 

[james1976]

For me, the beauty of this current batch of superhero movies is that they are grounded in reality. It's not the entire Marvel/DC universe; it's "what would it be like if Spiderman lived in New York today?" or "How could Batman function today?" The minute a single man adopts a recently orphaned boy and enlists him to fight crime, I lose interest. I can't see it happening no matter how similar their backgrounds. Now, if they wanted to use Carrie Kelly's story with the parents who neglect her, I don't have as big of an issue with that. But mostly the thought of a child fighting along side Bale's Batman makes me cringe. For the record, I hate Bucky, too.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I agree that the concept and character of "Batman" is timeless, but the expression of that concept needs to be set in the modern era to be acceptable to the great unwashed movie-going audience.

Circuses just aren't in the public eye in anymore. Ask a 12 year old if they want to go to the circus and they'll either laugh or think you mean cirque de soleil.

 

[Azrael23]

I agree that the concept and character of "Batman" is timeless, but the expression of that concept needs to be set in the modern era to be acceptable to the great unwashed movie-going audience.

Circuses just aren't in the public eye in anymore. Ask a 12 year old if they want to go to the circus and they'll either laugh or think you mean cirque de soleil.

Even though the circus is no longer in the public eye, it still exist nonetheless.
IMO as far as Grayson's Robin is concerned he doesn't need altering, I mean its not as if his circus background is going to be a huge factor in the overall story, so why alter the traditional background to conform to today's audience? Especially if that background gives us a launching pad to Grayson's natural talent as an acrobat, at the age he's introduced he would
have already surpassed Bruce when he was 12. Ultimately his backstory is a means to an end and even though not to many kids go to the circus nowadays they still know what one is.

 

[james1976]

Shockingly, I disagree. The circus is a big part of who Robin is. He comes from circus folk -- one step up from the meth addicts who work the state fair.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Even though the circus is no longer in the public eye, it still exist nonetheless.
IMO as far as Grayson's Robin is concerned he doesn't need altering, I mean its not as if his circus background is going to be a huge factor in the overall story, so why alter the traditional background to conform to today's audience? Especially if that background gives us a launching pad to Grayson's natural talent as an acrobat, at the age he's introduced he would
have already surpassed Bruce when he was 12. Ultimately his backstory is a means to an end and even though not to many kids go to the circus nowadays they still know what one is.

With child labor laws nowadays, even if he came from a circus he wouldn't be allowed to be a trapeze artist. My pitch was that you can give him pre-existing skills and it doesn't have to be from a circus. He could be an Olympic gymnast. But he does have to have pre-existing skills if he's going to keep up with Batman after just a year or two of training.

 

[Azrael23]

Shockingly, I disagree. The circus is a big part of who Robin is. He comes from circus folk -- one step up from the meth addicts who work the state fair.

Meth addicts?......

 

[Azrael23]

With child labor laws nowadays, even if he came from a circus he wouldn't be allowed to be a trapeze artist. My pitch was that you can give him pre-existing skills and it doesn't have to be from a circus. He could be an Olympic gymnast. But he does have to have pre-existing skills if he's going to keep up with Batman after just a year or two of training.

IMO his circus background should be kept, I'm not even going to require that Batman's world follow the same rules as our own, it is afterall, regardless of
how realistic the approach based off a comic book, therefore many movie goers need to just accept it and allow their imagination to take over. As far as his training is concerned it should be for atleast 5-6 years, because he would still be to young and inexperienced to even take to the streets with Batman. Joel Schumacher may catch hell for his terrible adaptations of Batman but he did understand that Robin needed to be older with an edge to actually work on film.

 

[Batty]

There's a new LA Times interview with Nolan.

https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/10/christopher-nol.html

 

[cerealkeller]

I guess it's up to Goyer and Jonathan Nolan to get Chris to come back. Hope they find a good hook to get him interested in the story again. I still don't get how he hasn't thought about a future installment when he ended the film with Batman taking on the blame of murder and Gordon smashing the Batsignal. I can see him being like "We'll tackle that in the third", but to say he hasn't given it any thought is puzzling to me.

 

[Seditionary]

I love the dark knight, so much so that I can hardly watch Batman Begins anymore...although I love that movie and his has some wonderful moments. Although Batman kicked a ^^^^ ton of ass and was always busy in the Dark knight, I can sort of agree that he got the backseat to some of the plot. No big deal for me as I enjoy every character...

But
All I'd really wanna see in the next batman movie would be some more absolutely batman moments. The things I think about when I think about a Batman story...Lots of rooftops, going out on patrol of his city, beating up small time crooks as well as the big ones, getting down and dirty and getting more bruises, talking about his parents and his vow to gotham city in a bale narration would be incredible, feeling responsible/down in the dumps over the villains that flock to his city.

I honestly don't even really care about what villains or characters are added...I don't think the Joker can ever be topped as far as Batmans most classic, and most wanted to be seen, relationship. There is so much more batman they could capture and it could be incredible.

If they threw in arkham and any sort of nod to the joker, scarecrow, zsasz, even flass or falcone, I'd probably ^^^^ myself.

I think there is so many really good places they could go with it. It can be the first good third movie in a trilogy.