Thesis: "Temple Of Doom" is over-hated and under-appreciated

[The Josh]

I think it's interesting that TOD was so dark because Lucas came up with the story and it went it to production when his wife left him for the young Ranch hand and filed for Divorce. I'd say it was easy for him to be in a pretty dark place at the time.

Yeah, that might help it be a tad darker. Surprised he didn't write his wife in so how to get her heart pulled out.

 

[Darth Madden]

I saw TOD about 8 times in the theater when I was a kid and now I look back and think "just how stupid was I?" For me its a very distant 3rd in the series. The kid, the girl and the story is just so weird and unbelievable for me I have a difficult time seeing it any other way than crap... a glowing rock... UGH.

 

[IrishJedi]

I saw TOD about 8 times in the theater when I was a kid and now I look back and think "just how stupid was I?" For me its a very distant 3rd in the series. The kid, the girl and the story is just so weird and unbelievable for me I have a difficult time seeing it any other way than crap.

:emperor

 

[Khev]

Also, there may not be a shot in the history of cinema more bad ass than the one of Indy standing tall after punching a Thugee across the gravel just before he, Short Round and Willie begin freeing the slave children. And it comes with the requisite John Williams music that inspires you to want to pummel a cultist yourself.

Its great to see so many people voicing my sentiments about TOD. Always loved that movie, even if it wasn't technically as "good" as Raiders. Agree 100% about the pulp serial adventure in TOD, plus as a kid (5th or 6th grade I think) I really got into that one series of "Choose Your Own Adventure" type books where you're a kid who goes on adventures with Indiana Jones. Who knows what those books would be like to read now, but back then they were great. I think the one where you go to Transylvania and encounter Dracula with Indy was my favorite. TOD, with Short Round and all, was the closest to those books I connected with and, in addition to all the reasons listed above, will always have a special coolnesss because of it.

 

[gatchatom]

Great thread. I Love Raiders. It's my all time favorite movie. There isn't a single frame I would change in any way. I can't think of another movie I feel that way about. Empire is a close second. Even as a kid I loved Temple of Doom. The bugs, the blood, Mola Rom's crazy skull hat, Indy's interaction with Short Round. Indy was at his anti-hero best. Still, I couldn't put my finger on it as a kid but there was something about it that didn't quite ring as "true" as Raiders but I still loved it. The stakes weren't quite as high. The fate of the free world wasn't up for grabs. What Temple of Doom has that I think even Raiders lacks is the pure visual spectacle. From the Musical opening number to the human sacrifice in the lava pit to the dizzying mine car chase, TOD was packed full of amazing visuals.
Last Crusade is almost unwatchable to me. I'd put it on the same level as the Star Wars Holiday Special. It's a pale, soulless imitation of Raiders. The unconvincing sets, the hokey, forced humor, ugh. For me the only bright spot is the opening sequence with River Phoenix and the dissolve into Ford's bloodied grinning face. After that, I'd rather watch Tales of the Gold Monkey.

 

[Mudshark]

I absolutely loved Temple of Doom! I've always tried to consider each Indy movie on its own, not which one was better than the other. I think Lucas tried to do different things in each one. TOD was the "exotic adventure in the far east" installment, filled with strange and unfamiliar characters and places. Loaded with intentionally humorous clichès and stereotypes. It reminded me of the old serial shorts that used to play between feature films back in the day when you got two movies for the price of one. I read a long time ago that Lucas was a big fan of serials when he was young and that's what inspired him to make Indiana Jones in the first place.

When I went to see TOD I must've expected to see another movie like Raiders, too. But instead I found TOD was a mile-a-minute roller-coaster ride, jam packed with edge-of-your-seat excitement... real Saturday matinee fare. It was pure fun! And it was absolutely loaded with classic Indyisms. In fact, some of the funniest Indy lines and facial expressions of all time are from that movie, and for that reason alone it will always be one of my personal favorites. Alternate title: "Indiana Jones and the Finger of Doom".

 

[The Mike]

Huh....interesting thread.....its started a bit pompous and predictably so but some interesting points have been made here on both sides of the fence. For what its worth, I actually never viewed the Indiana Jones trilogy as separate films even though there are a couple of continuity errors I view them as one really long film and love them all....same goes with the original Star Wars trilogy. Not so much the prequels I could do without a lot of the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones and in reality you could probably have taken the best parts of both films and mixed into one mega film gone with Revenge of the Sith and then given us a real Episode III, Star Wars: The Jedi Purge.....but that's neither here nor there....

 

[Mudshark]

This thread caught my attention and I decided to leave my two cents, but I'll go back to the beginning and read through some of the other comments when I get a chance. And if I happened to have mentioned something that was already covered, my humble apologies, it wasn't intentional.

 

[Deak Starkiller]

Awesome idea for a thread IJ, I am glad there is an Indy forum now and that there are some cool discussions about one of the coolest movies of all time! TOD is great, yeah I know GL let his wacky college buddies write the film but you still have to appreciate the significant differences between this and the other films. I love the fact that this chapter stands out from the others and that it is a little darker, so was Empire "if you remember right". Thread rated

 

[JAWS]

Last Crusade is almost unwatchable to me. I'd put it on the same level as the Star Wars Holiday Special. It's a pale, soulless imitation of Raiders. The unconvincing sets, the hokey, forced humor, ugh. For me the only bright spot is the opening sequence with River Phoenix and the dissolve into Ford's bloodied grinning face. After that, I'd rather watch Tales of the Gold Monkey.

Yep I agree. Last Crusade is a pretty poor and sloppy film.


TOD is still a fun film to watch IMO. A guilty pleasure? Yes. But still a pleasure.

Raiders is by far the best.

 

[Seretur]

I love the IJ films in this order:

Raiders of the Lost Ark -- UTTER PERFECTION. Best adventure movie ever made, a paragon of the genre, a masterpiece on par with anything.

The Temple of Doom -- AMAZING, and all the more so because it owes nothing to Raiders except for Indy himself. What a way to open the universe of the series and do a completely unique story! Also, there has never been a film that makes me hyperventilate more. Its final half hour is still an unsurpassed thrill ride. And it's dark, dark, dark -- Indy spends half the film drugged -- which is precisely why Willie and Shorty WORK.

The Last Crusade -- FUN, but also grasping at straws. Riding on the coattails of Raiders, but putting more emphasis on the father-son story made it its own beast. Much more mainstream than the previous two, and the least inspiring film in the series. Also, it features the only SW-style wipe-cut in the series, which is incongruous.

The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull -- At barely a minute (of new footage) long, the shortest in the series yet! But seems to be a fresher take on the IJ universe than TLC, which is a great thing.

 

[Sachiel]

I think this one was my favorite as a kid. Didn't watch Crusade much. It stuck with me the most for reasons already stated.

I need to buy the DVD set. I feel ashamed that I didn't buy it when it first came out. I forgot the last time I saw any of these movies.

I wish I bought the hat and whip at MGM Studios! That was such a cool attraction. We were at the top but could feel the heat from the fire blasts like we were right next to them.

 

[Captain Britain]

I think it had some great action sequences in it but generally the story is badly structured and prmoised more than it delivered (I thought it was leading up to an appearance by Kali!). Then there's that loooooong period between the life raft arriving in India and the mine car chase where all we have in the way of kick-ass action sequences is one fight and the spike chamber scene. The action in Raiders was much more evenly distributed across the movie (in Last Crusade by contrast it was packed in and never allowed to develop properly).

But the thing I really loved about Doom is the look of the film - the production design and costumes. The Hasbro press release for Toy Fair says that in the basic figure line ALL FOUR films will be covered. Hope we get a Thugee, Mola Ram, and Indy in tux!

 

[MadCow]

The Hasbro press release for Toy Fair says that in the basic figure line ALL FOUR films will be covered. Hope we get a Thugee, Mola Ram, and Indy in tux!

I will crap apples if that happens. TOD has always been my favorite Indy flick. To me it's so dark and twisted, I love it. It really never gets the attention it deserves...

 

[doesitmatter]

I agree with most here. RAIDERS is my favorite movie of all time. It's perfect. Han Solo was my favorite Star Wars character and here was a movie that was all Harrison Ford! It's one movie I could watch every single day of my life and the first movie I out in my video ipod.

The sequels are good movies but they simply don't live up to the first. But Crusade is fun and familiar while Temple is creepy and odd. Which is why I like Crusade more.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Temple is Awesome, nuff said. Raiders is still the best, but damn... Temple is close to being right up there with it IMO. Crusade was nice and cute, but Temple was much better. I love that movie.

 

[galactiboy]

Totally agree with you on that Josh... its a great sequel and it was cool that it didn't retread over the first film. I enjoyed it when I was a kid and still do now. Crusade, not as much. A solid film, but just doesn't have the same magic IMO.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Indy is an adventurer. He wasn't in TOD. Instead, he stumbles into a situation, and being a good guy, fixes it, but I hated the way the story was designed. There's no research, there's no archeology, there's no need for him to figure anything out. It's a generic action story, and you could have swapped any hero or superhero into Indie's place and it would have been the same thing.

The reason I love Raiders and Crusade is that the story style fits Indy - TOD doesn't.

 

[Seretur]

Mmm, I'm not sure I agree there, Michael.

Sure, any decent person would have tried to free the slave children -- but that's only a part of the issue. The much bigger quest Indy faces is the one between his desire for personal gratification (fortune and glory!) and the need to do what's right for the people as a whole. Initially, he justifies that his reason for setting out on the quest is archaeological -- getting the Sankara stones -- but his hellish ordeal teaches him that there are virtues and values beyond the collecting of the artefacts.

In a way, Indy grows in this movie into someone who is able to let go of the Ark a year later (not because the Government takes it away from him, but because he's able to shut its eyes to its wonders); I suspect this is the reason they made this film a prequel. And besides, the entire journey from the waste land to a land of plenty has high mythological overtones that set this entry apart. TLC also had a motif of a mythical quest, but that one was played through a father-son relationship, and lacked any external correlative.

I have a hunch that TTOD is closer to Lucas' idea of a proper Indiana Jones story than either of the two existing films, being all Jungian. I'm curious to see how much of that we get in TKOTCS...

 

[EVILFACE]

Indy is an adventurer. He wasn't in TOD. Instead, he stumbles into a situation, and being a good guy, fixes it, but I hated the way the story was designed. There's no research, there's no archeology, there's no need for him to figure anything out. It's a generic action story, and you could have swapped any hero or superhero into Indie's place and it would have been the same thing.

The reason I love Raiders and Crusade is that the story style fits Indy - TOD doesn't.

So you wouldn't call anything that happened in TOD a adventure? He did quite a few adventurous things and most of all was a HERO.