Thor: Ragnarok (November 3rd, 2017)

[jye4ever]

It's actually pretty painful to watch...if you're a WB employee that is lol, there are articles popping up everywhere on how the trailer proves that their done over at WB.

 

[karamazov80]

It's pretty much what I expected from Snyder/WB, though with a few additional cringe-worthy moments courtesy of Frat-quaMan. But maybe that's the demographic they really need to get them over the hump?

 

[loki2371]

It's pretty much what I expected from Snyder/WB, though with a few additional cringe-worthy moments courtesy of Frat-quaMan. But maybe that's the demographic they really need to get them over the hump?

I think I'm done with and given up on DC/WB. BvS for me was terrible (although I enjoyed MOS) as was SS although better than the previous. Wonder Woman looks laughable, won't go see it. And after just watching the JL trailer last night I felt like i was watching a trailer for another Watchmen movie with cameos from the JL. I loved 300 and Watchmen, but that is so not the right tone for these movies. Everything Snyder makes is the exact same. Dark and Dreary. Super Hero movies should be hopeful and uplifting. He should've begged Todd McFarlane to let him direct a Spawn movie. That he'd be a great director for, not these...

 

[karamazov80]

Yes, Youngblood/Spawn: the Movie would be a great fit for Snyder. In fact, I think he would be great for the proposed X-Force movie! Because he is so X-TREME, seemingly pulled right out of 1992! He really is the Rob Liefeld of comic films, for better or worse.

 

[moose]

I think I'm done with and given up on DC/WB. BvS for me was terrible (although I enjoyed MOS) as was SS although better than the previous. Wonder Woman looks laughable, won't go see it. And after just watching the JL trailer last night I felt like i was watching a trailer for another Watchmen movie with cameos from the JL. I loved 300 and Watchmen, but that is so not the right tone for these movies. Everything Snyder makes is the exact same. Dark and Dreary. Super Hero movies should be hopeful and uplifting. He should've begged Todd McFarlane to let him direct a Spawn movie. That he'd be a great director for, not these...

Hopeful and uplifting I beg to differ they should be entertaining and that can be done in a number of ways. You realize if every comic book is basicly what you mentioned the movies will suffer from fatigue look at the success that Logan has made make a good movie it's does not need a specific formula. Good story well acted and directed and people will show up.

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[loki2371]

Hopeful and uplifting I beg to differ they should be entertaining and that can be done in a number of ways. You realize if every comic book is basicly what you mentioned the movies will suffer from fatigue look at the success that Logan has made make a good movie it's does not need a specific formula. Good story well acted and directed and people will show up.

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Movies should be based on the characters they are actually portraying. I did not mean to imply ALL comic book movies should be hopeful and uplifting.

Batman, fine with dark and dreary in his solo outings. That's why the 2 Burton films were good as well as the Nolan films. That's the Batman most people know and love.. Logan/Wolverine is representing the character correctly, that's why it works. Same reason Deadpool was a hit.

Superman, Wonder Woman & Flash? Not so much. Those characters are meant to be bright, hopeful and instill feelings of joy, not wanting to make you brood in a corner crying. Not too many comic books portraying these characters in that light. The occasional Elseworlds stories? Awesome and cool and different takes on the characters we know and love.. In main story lines, no thanks.

DC/WB has the best animated shows ever. Batman TAS, Superman TAS,JL & JLU. Why? Because the characterization was pretty much spot on, and the series were well written by passionate people/fans.

The whole reason Batman & Superman work together is the balance they bring to each other. The light & Dark, the Yin & Yang. That won't work if both are dark, dreary and depressing. Imagine Batman being a happy go lucky hero like Superman. What fun would it be seeing the 2 of them together? Batmans dynamic worked so well in the animated JL & JLU cause he was the gritty grounded realisitic character keeping these larger than life god like beings in check and from making mistakes. Otherwise has no purpose in being there other than paying for everything.

 

[moose]

Movies should be based on the characters they are actually portraying. I did not mean to imply ALL comic book movies should be hopeful and uplifting.

Batman, fine with dark and dreary in his solo outings. That's why the 2 Burton films were good as well as the Nolan films. That's the Batman most people know and love.. Logan/Wolverine is representing the character correctly, that's why it works. Same reason Deadpool was a hit.

Superman, Wonder Woman & Flash? Not so much. Those characters are meant to be bright, hopeful and instill feelings of joy, not wanting to make you brood in a corner crying. Not too many comic books portraying these characters in that light. The occasional Elseworlds stories? Awesome and cool and different takes on the characters we know and love.. In main story lines, no thanks.

DC/WB has the best animated shows ever. Batman TAS, Superman TAS,JL & JLU. Why? Because the characterization was pretty much spot on, and the series were well written by passionate people/fans.

The whole reason Batman & Superman work together is the balance they bring to each other. The light & Dark, the Yin & Yang. That won't work if both are dark, dreary and depressing. Imagine Batman being a happy go lucky hero like Superman. What fun would it be seeing the 2 of them together? Batmans dynamic worked so well in the animated JL & JLU cause he was the gritty grounded realisitic character keeping these larger than life god like beings in check and from making mistakes. Otherwise has no purpose in being there other than paying for everything.

I want a good movie and I have no problems with the reinterpretation as long as the end product is a good narrative . With in the context of BvS I thought the characters were portrayed well in given the criumstances they found themselves in and how the outside world was reacting to him. I and a huge fan of MoS and I really like the ultimate cut of BvS.

I think comic book shows and movies are quickly reaching a point of saturation and they will need to differentiate themselves or else they will become generic. I always though superman was too much of a boy scout I always felt he needed an edge and thankfully they gave him one.

My biggest complaints about marvel movies is that I feel nothing after I watch them . No depth happy or lucky and off to the next one no consequences for any actions they are nicely resolves just in time for the next installment. There movies feel generic and repetive.

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[loki2371]

I want a good movie and I have no problems with the reinterpretation as long as the end product is a good narrative . With in the context of BvS I thought the characters were portrayed well in given the criumstances they found themselves in and how the outside world was reacting to him. I and a huge fan of MoS and I really like the ultimate cut of BvS.

I think comic book shows and movies are quickly reaching a point of saturation and they will need to differentiate themselves or else they will become generic. I always though superman was too much of a boy scout I always felt he needed an edge and thankfully they gave him one.

My biggest complaints about marvel movies is that I feel nothing after I watch them . No depth happy or lucky and off to the next one no consequences for any actions they are nicely resolves just in time for the next installment. There movies feel generic and repetive.

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I agree to an extent that the movies need to evolve a bit before becoming cookie cutter, repetitive and generic. But you can do that through good storytelling, not by altering the characters personalities or core selves. That's why Marvel is successful.

I enjoyed MOS because it was different. But ultimately Snyder didn't evolve himself, the character, or the story. BvS was more the same. Your example of boring and generic. Snyder doesn't know how to do anything different other than what he does. Which works with some movies/characters, but not with all. I liked Clark's turmoil growing up in a world he knew would be afraid of him, would possibly reject him, and not accept him. The problem was, the ending had an uplifting feel, where he decided to show the world who he was, the protector of humanity he wanted to be, and that he felt more Human than Kryptonian. He killed a fellow Kryptonian to save a human family. If that wasn't proof of his loyalty to the world, what would be? Most the world should've embraced him but of course there would always be those who rejected and feared him. Superman never let that cloud his judgement to do what he knew was right.

And as far as character, he's supposed to be a boyscout, a Captain America if have you. Imagine if Marvel made Captain America this way. More like Stark. He wouldn't have worked either. DC didn't believe the boyscout Superman the world knew for 75 years worked anymore. I do believe Marvel proved them wrong as Captain America is probably the 2nd most liked character in the MCU behind Iron Man.

The ending of MOS could've been the perfect segue into BvS, to make him the Superman we know and love. That he felt he was doing more good than harm, that more people around the world embraced and rejoiced to having him in it. The ending scene was bright with the sun shining with him telling the General the US military won't control him, but also don't need to fear him. The giddy army girl was perfect. We could have then had the Superman the fans around the world know and love in BvS, evolving from the events of MOS. Instead we get the same scared Clark we were introduced to before coming out to the world. His foils being Lex not trusting him and Batman not trusting him was fine. But the the general population should have adored him. The scene with the woman looking to him as a savior as he was about rescue her from a flood is an example. He looked at her like she was a pathetic creature and he was disappointed, rather than being happy to help and have purpose. And that's exactly the tone the musical score implied as well. Same with him saving the space shuttle launch, that whole montage was pathetic.

Let Batman be the dark brooding hero, not Superman. He should be smiling most of the time. There was no need for him to have to sacrifice AGAIN at the end of BvS by dying to save humanity. Too much of the same and too soon. We just saw the same in MOS!! Doomsday should've been a story down the road as a stand alone Superman movie with some cameos from other characters to help like Marvel does. Not a JL storyline and tying him to Lex as his creator....

 

[moose]

I agree to an extent that the movies need to evolve a bit before becoming cookie cutter, repetitive and generic. But you can do that through good storytelling, not by altering the characters personalities or core selves. That's why Marvel is successful.

I enjoyed MOS because it was different. But ultimately Snyder didn't evolve himself, the character, or the story. BvS was more the same. Your example of boring and generic. Snyder doesn't know how to do anything different other than what he does. Which works with some movies/characters, but not with all. I liked Clark's turmoil growing up in a world he knew would be afraid of him, would possibly reject him, and not accept him. The problem was, the ending had an uplifting feel, where he decided to show the world who he was, the protector of humanity he wanted to be, and that he felt more Human than Kryptonian. He killed a fellow Kryptonian to save a human family. If that wasn't proof of his loyalty to the world, what would be? Most the world should've embraced him but of course there would always be those who rejected and feared him. Superman never let that cloud his judgement to do what he knew was right.

And as far as character, he's supposed to be a boyscout, a Captain America if have you. Imagine if Marvel made Captain America this way. More like Stark. He wouldn't have worked either. DC didn't believe the boyscout Superman the world knew for 75 years worked anymore. I do believe Marvel proved them wrong as Captain America is probably the 2nd most liked character in the MCU behind Iron Man.

The ending of MOS could've been the perfect segue into BvS, to make him the Superman we know and love. That he felt he was doing more good than harm, that more people around the world embraced and rejoiced to having him in it. The ending scene was bright with the sun shining with him telling the General the US military won't control him, but also don't need to fear him. The giddy army girl was perfect. We could have then had the Superman the fans around the world know and love in BvS, evolving from the events of MOS. Instead we get the same scared Clark we were introduced to before coming out to the world. His foils being Lex not trusting him and Batman not trusting him was fine. But the the general population should have adored him. The scene with the woman looking to him as a savior as he was about rescu her from a flood is an example. He looked at her like she was a pathetic creature and he was disappointed, rather than being happy to help and have purpose. And that's exactly the tone the musical score implied as well.

Let Batman be the dark brooding hero, not Superman. He should be smiling most of the time. There was no need for him to have to sacrifice AGAIN at the end of BvS by dying to save humanity. Too much of the same and too soon. We just saw the same in MOS!! Doomsday should've been a story down the road as a stand alone Superman movie with some cameos from other characters to help like Marvel does. Not a JL storyline and tying him to Lex as his creator....

Well if you don't like superman's dipiction in BvS they you may really hate him in JL as he is rumored to be under the influence of Darkseid not that that has not happened in comics or the animation before but if you are looking for a hero right away then you may not get that right away.

I think all that you mentioned and how the world felt about superman was done but only at the end of BvS and you can see that in how the world has embraced him as the superman we know.

At the end if Mos and beginning of BvS you can see even from the view point of Bruce how things look from the ground on the world eyes we were attacked by aliens and he is one of them sure he helped defeat them but he is partially responsible for all this death and destruction.

Only after he sacrifices himself in BvS does the world embrace him . That scene was amazing not one marvel movie has provided us with something like that . I do get what you mean about a dark captain American but superman is not tha5 dark he is just being shown as a person with flaws a normal person pervious versions he was shown to be frankly like a prophet I never lie saving cats out of trees that is excessive .

Either way JL looks amazing I am glad they kept the tone and only interjected some humor, but it'd still at the core the same style.


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[GasparZizou]

Yes, Youngblood/Spawn: the Movie would be a great fit for Snyder. In fact, I think he would be great for the proposed X-Force movie! Because he is so X-TREME, seemingly pulled right out of 1992! He really is the Rob Liefeld of comic films, for better or worse.

More like the Jim Lee. He has better technique than a Liefeld although equally EXTREME.

And has no problem with feet.

I would love a Mortal Kombat movie by Snyder.

 

[karamazov80]

More like the Jim Lee. He has better technique than a Liefeld although equally EXTREME.

And has no problem with feet.

I would love a Mortal Kombat movie by Snyder.

That's quite a compliment to Snyder, IMO. If I'm being generous I would compare him with McFarlane, but not Jim Lee I'm afraid.

 

[GasparZizou]

That's quite a compliment to Snyder, IMO. If I'm being generous I would compare him with McFarlane, but not Jim Lee I'm afraid.

Well Jim Lee and Liedeld are almost the same thing except Lee can draw better.

Still, lots of cross hatching and unnecesary overshadowing.

Early Jim Lee could escape this comparison though.

Yes McFarlane would be most appropriate.

 

[loki2371]

Well if you don't like superman's dipiction in BvS they you may really hate him in JL as he is rumored to be under the influence of Darkseid not that that has not happened in comics or the animation before but if you are looking for a hero right away then you may not get that right away.

I think all that you mentioned and how the world felt about superman was done but only at the end of BvS and you can see that in how the world has embraced him as the superman we know.

At the end if Mos and beginning of BvS you can see even from the view point of Bruce how things look from the ground on the world eyes we were attacked by aliens and he is one of them sure he helped defeat them but he is partially responsible for all this death and destruction.

Only after he sacrifices himself in BvS does the world embrace him . That scene was amazing not one marvel movie has provided us with something like that . I do get what you mean about a dark captain American but superman is not tha5 dark he is just being shown as a person with flaws a normal person pervious versions he was shown to be frankly like a prophet I never lie saving cats out of trees that is excessive .

Either way JL looks amazing I am glad they kept the tone and only interjected some humor, but it'd still at the core the same style.


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I'm glad you liked, and I do have a friend who liked it as well. Yet the opinions of myself and my closest circle of 3 friends would be 3 to 1. 1 like to 3 dislikes. That's pretty much the same the world over, thus the panned critic reviews and low score on RT. Strong arguments work better when it's a much closer divide. Say a 60/40 split, not a 80 /20 split. There are many movies that I like and yet I know they are bad, but I don't dare defend them as anything other than what they are. Bad, yet entertaining fun movies. I can't even put BvS in that category.

The main issue is WB/DC knows there's a disconnect and a problem among the viewers and fans, but don't seem to care or want to fix it. It's been said internally that they don't care how the world receives it, as long as the movies make money. Is that really the attitude they should be taking at this point? How long is that gonna last? If both Wonder Woman and JL don't succeed, you really think they will bother with Flash and Aquaman movies? How long before DC starts over? Endless reboots will destroy the genre quicker than generic fatigue will. I'm not too excited for Spider-Man for that same reason. And I'm a big Spidey fan. It was cool to see him, but he didn't need to be in Civil War. I feel marvel made a deal with the devil in Sony, as is proven by their news of going ahead with Venom and Black Cat/Silver Sable movies that won't be part of the Spidey/MCU. Who the heck want's to see that!!?? Venom without Spidey? And your right. After my letdown from BvS & SS and seeing the trailers for WW & JL, I have no intention on seeing Wonder Woman or JL. And I even get to see all these movies for free as 1 of my friends in my circle has been in the Movie Theater business for 30 years.

BvS shoudl've been like Avengers. Fans running out of the theaters with giddy excitement, and the longing for more. But DC just wanted $$$$$$$$$. They didn't earn the fans excitement and anticipation. No build up to a climax. No introducing of characters, then bringing them together for a bad a$$ showdown. It's like a girlfriend who has a 2 pump chump for a boyfriend. It was good for him, but she's left unsatisfied and wanting for more....

Marvel was able to do all that and more where DC failed miserably. They built a Universe, DC threw crap at the wall and are hoping it'll stick.... So far it's not. From a monetary stand point BvS succeeded. But it is really a failure. It shoudl've been the box office smash making $1.5 billion world wide like Avengers, not a measly $873 million. That's nearly half the take of Avengers. And around the world Superman, Batman, & Wonder Woman are embraced more heavily than any or all characters combined in the Avengers. Marvel chose B list characters and turned them into favorites around the world. DC took A list characters and made people say "meh". DC just kept bragging about how they were batter than Marvel, and were doing things different. Giving fans what they wanted... That's as inaccurate a statement as could be as proven by box office totals.

 

[karamazov80]

Well Jim Lee and Liedeld are almost the same thing except Lee can draw better.

Well I'm certainly not going to be singing the praises of any of the Image guys based on their writing acumen I think Jim Lee's costume design is the worst, but the guy could draw him some ****ing X-Men, that's for sure.

Honestly, in hindsight, I give Liefeld probably the most credit of all of those guys in terms of his creative capacity. Because he had the sense to call in Alan Moore to take over his comic when it was clear the fans were no longer going to buy something because a flavor of the week artist was involved.

 

[GasparZizou]

Liefeld is a cool guy. Hes done that with various of his creations, letting other people with cool visions take over his IPs with his blessing.

 

[Victοr]

Oh ****, is it time for a Liefeld thread?! I'm gonna go against the grain and present something more... "special", than the tired and used Cap image:

Kidding aside, Snyder is definitely more akin to Le Lief. He overhypes his work, he usually sucks and once every blue moon produces something worthwile amongst the pile of rubbish.

Kinda off-topic, but it's funny how the 90s had such a "distinctive" style. You'd be hard-pressed to find anything these resembling an "art movement". I guess the focus on experimental and indie art could be that, but each style is so different from the other, that the point becomes moot. I mean, you've got ultra-realistic ones like McNiven or Mann, "uncanny valley" ones like Coker, "watercolour" ones like Acuna, etc, etc. There's definitely more variety.

 

[karamazov80]

I bet Snyder wears button-fly jeans.

 

[GasparZizou]

Oh ****, is it time for a Liefeld thread?! I'm gonna go against the grain and present something more... "special", than the tired and used Cap image:

Kidding aside, Snyder is definitely more akin to Le Lief. He overhypes his work, he usually sucks and once every blue moon produces something worthwile amongst the pile of rubbish.

Kinda off-topic, but it's funny how the 90s had such a "distinctive" style. You'd be hard-pressed to find anything these resembling an "art movement". I guess the focus on experimental and indie art could be that, but each style is so different from the other, that the point becomes moot. I mean, you've got ultra-realistic ones like McNiven or Mann, "uncanny valley" ones like Coker, "watercolour" ones like Acuna, etc, etc. There's definitely more variety.

The 90's definitely has a very distinctive look, like a teenager just learnt how lightining and shading work so he goes gung ho with it in his drawings.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Well Jim Lee and Liedeld are almost the same thing except Lee can draw better.

Still, lots of cross hatching and unnecesary overshadowing.

Early Jim Lee could escape this comparison though.

Yes McFarlane would be most appropriate.

Jim Lee is nothing like Liefeld

 

[Victοr]

The 90's definitely has a very distinctive look, like a teenager just learnt how lightining and shading work so he goes gung ho with it in his drawings.

Yup. Couple that with the two formulas (Pouches + Aaaaabs + Gunz = Ze Perfect Hero & ****s + Mile Long Legs + Thongz = L'Perfect Woman) and you've got the 90s. Uh, and uh, something about blood n'**** for the actual stories. Like, who gave a crap back then? Pfft, "story"...