Those who disliked TLJ, are you still buying toys from it?

[Spazz]

A true Leftist embraces science. These are just elitists the alt right erroneously identifies as progressives. Like Hillary bots. Phony progressives. Hillary the corporatist warmonger.

I wish that were true. Watch this travesty, from within a leftist safe space:



These kids didn't just make this stuff up. Post Modernists, many of whom are tenured academics, argue against Logic and Reason for a bizarre form of solipsism. Noam Chomsky, a very prominent left wing anarchist, complains about this branch of the left all the time.



Keeping it relevant, that's why I don't think people should by The Last Jedi toys. Don't support films that reflect Post Modernist belief, because it erodes common sense.

 

[SilverStar17]

Deep breath. Here we go

1. "Cognitively prejudiced" isn't a term. It's redundant. It's not prejudice to acknowledge that I, as a white man have an instant advantage when I walk into an interview due to the simple fact that I look like the people interviewing me. It is not prejudice to acknowledge that social structure and class provide default benefits and access to upper middle class white people.

2. The system is no way prejudicial towards men. Of course men make up more casualties in war, women were not allowed to serve in combat in the U.S. until 2013. I don't see anyone denying that men deal with domestic abuse, but even by your own statistic, women suffer from it disproportionally more. The idea that men face institutional and systemic sexism is absurd, especially when men literally run everything in this country.

3. How did this turn into a diatribe about SJW's?

You see a movie full of "male prosecution" because you can't handle the idea of a default being anything other that a white man.

First off, I'm genuinely sorry to hear and disappointed to see that you view yourself merely as (a) "white man" above and before anything else. Such as friend, hard worker, son, father, 1/6 collector, etc.

Good start on a rebuttal though. Now, I dare you to make a cogent, convincing argument without using any emotional pleas, ad hominems (such as your last sentence), labels (particularly the bolded ones since that seems to be your favorite one), or any word with a suffix of "ist" or "phobe".

Go.

 

[Mr.Tanker]

This thread has now fully devolved into identity politics. People yelling about the evils of "SJW's" and "Hillary Bots."

Reason and thoughtful discussion have jumped out the window at this point.

Have fun yelling at clouds, kiddos.

 

[RandomHero]

First off, I'm genuinely sorry to hear and disappointed to see that you view yourself merely as (a) "white man" above and before anything else. Such as friend, hard worker, son, father, etc.

He is no man.

 

[Spazz]

Deep breath. Here we go

1. "Cognitively prejudiced" isn't a term. It's redundant. It's not prejudice to acknowledge that I, as a white man, have an instant advantage when I walk into an interview due to the simple fact that I look like the people interviewing me. It is not prejudice to acknowledge that social structure and class provide default benefits and access to upper middle class white people.

2. The system is no way prejudicial towards men. Of course men make up more casualties in war, women were not allowed to serve in combat in the U.S. until 2013. I don't see anyone denying that men deal with domestic abuse, but even by your own statistic, women suffer from it disproportionally more. The idea that men face institutional and systemic sexism is absurd, especially when men literally run everything in this country.

3. How did this turn into a diatribe about SJW's?

You see a movie full of "male prosecution" because you can't handle the idea of a default being anything other that a white man.

1. Socialists view employment as "wage slavery". To presume that a socialist, who regards employment as an affront to their dignity, would be privileged in having the ability to rent themselves from slightly more than the person standing next to them on an assembly line, or working next to them in an office, is prejudice toward a particular mindset. It presumes objective desire, where there isn't one.

2. The system is prejudiced toward both men and women. You seem to think that being an employee your entire life is a privilege, or that if someone who looks like me rules me, I'm somehow lucky. You're projecting your own implicit subservience onto everyone else. Not everyone wants to live the same way you do. Meanwhile, there is systemic bigotry in all of the instances I've sighted. The reason why systemic bigotry exists is because people, like yourself, believe that there's a single utopian blueprint capable of meeting everyone's needs.

Meanwhile, why are you presuming that there's solidarity among all men? Is there something about the COMPETITIVE MARKET that indicates this? Men exploit other men, too. Men have always exploited other men. To presume otherwise is irrational. As a result, the fact that men rule the world says nothing about the condition of those men being ruled. You've made a non-argument.

3. Feminists agree with my interpretation of the film. Star Wars is about "Toxic Masculinity". It just went over your head:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269657/toxic-masculinity-is-the-true-villain-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi

https://code.likeagirl.io/the-last-jedi-toxic-masculinity-and-showing-your-place-in-all-this-bd16ffacdcf9

https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/star-wars-last-jedi-unexpected-examination-toxic-masculinity-spoilers-115626888.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

I could site many more instances, but that should give you a rough idea. And lastly, regarding your argument, You see a movie full of "male prosecution" because you can't handle the idea of a default being anything other that a white man."

In logic, that's what we call an "intentional fallacy". You're presuming something about my intentions, rather than addressing my argument. That's not coherent.

 

[guyver1]

Getting Rey and I guess Kylo..but how can anybody not get those two even if you despise the film

 

[SilverStar17]

Getting Rey and I guess Kylo..but how can anybody not get those two even if you despise the film

Easy. They didn't like the characters.

I personally did though, which is why I'm getting Jedi (not training outfit) Rey. I'll pass on Kylo, as I prefer his TFA look and I only want one iteration of him. Unless he ever goes for ridiculously low amounts, then perhaps.

 

[Spazz]

This thread has now fully devolved into identity politics. People yelling about the evils of "SJW's" and "Hillary Bots."

Reason and thoughtful discussion have jumped out the window at this point.

Have fun yelling at clouds, kiddos.

Actually, I'm a Nihilist. I don't believe in Evil because morality, justice and natural rights don't exist. It's all nonsense. I'm opposed to the Social Justice movement because it's both illogical and irrational.

Edit: I'll also add, that I'm the only Nihilist on this forum. However, right wing people have polite discussions with me, are courteous and kind. Why can't the left be tactful when they disagree with people?

 

[ShadowX81]

I wish that were true. Watch this travesty, from within a leftist safe space:

Seems a lot like what was talked about here only a few pages back.

"Sure, you may have liked Wonder Woman as a character, but you are only saying that because she conforms to what you, as a white man, view as a well written female character".

 

[Vault Boy]

I wish that were true. Watch this travesty, from within a leftist safe space:



These kids didn't just make this stuff up. Post Modernists, many of whom are tenured academics, argue against Logic and Reason for a bizarre form of solipsism. Noam Chomsky, a very prominent left wing anarchist, complains about this branch of the left all the time.



Keeping it relevant, that's why I don't think people should by The Last Jedi toys. Don't support films that reflect Post Modernist belief, because it erodes common sense.

Chomsky also points out what I added in my previous post. That we adhere to the principal of universality. That is we apply to ourselves the same standards that apply to others. Another difference between the two.

As far as the toys go. They've been gathering more and more dust on retailer's shelves since TFA. Toy sales have dropped even more this year by 47%. Judging from TLJ having the largest box office drop of all the Star Wars films, the retailers probably won't even be able to give the toys away.

 

[medicomsucks]

Chomsky also points out what I added in my previous post. That we adhere to the principal of universality. That is we apply to ourselves the same standards that apply to others. Another difference between the two.

As far as the toys go. They've been gathering more and more dust on retailer's shelves since TFA. Toy sales have dropped even more this year by 47%. Judging from TLJ having the largest box office drop of all the Star Wars films, the retailers probably won't even be able to give the toys away.

I hadn't even thought about hot toys' sales. I feel TFA didn't sell the way they wanted to, but the marvel and Batman stuff seems to do well. But I do wonder if they have also had problems with sales. If so, I would think they would reduce their prices, but instead they may just be decreasing their production. I just hope they don't get swallowed up by Hasbro. That would be the worst.

 

[SilverStar17]

I wish that were true. Watch this travesty, from within a leftist safe space:

Agreed. Whenever a radical leftist claims they are believers of science, ask them how many genders there are.

Seems a lot like what was talked about here only a few pages back.

"Sure, you may have liked Wonder Woman as a character, but you are only saying that because she conforms to what you, as a white man, view as a well written female character".

Right?

It's like saying 2+2 doesn't equal 4 if it's a "white man" that says this, because it's only being said to advance and reinforce the "white patriarchal power structure".

I hadn't even thought about hot toys' sales. I feel TFA didn't sell the way they wanted to, but the marvel and Batman stuff seems to do well. But I do wonder if they have also had problems with sales. If so, I would think they would reduce their prices, but instead they may just be decreasing their production. I just hope they don't get swallowed up by Hasbro. That would be the worst.

Yeah, HT went way overboard with TFA.

 

[davejames]

Translation: I don't even know where to start with that mountain of ********.

It sounds like his argument basically comes down to "Racism and sexism is all in our heads and if us wacky liberals would just ignore it the whole problem would go away." Lol

As I mentioned before, which you were unable to do, point me to a particular institution in our society (name a company, university, etc) where an entire group from top to bottom isn't being given the same opportunity (key word) strictly based on nothing more than their gender or skin tone, and I'll gladly condemn it.

Just as I condemn your open advocation for the discrimination of "white males", and based on those two attributes alone.

Really? So as long as the entire group isn't being affected or there isn't a specific law on the books then the problem doesn't exist?? That is such a bizarre argument. There have been a multitude of studies that show people being discriminated against in various ways (like in a job or housing application because of a black sounding name, for instance).

 

[SilverStar17]

It sounds like his argument basically comes down to "Racism and sexism is all in our heads and if us wacky liberals would just ignore it the whole problem would go away." Lol



Really? So as long as the entire group isn't being affected or there isn't a specific law on the books then the problem doesn't exist?? That is such a bizarre argument. There have been a multitude of studies that show people being discriminated against in various ways (like in a job or housing application because of a black sounding name, for instance).

I'm confused as to what your premise is now.

Before, it was that minority groups are being oppressed as a whole and that the "white male" needs to move over because they've had it good for too long. Now you're essentially saying that these minority groups are not being oppressed as a group, but there's some single cases where a person got denied something? And I'm also not saying this doesn't exist by the way in isolated incidents. I'm certain it does and it's not to ignore anyone who was perhaps singled out on their skin color, gender, by a cab driver for instance. But who's to blame there? Certainly not an entire race or gender.

Like I stated earlier, it's like going to the doctor and telling the doctor you hurt. When he or she asks where, you just keep repeating, "I hurt." Then when the doctor can't pinpoint your issue, you label he or she as being a bad doctor.

Also, is there sound evidence that says the only reason, and nothing else, why they weren't given that job is because they had a "black sounding name" as you put it? Because there's single cases I know of personally where "black people" were indeed hired because they were the right person (not color) for the job, despite their "black sounding name".

 

[Spazz]

Agreed. Whenever a radical leftist claims they are believers of science, ask them how many genders there are.
Right?

My opinion might differ from yours, in this regard. Remember, I'm not an idealist when I say any of this, so I'm not approaching this from an SJW perspective.

I would argue that there are two sexes, but that "gender" as defined by the left is just a set of cultural symbols, like "boys wear blue, and girls wear pink". I think the right often mishandles this issue, in attempting to avoid the lunacy regarding PC culture and transgender issues.

It's important to distinguish between actual "transgendered" people in the traditional sense, and SJW nonsense. Many if not most transgendered people have what should be called "sex dysphoria", where even if they were on a deserted island, they'd feel as if they were born in the wrong skin. I've known a few people like this. They're not political, and suffer from what they would describe as a severe form of mental anguish. For them, embracing the opposite gender (clothing, mannerisms etc) or getting surgery is a coping mechanism for their very real mental discomfort. These people are ironically very conscious of gender, and want to "pass" as male or female so that they are perceived the way they feel. I have OCD, and while I wouldn't speak for anyone else, I've been told that it's very similar to my experiences of intrusive "ego dystonic" thoughts.

Then, there are the neo-hippy SJW cretins exploiting transgendered people. These are the parasites who want you to memorize a laundry list of pronouns, in the name of justice. While I agree with those of them who argue that gender is a construct, they fail to understand that most of the population doesn't distinguish between gender and sex. When people use pronouns, most of them are referring to sex, and not gender.

So, when you see a guy dressed as a woman, you might think, "That's a He. Don't take them home, dude." That's fine. However, I think that if you're a nice guy, and don't want to hurt people unnecessarily, it's a tactful thing to accommodate people clearly trying to appear as a man or woman, to help them deal with their mental anguish.

There are a select few who attempt to deal with sex dysphoria by attempting to accept the way they were born, and describing themselves as "gender neutral". If that works for you, great. However, I honestly see it as accommodating mental anguish, the way we'd be expected to install ramps for people in wheel chairs. If there's a disconnect between your sex and your cognition, you have a problem.

This has been entirely mishandled by SJW's advocating on behalf of transgendered people. There has been very little attempt to educate people regarding the problems some people face, in dealing with sex related cognition. The issue of whether or not beards are feminine, men can wear dresses etc. is just cultural nonsense. It should be irrelevant to what has become the politicization of an affliction.

 

[Spark Extractor]

Seems a lot like what was talked about here only a few pages back.

"Sure, you may have liked Wonder Woman as a character, but you are only saying that because she conforms to what you, as a white man, view as a well written female character".

Right?

It's like saying 2+2 doesn't equal 4 if it's a "white man" that says this, because it's only being said to advance and reinforce the "white patriarchal power structure".

If that's actually what you guys got out of that exchange (not talking about the video) then there really is no point.

Then, there are the neo-hippy SJW cretins exploiting transgendered people. These are the parasites who want you to memorize a laundry list of pronouns, in the name of justice.

Really? ....I mean.......Really?

 

[SilverStar17]

My opinion might differ from yours, in this regard. Remember, I'm not an idealist when I say any of this, so I'm not approaching this from an SJW perspective.

I would argue that there are two sexes, but that "gender" as defined by the left is just a set of cultural symbols, like "boys wear blue, and girls wear pink". I think the right often mishandles this issue, in attempting to avoid the lunacy regarding PC culture and transgender issues.

It's important to distinguish between actual "transgendered" people in the traditional sense, and SJW nonsense. Many if not most transgendered people have what should be called "sex dysphoria", where even if they were on a deserted island, they'd feel as if they were born in the wrong skin. I've known a few people like this. They're not political, and suffer from what they would describe as a severe form of mental anguish. For them, embracing the opposite gender (clothing, mannerisms etc) or getting surgery is a coping mechanism for their very real mental discomfort. These people are ironically very conscious of gender, and want to "pass" as male or female so that they are perceived the way they feel. I have OCD, and while I wouldn't speak for anyone else, I've been told that it's very similar to my experiences of intrusive "ego dystonic" thoughts.

Then, there are the neo-hippy SJW cretins exploiting transgendered people. These are the parasites who want you to memorize a laundry list of pronouns, in the name of justice. While I agree with those of them who argue that gender is a construct, they fail to understand that most of the population doesn't distinguish between gender and sex. When people use pronouns, most of them are referring to sex, and not gender.

So, when you see a guy dressed as a woman, you might think, "That's a He. Don't take them home, dude." That's fine. However, I think that if you're a nice guy, and don't want to hurt people unnecessarily, it's a tactful thing to accommodate people clearly trying to appear as a man or woman, to help them deal with their mental anguish.

There are a select few who attempt to deal with sex dysphoria by attempting to accept the way they were born, and describing themselves as "gender neutral". If that works for you, great. However, I honestly see it as accommodating mental anguish, the way we'd be expected to install ramps for people in wheel chairs. If there's a disconnect between your sex and your cognition, you have a problem.

This has been entirely mishandled by SJW's advocating on behalf of transgendered people. There has been very little attempt to educate people regarding the problems some people face, in dealing with sex related cognition. The issue of whether or not beards are feminine, men can wear dresses etc. is just cultural nonsense. It should be irrelevant to what has become the politicization of an affliction.

No, I would actually agree. Gender dysphoria, or sex dysphoria as you put it, seems to be the clinical term for it.

If someone wants to believe they are the opposite of their biological sex, that's completely up to them. One isn't denying their humanity at all nor devaluing them as a person. What I disagree with is the notion that all of their problems will magically go away if I would just go along with their charade and pretend that they are the sex that they believe themselves to be. As you said, all this does is accommodate mental anguish.

I'm not a moose if I suddenly believe myself to be a moose. I'm not 60 years old, even if I suddenly believe myself to be 60 years old.

If that's actually what you guys got out of that exchange (not talking about the video) then there really is no point.




Really? ....I mean.......Really?

Well then feel free to discuss, as opposed to just condescendingly saying "there's no point." The purpose of discussion is to exchange ideas.

 

[Revanist]

Absolutely not. Don't get me wrong there are some nice visuals at times and I liked the scene between R2 and Luke but not much else. It insults my intelligence in places and sucked me out of the Star Wars universe too much.

I love the new Luke sculpt but won't give money or shelf space to anything from what I see as a failure of a movie - what they did to Lukes character is just awful. (To me anyway.)

I hate that I hate the movie but on getting home @ 3am after the double bill I 1) posted my shock and dislike on twitter 2) wrote to Sideshow about changing my pre-orders for TLJ which they have graciously cancelled.

 

[Spazz]

No, I would actually agree. Gender dysphoria, or sex dysphoria as you put it, seems to be the clinical term for it.

If someone wants to believe they are the opposite of their biological sex, that's completely up to them. One isn't denying their humanity at all nor devaluing them as a person. What I disagree with is the notion that all of their problems will magically go away if I would just go along with their charade and pretend that they are the sex that they believe themselves to be. As you said, all this does is accommodate mental anguish.

I'm not a moose if I suddenly believe myself to be a moose. I'm not 60 years old, even if I suddenly believe myself to be 60 years old.
Well then feel free to discuss, as opposed to just condescendingly saying "there's no point."

The irony is, most transgendered people agree with you. That's my point. Most (male) transgendered people go through extremely painful surgery, with over a year recovery time, so they can "present" the way they are on the inside. I know a couple of transgendered people, and have interacted with a lot of them because of where I live. Transgendered people know that they're not biological men or women, and I've never met one who would argue that your sex is whatever you say it is, or that you have an obligation to perceive them one way or another. On the contrary, most of them go to very great lengths to "pass", so that you have no idea that the sex they were born with is different from how they look. Moreover, they're not doing it for you, but because they themselves want to look "like a man", or "like a woman".

In other words, if most transgendered people didn't care about their actual physiology, they wouldn't go through the agony of trying to look like one sex or another. I'm sure there are SJW transgendered people, but I've never met one. If you met a transgendered person, they'd probably ask you to address them as "he" or "she", and be grateful if you accommodated them. They probably wouldn't get moralistic at you, the way SJW's do. It would be like a person in a wheel chair asking you to hold a door open. You'd see them in a wheel chair and think, "Well yeah, of course. Poor bastard." Right? It's the same thing.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

Whoa, this thread took a real turn. I read today TLJ has officially become the year's highest grossing film. I'm not sure what Disney projected the gross to be, but I can't imagine it performed like they'd hoped. They certainly seemed to crack down on negative critics and made Hamill back track a little. I don't think any TLJ products or toys will be big sellers. At least in terms of past Star Wars sales.