Westworld HBO series

[YoNoSe]

I didn't follow it, and only saw a smattering of episodes. But it seemed so allegorical that I just couldn't maintain interest. Was it the Rapture or not? I'm assuming not.

What I'll say is that it manages the sense of ambiguity that LOST tried for but ultimately had to ditch because it was a "mystery" show and eventually you have to pay off the mystery. Leftovers stated from the start that they were not going to answer "the" question. BUT depending on your interpretation of the characters there is an answer that somehow manages to fulfill both opinions on the central mystery.

But if you go into it just wanting to know that answer it will probably bore the **** out of you. If you ever have 30 hours to kill on some great acting and storytelling (first season gets a little sloggy in the middle but the rest of it is immensely compelling) I say give it a shot.

If you don't like ambiguity avoid at all costs.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I like allegory, when I know what it is. I don't like enigmas that are never revealed, deliberately, so it sounds like I won't like the show. Interpretation is fine, but I think a subject should have "an answer" in and of itself, even if that answer is multi-layered and can be seen in different ways. But if its too ambiguous -- or ambiguous for ambiguity sake (*cough -- Twin Peaks) -- then I get frustrated.

 

[YoNoSe]

I like allegory, when I know what it is. I don't like enigmas that are never revealed, deliberately, so it sounds like I won't like the show. Interpretation is fine, but I think a subject should have "an answer" in and of itself, even if that answer is multi-layered and can be seen in different ways. But if its too ambiguous -- or ambiguous for ambiguity sake (*cough -- Twin Peaks) -- then I get frustrated.

It's not indecipherable like Twin Peaks - you don't have to eat the cherry pie to enjoy it.

It's what I like to think of as surgical ambiguity - it's not there because they wrote themselves into corners like some of the LOST mysteries, it is there for a purpose and you will definitely have an opinion on whether or not the rapture occurred by the end.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well that sounds interesting. I like the idea of "maybe its the Rapture, maybe its ____"....

I don't need a decision on that, as long as the "answer" serves both masters.

 

[YoNoSe]

It's remarkable how they end it, IMO. I had one opinion the night of the finale and the opposite the next day. Then after digesting it I read some commentary and behind the scenes stuff and it's really brilliant.

Also, aside from the rapture aspect, it's a truly bonkers portrait of a man who has to become comfortable with his insanity.

Oh, and by season 2 Liv Tyler is terrifying.

 

[Otomofan]

I just caught up on all of season 2 so far over the weekend. Way more enjoyable than waiting a week inbetween episodes.

I too am confused as hell by the Bernard timelines. And are there multiple functioning Bernards running around at once? Our "main" Bernard is possessed by Ford at the moment, but we still don't know when that moment is. I know they're trying to top themselves but it's not working. It's just aggravating.

Also, did we ever see what he did to Elsie last season? How come she's not dead? And their scenes together this season aren't necessarily "now" either, so I'm guessing he IS gonna end up killing her.

So far, it's reminding me of GoT in that every character that's had speaking lines over the course of a few episodes has plot armor now. Our hero/anti-hero William was shot about 7 times since the robots starting rioting, and he's fine. Ridiculous. He just took a shot to center mass in ep 7, but no, no, he'll just sit for minute and get his wind back and he'll be fine.

Dolores is not only completely unlikable, she's downright boring. I couldn't give a toss about her or her storyline. If the writers were trying to make her "human" they've failed. She just seems like a broken machine that's killing everything in her path, just like the Yul Brynner robot in the original movie.

Maeve got a little more interesting to me this season. I rolled my eyes at her story in season one, but her relationship with the scummy writer guy is what saves it. Totally getting a Jamie/Brienne of Tarth vibe.

Shogun World bored the snot out of me, maybe cause I live in Japan. Let's cram every cliched trope about Edo into 90 minutes snooooozzzze. They even cast the SAME. THREE. DAMN. JAPANESE. ACTORS. that are in every single Hollywood production that requires someone to speak Japanese.

Hell, whatserface from Wolverine/Batman v Superman didn't even speak!!

There ARE other Japanese women in the world than Rink Kikuchi, you know.

As with season one though, everything looks absolutely gorgeous and expensive as hell. And I really like the actor that plays Bernard. He's the only robot that even feels remotely human. But as a whole, this show gets a "C" from me...just a pretty diversion until other shows I like come back on.

And don't think I noticed the complete lack of boobs, HBO. Season one was like Mardi Gras....now we're only seeing hanging dong. For shame, HBO. For shame.

 

[e30ernest]

Off the top of my head, the Bernard storylines seem to be:

Spoiler

• Present day Bernard - The one being interrogated by during this episode. This is also the Bernard who looks at the lake full of dead hosts.
• Arnold - this is pre-Bernard. He's the one that brings Dolores to his home outside the park before Delos invested into the park.
• Pre-park Bernard - the one having a conversation with Dolores (ala Arnold)
• Sometime during Season 1 Bernard - the one that had the Ford brain ball made and took it to the cradle. He's also the one who kidnaps Ellie and kills that other management member in Ford's lair (forgot her name).
• Several weeks ago Bernard - The Bernard we got just after Dolores shoots Ford in Season 1. This is the same one with Ellie during Dolores' attack and the one possessed by Ford now.

I probably missed more, and I could also be completely wrong.

 

[YoNoSe]

I hope someone makes a 5 pack of Bernard figures.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Off the top of my head, the Bernard storylines seem to be:

Spoiler

• Present day Bernard - The one being interrogated by during this episode. This is also the Bernard who looks at the lake full of dead hosts.
• Arnold - this is pre-Bernard. He's the one that brings Dolores to his home outside the park before Delos invested into the park.
• Pre-park Bernard - the one having a conversation with Dolores (ala Arnold)
• Sometime during Season 1 Bernard - the one that had the Ford brain ball made and took it to the cradle. He's also the one who kidnaps Ellie and kills that other management member in Ford's lair (forgot her name).
• Several weeks ago Bernard - The Bernard we got just after Dolores shoots Ford in Season 1. This is the same one with Ellie during Dolores' attack and the one possessed by Ford now.

I probably missed more, and I could also be completely wrong.

That's way too much smugness on the showrunners part. The first season was far more enjoyable. This season is a mess.

 

[Shawpaw]

I'm actually liking this season more and more. Will need to run through it again to make final judgement.

 

[Otomofan]

yawwwwn...what time is it?

Oh sorry....that HOUR LONG FILLER episode felt like an eternity.

Showrunner: "Let's take literally eight minutes of unimportant exposition and stretch it out into a full hour....that'll pad the season pretty nicely after we already wasted a good 90 minutes in Shogun World."

 

[Plastic Bateman]

yawwwwn...what time is it?

Oh sorry....that HOUR LONG FILLER episode felt like an eternity.

Showrunner: "Let's take literally eight minutes of unimportant exposition and stretch it out into a full hour....that'll pad the season pretty nicely after we already wasted a good 90 minutes in Shogun World."

To be honest it was still better than most of the other episodes this season. Lots of worldbuilding and a really good character actor anchoring it all together. I'd rather filler be like this than Shogunworld, and that pains me to say as someone who loves feudal Japanese stuff.

 

[batfan08]

To be honest it was still better than most of the other episodes this season. Lots of worldbuilding and a really good character actor anchoring it all together. I'd rather filler be like this than Shogunworld, and that pains me to say as someone who loves feudal Japanese stuff.

I ****ing loved this episode. To me, it’s stuff like this that’s most interesting and it’s my favorite part of high concept sci-fi like Westworld. The mysteries and the plot unfolding are as intriguing to me as the next guy, but, when you can take an exploration of artificial intelligence and use it to ruminate on the nature of existence; what it means to be alive, to love; to be, and, then, to try and understand that meaning within the confines of mortality? They’re using robots to tell extremely human stories and I think it’s fantastic. Not to mention, I’ve been a fan of Zahn McClarnon ever since I saw him on Fargo and he was tremendous in this episode.

 

[Otomofan]

The whole episode reeked of retcon.

If this guy and his story were so important, why wasn't he foreshadowed since season one?

Probably cause he didn't exist until long after they got the greenlight for season 2 and knew they had to stretch things out. It flies in the face of everything they established in season one. They wouldn't have a host just wandering around, minding his own business for ten years, coming and going as he pleases.

In season one, they'd get a red alert anytime even ONE host stayed off script. Having him meet Ford and Ford telling him he's "special" this late in the game is pure laziness, and is no different from LOST's "magic island."

Every mystery on the show can be solved with the phrase "it was a magic island."

On this show, looks like every inconsistency is just gonna come down to "Ford programmed it that way."

Magic Anthony Hopkins.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

The whole episode reeked of retcon.

If this guy and his story were so important, why wasn't he foreshadowed since season one?

Probably cause he didn't exist until long after they got the greenlight for season 2 and knew they had to stretch things out. It flies in the face of everything they established in season one. They wouldn't have a host just wandering around, minding his own business for ten years, coming and going as he pleases.

In season one, they'd get a red alert anytime even ONE host stayed off script. Having him meet Ford and Ford telling him he's "special" this late in the game is pure laziness, and is no different from LOST's "magic island."

Every mystery on the show can be solved with the phrase "it was a magic island."

On this show, looks like every inconsistency is just gonna come down to "Ford programmed it that way."

Magic Anthony Hopkins.

The character's been there in the background from the very first episode. They actually wrapped up a lot of loose threads going right the way back to the pilot with this story, including answering why the maze imagery kept appearing everywhere including under people's scalps, the natives worshipping the cleanup staff, etc. If anything that's the opposite of "because Ford did it" as we now know he wasn't the one hiding Arnold's maze throughout the park.

I ****ing loved this episode. To me, it’s stuff like this that’s most interesting and it’s my favorite part of high concept sci-fi like Westworld. The mysteries and the plot unfolding are as intriguing to me as the next guy, but, when you can take an exploration of artificial intelligence and use it to ruminate on the nature of existence; what it means to be alive, to love; to be, and, then, to try and understand that meaning within the confines of mortality? They’re using robots to tell extremely human stories and I think it’s fantastic. Not to mention, I’ve been a fan of Zahn McClarnon ever since I saw him on Fargo and he was tremendous in this episode.

I think I'd like more episodes like this, focusing on one character and being more like good, old-fashioned sci-fi exploring ideas. It reminded me a little of some of the better Star Trek TNG episodes.

 

[YoNoSe]

One of the best eps IMO. A host gaining consciousness in the wild, an emotional story and more park lore - loved it. Oh and beautiful visually even by this show’s standards.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

One of the best eps IMO. A host gaining consciousness in the wild, an emotional story and more park lore - loved it. Oh and beautiful visually even by this show’s standards.

The quality has been all over the place this season. Most of the episodes have been terrible, but eps 4 and 8 are probably the best out of both seasons.

 

[Shawpaw]

I really really liked this episode. Kept the charm of the 1st season but really expanded on the universe. Powerful ending too.

Loved the discussion with Ford.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

I really really liked this episode. Kept the charm of the 1st season but really expanded on the universe. Powerful ending too.

Loved the discussion with Ford.

It made me glad I sat through the endless filler, honestly. Maybe they can still deliver a strong conclusion to this season.

 

[e30ernest]

The whole episode reeked of retcon.

If this guy and his story were so important, why wasn't he foreshadowed since season one?

He and the ghost nation were there since season one. They were always lurking in the background.

In season one, they'd get a red alert anytime even ONE host stayed off script. Having him meet Ford and Ford telling him he's "special" this late in the game is pure laziness, and is no different from LOST's "magic island."

I figured they weren't pinged when he went off-script because he was an alpha build.


I loved the episode. That ending was really good.

Also, it's implied that Ford finally realizes their sentience after he talks to Akecheta. I also like how this ties up the loose end of that symbol appearing in host's scalps.