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So now even William is a robot?

Sheesh. This show dove into LOST territory FAST.

I'll watch the season finale just for the sake of completion but I can't imagine any way they'll pull me back in for another season (or three if their plans are to be believed) after this.

Honestly, we've spent over 9 hours since the massacre in season one finale and NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. Nothing has been resolved. Just a bunch of robots on a rampage and highly trained teams with vastly superior firepower being "bested" by them. It's ludicrous.

Happy for you if you're enjoying it but for me it's been a total mess. I enjoyed "Billions" way more than this every week.
 
So now even William is a robot?

Sheesh. This show dove into LOST territory FAST.

I'll watch the season finale just for the sake of completion but I can't imagine any way they'll pull me back in for another season (or three if their plans are to be believed) after this.

Honestly, we've spent over 9 hours since the massacre in season one finale and NOTHING HAS HAPPENED. Nothing has been resolved. Just a bunch of robots on a rampage and highly trained teams with vastly superior firepower being "bested" by them. It's ludicrous.

Happy for you if you're enjoying it but for me it's been a total mess. I enjoyed "Billions" way more than this every week.

Yeah this season is **** and ruined my love for Season 1.
 
I'm stoked for the finale. :dunno

I was into it for the whole robot revolution/valley beyond mystery but after MIB's developments last episode I'm really interested in where he ends up.

As far as sophomore slumps go, I think this is a pretty good one. :lol
 
season finale spoilers!


So....did anyone like that?

I guess I liked some parts, but a lot of it had me rolling my eyes.

First of all, William had been shot center mass at least 5 times, and also had a huge gaping self inflicted wound in his elbow. That kind of pain would be unimaginable. Yet he still manages to walk around, ride a horse, aim his gun, etc. THEN he ends up getting his damn hand blown off. Same arm that's already got a life threatening wound in it.

I know we have to suspend disbelief, but that was just ridiculous. Unless of course he's a host, which is just dumb.

Also dumb: the writer guy sacrificing his life for no reason instead of trying to talk and prove he's a human. That was one of the single dumbest things this show has ever tried to get us to believe, right behind the special forces guy that let himself get killed by a robot cause she was hot. I get that they were trying to show that this guy has "grown" as a person but that was just so eye-rollingly retarded to have him go out in a hail of bullets for no reason.

Also, was there anyone that's ever seen a movie before that didn't see Charlotte plugging Elsie about a mile before it happened? Way to telegraph. Besides, we still don't know how/why she's even alive in the first place cause they never showed what Bernard did to her in season one. Or at least, if they did, I must have missed it.

And maybe head of security guy is a robot too. Or at the very least, he's so good at seeing robots he can tell just by looking at them. Like how Cypher could see hot chicks in the green code in The Matrix.

And then there was Bernard and Dolores. I like Bernard. He's very sympathetic and likeable. Dolores is one dimensional and boring as hell. Also, nobody in the history of ever watching television would have believed she was really dead.

At least the other boring plot of Super Maeve and her not-daughter was resolved. I also liked the shot of the Indian getting shot and falling through the portal, cause they made it seem like he didn't make it for a second. That was cool. I admit it...for a half a second they got me. But he made it, and he's reunited with his girlfriend...but is he really? Cause how did her code get in robot heaven? She's still in cold storage in the park somewhere. So if she's just an artificial construct made from his memories or something, can he really be happy, cause how will he know if she's "real?"

And I have the same feeling I had after season one. "This would be a good place to stop." They really tied up everything this time, even moreso than season one. But no. It's definitely coming back. I guess I'll watch it, cause unlike Mr Robot which also completely went off the rails, it didn't infuriate me or insult me as a viewer. It's fine for passive viewing I guess but the writers really cheat a lot.

Which brings me to the post-credit stinger. I have nothing to say about it other than it was probably the dumbest, laziest attempt to mind****** an audience since Tim Burton's stupid Planet of the Apes remake. That stupid Ape-raham Lincoln statue. That's what the post credit scene was.
 
This whole season was terrible. A complete mess trying to be too smart for its own good. Not even the late addition of Ford could save it.
 
Yeah, I forgot to mention how dumb the idea that Dolores built Bernard is.

Writers must think we're complete idiots to not see obvious retcons for what they are.


Hmmmmm. Thinking it over again.....the whole season really DID suck, didn't it? Like I said from the very beginning, it's a beautiful show. But it's stupid.

Like the cheerleader of your dreams from high school....perfect as long as she doesn't talk and ruin everything.
 
I have mixed feelings too. I'm not exactly sure where that leaves everything in terms of timeline. The "ending" I think is a time-jump again forward several years into the future.


First of all, William had been shot center mass at least 5 times, and also had a huge gaping self inflicted wound in his elbow. That kind of pain would be unimaginable. Yet he still manages to walk around, ride a horse, aim his gun, etc. THEN he ends up getting his damn hand blown off. Same arm that's already got a life threatening wound in it.

I know we have to suspend disbelief, but that was just ridiculous. Unless of course he's a host, which is just dumb.

This wasn't clear to me too. Did the real William do that? Because the William at the end-credits was also in the same shape.

Also dumb: the writer guy sacrificing his life for no reason instead of trying to talk and prove he's a human. That was one of the single dumbest things this show has ever tried to get us to believe, right behind the special forces guy that let himself get killed by a robot cause she was hot. I get that they were trying to show that this guy has "grown" as a person but that was just so eye-rollingly retarded to have him go out in a hail of bullets for no reason.

The guys on the other side do know he's human though. They even say that he's "not the guy" they were after. This was a case of suicide by cops.

Also, was there anyone that's ever seen a movie before that didn't see Charlotte plugging Elsie about a mile before it happened? Way to telegraph. Besides, we still don't know how/why she's even alive in the first place cause they never showed what Bernard did to her in season one. Or at least, if they did, I must have missed it.

Only thing shown on S1 was Elsie getting grabbed IIRC. Shortly after the season, there was a WW website with a distress call coming from Elsie.

And maybe head of security guy is a robot too. Or at the very least, he's so good at seeing robots he can tell just by looking at them. Like how Cypher could see hot chicks in the green code in The Matrix.[q/uote]

Are we talking about discount Hemsworth? Yeah he's a host too I think (implied).


And then there was Bernard and Dolores. I like Bernard. He's very sympathetic and likeable. Dolores is one dimensional and boring as hell. Also, nobody in the history of ever watching television would have believed she was really dead.

Yeah Dolores for most of the season was one-dimensional. I think she redeemed herself on the end though (in terms of motivation).

At least the other boring plot of Super Maeve and her not-daughter was resolved. I also liked the shot of the Indian getting shot and falling through the portal, cause they made it seem like he didn't make it for a second. That was cool. I admit it...for a half a second they got me. But he made it, and he's reunited with his girlfriend...but is he really? Cause how did her code get in robot heaven? She's still in cold storage in the park somewhere. So if she's just an artificial construct made from his memories or something, can he really be happy, cause how will he know if she's "real?"

This was Dolores' whole point too. Why at first she tried to destroy the "Matrix". In the end, she transmitted the data somewhere, presumably to build them bodies there.

And I have the same feeling I had after season one. "This would be a good place to stop." They really tied up everything this time, even moreso than season one. But no. It's definitely coming back. I guess I'll watch it, cause unlike Mr Robot which also completely went off the rails, it didn't infuriate me or insult me as a viewer. It's fine for passive viewing I guess but the writers really cheat a lot.

I read somewhere that they have 5 seasons planned, with only season 3 being ordered so far. Season 2 did open up a lot of new possibilities. It is implied a lot of the main cast are coming back.

Which brings me to the post-credit stinger. I have nothing to say about it other than it was probably the dumbest, laziest attempt to mind****** an audience since Tim Burton's stupid Planet of the Apes remake. That stupid Ape-raham Lincoln statue. That's what the post credit scene was.

Yeah this is where my mixed feelings are. This looks like another time-jump, one where they are actually able to create backups of people and have them survive for a period of time outside in the real world (as opposed to what happened to Delos).

So my mixed feelings come from storylines that weren't really necessary in the end. This could have been a shorter, more focused season. I think this went 3 episodes too long.
 
Lisa Joy confirmed that Season 2 William is human but the end credits William is a copy that has been in his own loop for decades like James Delos.
 
I need to watch the season finale again. I’m still trying to figure out what I just watched. Don’t get me wrong, some of it was pretty entertaining, but there seemed to be a lot of twists at the end. I was seriously having trouble following what was going on. And the end sort of reminded me of the ending of Lord of the Rings were every time I thought I was watching the last scene, there was another ending right after that. It felt like there were ten endings.
 
Lisa Joy confirmed that Season 2 William is human but the end credits William is a copy that has been in his own loop for decades like James Delos.

Thanks! Yeah this was my impression too. So does this mean that his daughter in his future loop is a host too? It's implied that she was dead (Dolores said she found her body)?
 
Yeah, read that interview after watching the finale.

Still doesn't make up for the fact that they were pulling most of this stuff out of their ass the whole time.

Again, it's pretty ridiculous for any of the robots to be able to revolt at all. It's one thing for them to go haywire and run amok in the park, like in the original movie. And that could cause chaos for a while, sure. But when special forces are coming in from the outside, it's a real stretch to not think they wouldn't just cut the power, set off an EMP, or just plain turn the robots off.
 
Geez I'll have to watch the entire season again because the timeline jumping in that finale, particularly with Bernard, confused the hell outta me.

Is Delores now in the real world? Whom did she smuggle out with her? Bernard for one, but who is in the body of Tessa Thompson's character at the end?

I gather next season will run in split timelines again if we're going by William's scene at the end. How far into the future must that have been?

This season was just ultra confusing.

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Also just a thought, I think the point from when William stands with his blown-out hand and hobbled to the elevator is set to the future. I don't think the present William was able to get up after his hand got blown-off.
 
I liked it but I need to rewatch.

On rewatching episode 9 I became convinced that Emily was a host because she refers to the Delos scheme as "your little experiment" when talking to MIB and then later in a flashback, Ford refers to it as "your little experiment" when talking to William at his party. I took that specific phrasing as a hint. So I'd guess park Emily was a host and fidelity-test Emily in the post credit scene is real Emily.

I don't have a problem with host-William but I do want to know when exactly that happened. Which I imagine will be a big part of season 3. Assuming Ed Harris doesn't completely skelton-ize between seasons. It's kind of morbidly funny how they write Ford out each season...juuuuust in case.

I actually liked Dolores again for the last few episodes and I was happy they finally used Hale for something. Tessa Thompson seemed wasted on the one-note character but could conceivably do interesting things now.

I loved Logan-as-a-system, as well as his last real-life scene with his Dad - the "all the way down" line that host-Delos was babbling when he was allowed to completely degenerate.

Akecheta sort of found his wife? The Forge storyline is a head scratcher - is it a good thing or a bad thing? And where did Dolores beam the code?

I think the main criticism I have is that the forced tricksy storytelling device led to a few episodes that felt like above-average wheel-spinning and then a massively packed finale.

Also, they literally went to the ass-crack of Westworld. :lol
 
Also just a thought, I think the point from when William stands with his blown-out hand and hobbled to the elevator is set to the future. I don't think the present William was able to get up after his hand got blown-off.

That seems likely. We see him get in an elevator and then there's a moment where another character (Bernard??) opens the elevator door and it's strangely empty and we don't see MIB again until the beach.

I wonder if he WAS real this whole season (I know - ridiculous Hollywood bullets that you can walk-off :lol ) and they took his defeat this season as a jumping off point to create a MIB-bot. Maybe he succumbed to his wounds?
 
Well in that interview, the show runner all but explicitly states that William at the end is far into the future, and that Dolores basically created a host version of him to remain there forever as some sort of eternal punishment. Which explains why the room and area they were talking in were so dilapidated.

I feel the same way in the end as I did about the first season. Which is just annoyed that they clearly expect me to watch the entire season twice to understand everything. Which is fine for a 2 hour movie, but I don’t have time for 10-11 hours of tv.


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Well in that interview, the show runner all but explicitly states that William at the end is far into the future, and that Dolores basically created a host version of him to remain there forever as some sort of eternal punishment. Which explains why the room and area they were talking in were so dilapidated.

I feel the same way in the end as I did about the first season. Which is just annoyed that they clearly expect me to watch the entire season twice to understand everything. Which is fine for a 2 hour movie, but I don’t have time for 10-11 hours of tv.


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I had not considered that possibility. I did notice when Deloroes and Bernard were in the forge via their connection, I noticed the MIB in one of the rooms where other hosts were often in when they were being prepped, etc. He seemed to take notice of Delores and Bernard, which made me go hmmmmm....as usually hosts don't seem to notice humans or other hosts walking around.

I guess security guy (Hemmsworth) is a host??? Wonder if Elsie was a host but her role had kinda become useless so if she is gone, then no big deal!
 
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