MGS has what appears to be great video game females. Because they all have some kind of Tragic back story or fate to shock you in to thinking its anything other than Kojima taking out his frustrations about women in the only way he can. Naomi? some Orphan who's parents got killed, she turned in to a Spy to try and kill Snake. Meryl with the tragic back story, SniperWolf with the tragic back story, Olga's child is stolen, then she is killed. EE being in love with her Brother... then being killed. Fortune cant die. The Boss being betrayed by her country. Paramedic turning in to a bad guy in the future. Eva being a triple Agent who is constantly violated by Volgin in the bum bum. The Beauty and the Beasts, Naomi's fate. Mistral, Paz, Strange love, Quiet.
Media What's the best Metal Gear game? (May Contain Spoilers!!)
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Plastic Bateman
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I think you're projecting something onto those characters that clearly isn't there. Just as many of the male characters have tragic pasts. Non of that invalidates that the writing of those female characters is head-and-shoulders above most videogames.
pturtle
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What about Jetstream Sam, Bladewolf and Sundowner? I thought they were all pretty fantastic. Plus the support crew, especially Herr Doktor.
This. It's not a matter of bad games, it's a matter of varying levels of brilliant games.
I beat Rising about 4 times, and I just never really got all the love for Sam, the other two just didn’t do it for me. I will say this though, I haven’t played Sam’s DLC yet, I have it, and I need to play it. Maybe I’ll appreciate him more after I eventually play it.
pturtle
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Is there a character in this series in general that doesn’t have a tragic back story?
Raiden, Big Boss, Solid Snake, Solidus, Liquid, Drebin, Ocelot, Skull Face etc…
Everybody has a tragic back story, but the men arent sexualised and abused as part of their " character ". They also arent portrayed in their back stories as weak and powerless like the women. They are portrayed as young child prodigies with abilities beyond thoes around them. The men also are what they appear to be on the surface, good guys or bad guys. Raiden, Big Boss, Solid Snake, Solidus, Liquid, Drebin, Ocelot, Skull Face never betray " you, the player character ".
pturtle
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So your issue is the women in their backstories are oversexualized and abused then eventually grow into strong formidable women that can hold their own or manipulate the men in the series? Isn’t Sunny a child prodigy?
I can’t really understand your logic here, Raiden is pretty much oversexualized in MGS2, and do you not remember what Chico was going through in Ground Zeroes? I don’t want to come off rude or anything but it sounds like you don’t want anything bad to happen to women in these games at all.
No bad games may be subjective
As for characters with no tragic back story, probably only Miller if I recall, unless you count his death in MGS1 and Meryl (To a degree, I guess)
Kojima had nothing to do with Snakes Revenge and it isn’t canon.
I’m talking about critically and commercially none of the main games in the series or portable devices are bad. I’m sure theres some sick people out there that think the first two godfather films suck too, but the majority would certainly disagree.
My issue is that the women are always portrayed as weak, powerless and grow in to strong characters despite their past. Then even while being " empowered " are still sex objects or traitors. You can bring up 1 or 2 male exceptions to the rule but the list of women is farrrrrr far larger. Sunny is a Child Prodigy, but she also has the tragic past too. And luckyly Platinum games did rising because i wouldnt like to think what Kojima would have done to Sunny. George would of forced himself on to her or something.
Plastic Bateman
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No bad games may be subjective
As for characters with no tragic back story, probably only Miller if I recall, unless you count his death in MGS1 and Meryl (To a degree, I guess)
I was going to mention this earlier as an example of what happens when Kojima isn't consulted
'Sexualised and abused' - with the possible exception of the Beauty and the Beast Corps easter eggs, any sexualised characters in the MGS games are portrayed as being in charge of their own sexuality and using it to their advantage. Eva and Paz especially.
'Weak and powerless' - right, because The Boss, Eva, Meryl, Sniper Wolf, Olga, Fortune, the Beauty and the Beast Corps, Mistral, etc are totally submissive, incapable characters who never do anything of note over the course of the games
To break this down, most of these characters are portrayed as the equal to, or superior of, the player character. Sniper Wolf, B&BC, etc all have significantly stronger health bars than the player character and are always at a mechanical advantage in boss fights. Eva is portrayed as being more capable than Naked Snake at everything from marksmanship to bike-driving to piloting aircraft. Meryl is cut down by Sniper Wolf not because she's a woman or weak, but because she's green - an inexperienced rookie. Fortune is literally invulnerable. The Boss may be the single best example of a strong, well-written female character in a game. She blurs the line between protagonist and antagonist, is always portrayed as being at an advantage to her younger, more physical male proteges (Naked Snake and Ocelot), has complex motivations and is even shown commanding the respect and fear of Colonel Volgin. Plus she leads an all-male commando unit. I could go on.'Raiden, Big Boss, Solid Snake, Solidus, Liquid, Drebin, Ocelot, Skull Face never betray you, the player character' - Er, what? I'm going to assume at this point you've never actually played the MGS games and instead are getting all your information from Tumblr and Tropes Vs Women In Videogames. Raiden was abused, tortured and brainwashed by Solidus. Big Boss betrays both Solid Snake and his own phantom, Venom Snake, over the course of three games. Liquid disguises himself as Master Miller explicitly to trick, manipulate and betray Solid Snake into activating Metal Gear Rex. Ocelot betrays literally everyone in every game. Drebin is working for the Patriot AIs. Skull Face's entire character arc across two games is the betrayal of Big Boss and Militaires Sans Frontieres, and the further betrayal of Venom Snake and Diamond Dogs.
That's without even mentioning the explicit sexualisation of male characters such as Big Boss, Solid Snake, Ocelot, Kaz, etc. You can even date Kaz in Peace Walker.
In MGS1 couldnt you watch Meryl working out in her underwear? Then catch her in her underwear in the bathroom? Snake always fixated on her ass, how she walked. Fliring with Mei ling, Naked strip search with Naomi. In mgs3 wasnt it a feature during cut scenes to look at breasts and ass? and in 4 too? All the Ass shots of the B&B's. Quiets scenes in MGSV. The big reveal of the Sniper Skulls in MGSV is of their Breast physics popping in as their bodies form.
Im sure there is soooo many more. My point is that Kojimas input in to MGS games seems to be the sterotypical pervy Japanese man material.
Im sure there is soooo many more. My point is that Kojimas input in to MGS games seems to be the sterotypical pervy Japanese man material.
Dylan
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To this conversation all I have to say is go read Eva medical history in MGS3 and then tell me Kojima isn't a low brow immature pervert.
Plastic Bateman
Super Freak
And...?
And people were talking about Metal Gear without Kojima, i said what i think are the things he added as a personal touch that i found to be the worst parts of the franchise. For some reason you seem to be pretending Kojima doesnt use the games as a way to act out his perverted thoughts because the characters who are over sexualised also happen to have a good role in the games.
Plastic Bateman
Super Freak
For one thing, you're assuming those were solely his contributions. Secondly, they're easter eggs in most cases that you can only find if you're looking for them - that you found them all in some respects speaks more about your own mindset than Kojima's. Thirdly, calling someone a 'pervert' for inserting a little sexual humour into a game is just laughable. Fourthly, Kojima's always been for equal opportunities with his sex-related humour, there's just as many incidents for the male characters (stripped-naked Johnny Sasaki, Solid Snake in the MGS1 briefing tapes, Volgin groping Naked Snake, Raiden forced to cartwheel cupping his testes, etc). Fifthly, how does any of this invalidate Kojima's other contributions of excellent game design, scenario planning, metanarrative, thematic content, etc?
In short - it doesn't. I'm getting fed up of this argument that anything remotely sexual in a game, film or comic somehow invalidates every single one of its positive qualities. Get over it.
FSLAR
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Fanservice with women in MGS is counter balanced by nude Raiden (Who is punched in the balls), and Johnny who is also nude. and caught taking a ****. Some could argue that Snake and Big Boss being shirtless count too.
that said, Quiet. that is all. Do we really have to bring up his twitter comments on her? Erotic, cosplay, figures, etc.? I don't really find MGS sexist toward women but Quiet was pushing it...
also Snake's Revenge and canoncity, such an odd title, I just remembered seeing it and AVGN, and figured 'well why not?'
that said, Quiet. that is all. Do we really have to bring up his twitter comments on her? Erotic, cosplay, figures, etc.? I don't really find MGS sexist toward women but Quiet was pushing it...
also Snake's Revenge and canoncity,
such an odd title, I just remembered seeing it and AVGN, and figured 'well why not?'
FSLAR
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Plastic Bateman
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No, I'm defending a creator from meaningless, culturally-imperialistic criticism of some harmless juvenile humour. As you acknowledge yourself, these women don't exist - so what does it matter if Kojima injects his very Japanese sense of humour into proceedings?
Fanservice with women in MGS is counter balanced by nude Raiden (Who is punched in the balls), and Johnny who is also nude. and caught taking a ****. Some could argue that Snake and Big Boss being shirtless count too.
that said, Quiet. that is all. Do we really have to bring up his twitter comments on her? Erotic, cosplay, figures, etc.? I don't really find MGS sexist toward women but Quiet was pushing it...
also Snake's Revenge and canoncity,
Don't forget about how you can aim the camera straight up Ishmael's bare-naked ass in the hospital prologue.
That was how I guessed immediately he was the real Big Boss.
pturtle
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If people have a problem with how men or women are portrayed in this series, or don't like Kojima's pervy ways why support the game? It's been the same since MGS1.
The oversexualizing of female characters is actually a rare thing these days Quiet is an anomaly in today's world of gaming. I personally respect developers like Kojipro and Rockstar for making the games they want, if the white knights and feminists don't like it then don't buy it, but based on all the cosplay and memorabilia for Quiet, shes definitely one of the more popular characters in MGSV (if not the most), so Kojima did something right with her character.
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The oversexualizing of female characters is actually a rare thing these days
Quiet is an anomaly in today's world of gaming. I personally respect developers like Kojipro and Rockstar for making the games they want, if the white knights and feminists don't like it then don't buy it, but based on all the cosplay and memorabilia for Quiet, shes definitely one of the more popular characters in MGSV (if not the most), so Kojima did something right with her character.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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