When is your investment in education just TOO much?

[agen_kolar]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Honestly this is one of the main reasons as to why I changed my major away from Art. Being a successful artist just might not happen for a lot of us.

If you wanted, you could major in Art at a state University, where the tuition isn't nearly as expensive.

 

[-Super Hans-]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

chase that dream son

 

[Darth Cruel]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Higher education really needs to be put into perspective. It is great for furthering your knowledge on the fast track. But the same information can be learned with experience. That is where it came from before it came from school.

Do not depend on college degrees to make you more money. Making money has a very simple equation. Ability + demand = money. And I am aware that there are professions that absolutley require a college degree to get in to them...even if the demand is not being filled. But to me, most of those requirements are more snobbish than necessary with exceptions such as Doctors.

If you chose a profession based on doing what you love. Do not assume that you will get rich at it. And, conversely, if you choose a profession based on making money, do not expect to love doing it.

It is possible to end up making a lot of money doing what you love. But to do that takes a lot more than college. It takes commitment, dedication, and (just as importantly) you have to have something that a lot of people want. In other words, you have to be in demand.

It is a little easier to find a good-money job that you enjoy doing. That is the catagory that I fall under. I was a Marine. I loved being a Marine and could easily have seen myself doing that forever. But I wanted to make money. So I got out. And I eventually got in to doing inspection on infrastructure-type construction projects like pipelines. power plants, schools, hospitals, bridges...etc. And I make more money than anybody that I personally know who have Master's degrees. And I have the added benefit of enjoying the knowledge that my efforts help, in no small way, to keeping the country running. All on a G.E.D. and a couple thousand dollars for a week-long certification course and few years of experience, which I got paid well for anyway. And I make the money that I do because I am good at it and because there is huge demand for it. There are 50% of the inspectors of my type that the world needs. And of those that there are, about 2/3 of them are not very good. And despite the shortage of inspectors, the lousy ones will sit at home without work unless a super-non-critical job comes up that only needs a "warm body" to show up. And that is about a one-in-a-million.

And it only takes looking at the news right now to see that college degrees do not protect a person from a recession.

Ability is improved by your knowledge of your chosen field. College will certainly help in that department. But so would learning things on your own. Your effort at improvement using any source of knowledge will determine how good you are.

Demand is quite simple and can happen a couple of different ways. Be at or near the top of the results pool in doing what everyone else is doing or come up with something new and original that many people want.

Don't key in on one aspect, such as college, to be the whole plan. You have to look at the big picture and make your plan accordingly.

To be honest, it sounds a lot to me like you are planning to invest a huge amount of money into knowledge of a profession that is incredibly over-staffed right now. And if you do, you have a choice to make.

1) Create your own, original art and become the next Lucas/Trump/Gates-type success at graphic/web/motion design.

2) Be the best, or nearly the best, at doing the current standard of graphic/web/motion design.

3) Expect to struggle under the load of school loan debt for a very long time.

And in the end...it is really not about who you know either. Who you know will get you a foot in the door. If you suck...your foot is likely to get slammed in that door as you are being pushed back out of it.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

in my opinion if you can't completely pay off your student loans in 5 years, it wasn't worth it. going into your 30s broke as hell and heavily in debt seems like the worst thing I can imagine.

I don't claim to have the best paying job in the world, I work for the government, but I'm happy, I don't overwork, and am not in debt except for my modest house. To me, that is security and security means a lot to me. Trust me when I say this, at 18 I had $0.00 to my name. So I got a $12/ hr job and worked my ass off for 5 years. I worked 30-40 hours a week, went full time to school and managed to come out of college not only debt free but with $20,000 to use as a down payment on a home. I never even contemplated getting a loan in college and I never had mommy and daddy pay either.

To be BEHIND by $100,000 before you even think about buying a home is unfathomable and your father should smack you in the head if you go that far into debt.

also for what its worth, i've heard that for media arts education isn't important, its your portfolio of experience. The best way to do that is to get into the working world and do something, not continue your education because whatever you learn now in that field will be obsolete in a matter of years. This is what I've been told from friends in that field anyway. And maybe if you secure a position in that field the company you work for will pay for some further education.

My point is just get a freaking job in the field and go from there. If they want you to get more schooling, do it while working in the field.

Oh yeah, one of my friends from college is a web designer and sure he majored in that field, but even before he earned his BA he was already designing sites for small businesses for a fee. Those businesses didn't ask him about his education... they asked to see his previous commissions.

 

[BadMoon]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

also for what its worth, i've heard that for media arts education isn't important, its your portfolio of experience. The best way to do that is to get into the working world and do something, not continue your education because whatever you learn now in that field will be obsolete in a matter of years. This is what I've been told from friends in that field anyway. And maybe if you secure a position in that field the company you work for will pay for some further education.

At the xbox panel kids asked the designers what types of eductation they should get. Most didn't even have a college education and they make millions. They said it is all hard work and what your portfolio looks like. I never understood going to school for art. If you are a great artist someone with hire you. Now taking a few classes to learn some of the programs and such makes sense but not full on college IMO.

 

[ChrisCJ99]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Well you guys make totally valid points (Darth Cruel and ProgMatinee).......

So here's a problem I face now with the realistic advice you gave me..... What job do I get now?? I see the realistic perspective and I'm not sure I want to be walking away with over $100k in debt going into my 30's. But with only about 3 semesters of classes under my belt, what kind of job could I get?! It probably seems best just to throw in the towel and just pay off the loans I've accrued so far. But with the economy being tight as it is, I'm not even sure what can of job I could land (within or OUTSIDE of the media industry)

 

[devlinboy]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

hard work for the most part can make up for the lack of education. if you are intelligent and work hard the lack of a piece of paper will never hold you back

 

[Les Walker]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

When you spend 15 years after graduating still paying it off....

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

whats your first BA in?
what kind of work have you done in the past?
how are your personal web pages coming along? do you have any?
have you made sites for your friends?
does anyone you know own their own business and could hire you to design their site? (even for free)
the more on hands experience you can lay claim to and add to your portfolio the more others would be inclined to hire you.
i'm just saying from my friends experience, even before he graduated he was like an expert in computers and web design. it was his hobby before it was his career. those are the types of people you are going to be competing with... the guys that web design and do flash stuff (at least back in 2000 it was flash ) just for the fun of it.

 

[ChrisCJ99]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Well my first BA is in Advertising. But that's just as useful as a BA in Business. It's very broad....

I've done a few projects in school, but nothing REALLY professional. I've made a couple web page deigns, but again nothing SUPER professional. (I've always been hard on myself) I've maybe helped my cousin out with a logo design, but other than that not much hands on experience with the field.... I have an internship with an "Ad Agency" (which is basically one person running a business of finding work for photographers) but I don't even think I want to mention that one on my resume..... I'm not learning anything, and the owner is incredibly unorganized.....

I've only done a few projects for school, so I haven't really done too much work that I could even improve yet... Just a photoshop class, adobe illustrator class, flash and aftereffects. Just classes to really skim the surface and get introduced to the software... I haven't gotten into the nitty gritty of conceptual classes yet (Which is why I'm so ticked at my school right now. I feel they did things BACKWARDS and didn't teach me the FUNDAMENTAL skills first THEN the software.......)

So I'm basically at a fork in the road..... Either I keep on truckin and retain some knowledge at a BETTER/more expensive school, or I quit while I'm ahead and just get back into the job market..... (which will most likely land me a job in ANYTHING I can get my hands on......)

ps....... I've worked in the financial industry and obtained my Series 6 license. But I hated those jobs and is the reason why I'm back into school

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

hmm. personally I'dleverage your advertising degree as much as possible. find something in that field, take night classes at an affordable college, then when you feel comfortable with your web design knowledge put that to work in that advertising field. easier said than done, but personally I would rule out full time private college. seems like a money trap and might put you exactly where you are now when you graduate anyway.

 

[ChrisCJ99]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Yeah.... That seems like a good idea. I think full time private school will just get me into debt REALLY fast. I was thinking of finding a job in the field an doing night classes somewhere..... Only problem is, WHERE COULD I FIND A JOB?!?

 

[The Craw]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

That sucks. I hear they teach you how to use caps at the beginning of a sentence there.

that's not the half of it. it took me 4 hours to figure out how to type that. i can't imagine how long it would have taken if i had to utilize the "shift" key. this message took 2 hours. there went my afternoon.

 

[BadMoon]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

that's not the half of it. it took me 4 hours to figure out how to type that. i can't imagine how long it would have taken if i had to utilize the "shift" key. this message took 2 hours. there went my afternoon.

 

[ChrisCJ99]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

And the infamous questions still remains....... $100K+ in loans worth it?

Spent one semester at Otis in the Graphic Design program.... Myeh. Great industry out there, lots of opportunity. I'm switching to Motion Graphics though.... But I'm still contemplating if I want to continue the "heavier financial commitment"...

I'm still debating moving back to Tampa and taking online classes, and working (if I can get a job!)..... That'll save me a LOT. This seems to happen at least a couple times a year!!!

 

[LChinoz]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

And the infamous questions still remains....... $100K+ in loans worth it?

Spent one semester at Otis in the Graphic Design program.... Myeh. Great industry out there, lots of opportunity. I'm switching to Motion Graphics though.... But I'm still contemplating if I want to continue the "heavier financial commitment"...

I'm still debating moving back to Tampa and taking online classes, and working (if I can get a job!)..... That'll save me a LOT. This seems to happen at least a couple times a year!!!

That is an insane amount of debt. IMO having a BA already gives you a heads up in finding a job. A second BA or even an MA will not help with much more than adding more debt. My opinion is find an entry level job with promotion opportunities, especially in design. You gotta work your way up as you work there, gain more responsibility, then eventually get to do something related to design. If anything it will pay the bills.

 

[The Mike]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

I have a Masters Degree. What does it do for me? an extra $90 a month even though it cost me about $5500 to get. As a teacher it doesn't make much sense to go deep into expensive education because you'll never make it back. That is when the investment is too much. I owe $36,000 in student loans, a lot but one of my colleagues who makes the exact same as I do went to St. Mary's College and owes $125,000 for the exact same education. My student loans will be paid off before I retire....his.....well he went too far.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

build your portfolio...do designs on your own & do some work on spec to get some experience

 

[Darth Caedus]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Yea, at a certain point, if you don't already have a job lined up, it is kinda worthless. I know people who went to Harvard for what like $40,000/year, aren't very intelligent, and now they sell cars at a Ford Dealership. Suppose it differs from industry to industry, but from what I've read, in the art industry, having a bunch of debt might not help you out in the long run

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: When is your investment in eduction just TOO much?

Yea, at a certain point, if you don't already have a job lined up, is kinda worthless. I know people who went to Harvard for what like $40,000/year, aren't very intelligent, and now they sell cars at a Ford Dealership. Suppose it differs from industry to industry, but from what I've read, in the art industry, having a bunch of debt might not help you out in the long run

it's true. your just better off taking some anatomy classes & some basic illustration courses