Why Firefly Was Cancelled

[Kamandi]

I still wonder if it hadn't been cancelled it would still have the following it had today. I know people would still love it but they wouldn't fight as hard for it.

I'd rather be in those shoes. RDM's Battlestar Galactica had it's full run and people are able to debate it's merits as a full series. I'm not begging for more RDM Galactica, but I do remember it fondly. I wish we could do the same for Firefly.

When I think of the crap that gets made I don't understand why it's so hard to get another Serenity film. Have you seen the trailers for "Mars Needs Moms"?

Serenity 2 doesn't need $150 million dollars. In fact it would be better off as a direct to video or a mini-series.

The whole Firefly cancellation always seemed fishy. Even beyond the personal vendetta that Fox executive had, I don't think it would have survived anyway because of costs per show.

It wasn't per show costs. After The X-Files became a hit it looked like a freaking movie every week. They were always location shooting. They always had helicopter shots. Everything was shot on film. Fox put $$$ and resources into that show and fully committed. The production team had the support they needed to make a great show. As a result they got ratings. Fox didn't micro-manage Chris Carter. They didn't screw up the order the episodes were run.

 

[MarfMaster]

Okay, I love this video! Way to brighten my morning MM.

Anytime

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Cause Fox sucks.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

It wasn't per show costs. After The X-Files became a hit it looked like a freaking movie every week. They were always location shooting. They always had helicopter shots. Everything was shot on film. Fox put $$$ and resources into that show and fully committed. The production team had the support they needed to make a great show. As a result they got ratings. Fox didn't micro-manage Chris Carter. They didn't screw up the order the episodes were run.

Yes, but you said it yourself--AFTER X-Files became a hit. If you remember, the early X-Files were as low budget as you get (although I thought they had a certain charm because of it). So the show built up an audience when it was cheap to make, and once advertisers started asking for the X-Files timeslot Fox finally (and probably reluctantly) gave the X-Files additional funds. Firefly was already costing a bit of change right off the bat. It needed to be a huge hit right away if it was ever going to survive. It's stupid and unrealistic on Fox's part to demand that kind of success without building up to it, but that's why they get paid the big bucks!

 

[RED5150]

The Avengers is the answer. Most syfi fans have seen or heard of Firefly and all the people I know got the series on dvd when it sold for 20 bucks. That's what got me into it. So if the Avengers movie does great the world will beat a path to Joss' door and he with pressure from the fans and Nathan will say I now have the power to make a new Firefly movie and you Hollywood guys will listen to me.
Avengers Assembly !

 

[jimjimmyjones85]

And then they went and did that with Dollhouse. So someone has something against Joss in that place. Why he keeps going back to them is beyond me.

Who knows.

But I do know... if Firefly had been on UPN or even ScyFy we would have seen many more seasons.

 

[darthviper107]

The Avengers is the answer. Most syfi fans have seen or heard of Firefly and all the people I know got the series on dvd when it sold for 20 bucks. That's what got me into it. So if the Avengers movie does great the world will beat a path to Joss' door and he with pressure from the fans and Nathan will say I now have the power to make a new Firefly movie and you Hollywood guys will listen to me.
Avengers Assembly !

Firefly was originally not even going to be on DVD until fans forced Fox to release it. And the DVD's have been selling well ever since. Really for them to do something more, they'd have to get the support of someone involved. The fact is, fans can't raise enough money to get the show going in any form---the set for Serenity alone would be a huge issue. Joss Whedon or someone would have to try and get the project going and get real funding.

 

[beeshaw]

And then they went and did that with Dollhouse. So someone has something against Joss in that place. Why he keeps going back to them is beyond me.

I think he was contractually obligated to give Fox first crack at Dollhouse. He was probably signed to some sort of 'talent' agreement

 

[Devil_666]

Why Firefly Was Cancelled

Because it sucked.

*runs away*

 

[Colossus]

Because it sucked.

*runs away*

There is a Special place in Hell for you, I know I Vacation there from time to time but not for that remark

 

[ShadowX81]

There is a Special place in Hell for you,

A place usually reserved for pedophiles and people that talk in the theatre.

 

[Dr.FeelGood]

And then they went and did that with Dollhouse. So someone has something against Joss in that place. Why he keeps going back to them is beyond me.

IF my memory serves me correctly, Joss kept returning to hell...er i mean Fox, because he was under contract with them. At the time Firefly was due to air, he was starting work on Season 5 of Angel and also preping his first treatment of DollHouse for Fox...

After the pathetic "3 episode blunder" Fox came out with for Firefly, airing the as written second episode as the pilot and not airing the actual pilot till the last episode, with heavy cuts, and in some cases not airing it at all (I've heard of cases where only 2-3 episodes of the show ever actually aired, mainly in the UK and some parts of the USA and Canada...and of course the 2 episode original run in Australlia), Fox decided to terminate Joss's contract with them. They pulled Angel from production while they were in the process of writing what was to be its sixth and final season, and left Joss in the lurch. ***

Then a couple years later (and a new Fox Exec) they approached him to bring DollHouse to production (after shelving it during the "anti-Joss" cull). At the time, he didnt want to work with Fox and instead approached different studios about making a feature film from FireFly (what we all know as Serenity), Fox tried to veto this, even so much as to say THEY owned the entire show....Joss, not being a fool, had the contract on his side, but Fox had the name FireFly.

After Serenity "under-performed" at cinemas (Fox REFUSED to air any trailers or promo's for the film, another attempt to ruin Joss) and the studio (i forget which) didnt pick up the possibility of a continued series, Joss returned to his ONLY friend at Fox, and got DollHouse into production.


Of Course, Fox would later bite him again, and if my memory isnt completely shot to hell and back, i believe he now refuses to work for the network, focusing more on the comics for Angel, Buffy and Firefly, and getting his own ideas out there in feature film form through other networks...


Amendum *** - I spoke of the "Three Episode Blunder". This is actually a reference to how Fox aired the first three episodes of FireFly. I forget the titles but fans will remember them. The Train Robbery Episode (aired as pilot), the second "Niska" episode and then the bounty hunter episode (which in the run was actually the last) were aired one after the other in Australlia, New Zealand, the UK and parts of Canada. In the USA the "Pilot" epsiode was "The Train Robbery", and then after 3 more episodes they repeated the run over 4 weeks before new episodes aired.


Sorry for the long post, its been a while since I wrote an artical on this for TFN, but anyways...


Miss the show ...alot...i still have to get my better half to watch the show (and film) i KNOW she'll love it...


Regards

SJ

 

[Devil_666]

You guys are like a gigantic excuse machine for this guy and his failed projects.

Everything you guys mention didn't stop YOU from watching and supporting these shows/the movie so how come you use that as an excuse as to why they all failed!?

And now the conspiracy that FOX hates this guy!? Wow, just scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

If you liked/still like all these projects, cool. But it's clear, you were in the minority because everyone else thought they sucked. That's why the shows had terrible ratings and that's why the movie Serenity bombed horribly. That shouldn't prevent you from still liking them, or interfere with your enjoyment of these shows/the movie either.

But damn, you guys are reaching for reasons for the failures and everyone is avoiding the obvious: They failed because the majority of people thought they sucked.

 

[Colossus]

A place usually reserved for pedophiles and people that talk in the theatre.

 

[Anzik]

You guys are like a gigantic excuse machine for this guy and his failed projects.

Everything you guys mention didn't stop YOU from watching and supporting these shows/the movie so how come you use that as an excuse as to why they all failed!?

And now the conspiracy that FOX hates this guy!? Wow, just scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

If you liked/still like all these projects, cool. But it's clear, you were in the minority because everyone else thought they sucked. That's why the shows had terrible ratings and that's why the movie Serenity bombed horribly. That shouldn't prevent you from still liking them, or interfere with your enjoyment of these shows/the movie either.

But damn, you guys are reaching for reasons for the failures and everyone is avoiding the obvious: They failed because the majority of people thought they sucked.

Wrong. The majority or people didn't see them to form an opinion. The reason they didn't see them was the lack of advertising and promotion for them. Of course moving the show all over couldn't possibly affect viewership and his one show lasted for seven seasons, another lasted for five, and no one I know that has actually watched Firefly wasn't impressed. Didn't really care for Dollhouse, but clearly Whedon has proven he's far from a failure.

 

[Devil_666]

Wrong. The majority or people didn't see them to form an opinion.

So you're saying it's impossible for people to form an opinion on something without experiencing it, in full, for themselves!?

I always thought Rape was wrong, but since I've never been personally Raped I guess I can't form that opinion. Right?



Dollhouse's ratings continually dropped off after each episode. Which means people who initially watched it didn't like it and stopped watching. Serenity received A LOT of promotion and hype, and still opened up at #2 and eventually bombed at the box office. People watched, and people stopped watching. And some people didn't bother to ever watch because they didn't like what they saw and weren't interested.

You act like if people would just watch these shows/movie they would all instantly be fans. And that's just not true. I watched some of Serenity and guess what? I thought it was garbage.

Whedon has proven he's far from a failure.

Who said he was a failure!? I said he had 2 shows and 1 movie that ALL failed. Those disasters don't erase the success Whedon had before or after, and they certainly don't make him a failure personally. So I don't know where you got that from.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Watching the show tonight on Science Channel.

Sure I got it on DVD, but what the hay, watching it on TV anyway.

 

[Anzik]

You're actually equating a television show with rape??

Tell me how someone can form a legitimate opinion on a show they've never seen? You sound like my kids when they tell me they hate a food they never tried.
And you actually said people never watched it because they didn't like what they saw? How can you see something you never watched?

The film was an extension of the show, so therefore the audience of the show would have been the core audience for the film. The film still made 38 million, so it 'lost' 1 million since it cost 39 million to make.
The DVD sales have made the film profitable, but I guess no one really watched them, just bought them for fun. But that was only 1.5 million copies the first week. Grossing total between box office and DVD sales, 60 million dollars.

Yeah no one likes it.

Oh and you said "You guys are like a gigantic excuse machine for this guy and his failed projects. "
A failure is someone who fails repeatedly and since you made 'projects' plural I assume you meant more than one.

Incidentally, I never saw the show until a couple years after the cancellation, like many others who have come to enjoy it.

 

[darthviper107]

So you're saying it's impossible for people to form an opinion on something without experiencing it, in full, for themselves!?

I always thought Rape was wrong, but since I've never been personally Raped I guess I can't form that opinion. Right?



Dollhouse's ratings continually dropped off after each episode. Which means people who initially watched it didn't like it and stopped watching. Serenity received A LOT of promotion and hype, and still opened up at #2 and eventually bombed at the box office. People watched, and people stopped watching. And some people didn't bother to ever watch because they didn't like what they saw and weren't interested.

You act like if people would just watch these shows/movie they would all instantly be fans. And that's just not true. I watched some of Serenity and guess what? I thought it was garbage.



Who said he was a failure!? I said he had 2 shows and 1 movie that ALL failed. Those disasters don't erase the success Whedon had before or after, and they certainly don't make him a failure personally. So I don't know where you got that from.

No offense against you (and I really mean that) but if you act like an ass on the forum, your opinion doesn't really mean anything--just sayin'

 

[Devil_666]

You're actually equating a television show with rape??

Oh c'mon, of course not. Just saying, it IS possible to dislike something without experiencing it yourself just like it's possible to dislike a TV show/Movie without torturing yourself and sitting through it to come to the same conclusion. Right?

Tell me how someone can form a legitimate opinion on a show they've never seen?

Because it didn't appeal to them. Pretty simple.

And you actually said people never watched it because they didn't like what they saw? How can you see something you never watched?

And you actually don't understand that ALL shows have promotion for people to see BEFORE the show actually airs?

The film still made 38 million, so it 'lost' 1 million since it cost 39 million to make.

No. It's pointless to explain this since you'll disregard it anyways, but just in case anyone else is reading this and is interested: Studios don't reap 100% of the profits from ticket sales. And film budgets don't include promotion (Universal put A LOT of money in for the promotion of Serenity).

The DVD sales have made the film profitable

No. DVD sales don't magically make a movie profitable after the fact.

I'm sure the studio made up the loss and then some with merchandise and DVD sales, doesn't change the fact that the movie itself, in theaters, bombed. Here's a little known fact: MOST studios end up making money in the end off of movies, even the ones that bomb. But the only thing movie studios care about is how the movie performs in the domestic box office. If it bombs there, it's considered a failure.

Oh and you said "You guys are like a gigantic excuse machine for this guy and his failed projects. "
A failure is someone who fails repeatedly and since you made 'projects' plural I assume you meant more than one.

I did mean more than one. Firefly failed. Dollhouse failed. Serenity failed. But I never once said Whedon was a failure, because he isn't.

No offense against you (and I really mean that) but if you act like an ass on the forum, your opinion doesn't really mean anything--just sayin'