Zack Snyder's Justice League - what's your wish list?

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I'd also put this down to WB marketing department also being shown how it's done by the "one man show" which is Zack Snyder. He single handedly marketed it himself and showed them how to use the fanbase to your advantage. Also stuff like going to the smaller Youtube channels where the real fans are, to spread the word, and not to the standard "Pop-culture Gatekeeper" media outlets who will always tow the company line predicated by Emmerich in this case. Not to mention most of the mainstream outlets also had their own agenda considering they had already said several times that the Snyder Cut wasn't coming. And if it did it would of course be very similar or not so good.

In any case with WB marketing no doubt as butt hurt as Emmerich, it wouldn't have taken much to convince them to not release HBOMax streaming numbers, or to move Godzilla vs Kong into the same release window as ZSJL to muddy the numbers.

The politics and details of it are amazing. And all because WB execs (Emmerich and co) meddled into the process and were true a-holes.

Yeah, great point that WB actually got schooled by what Snyder did to get ZSJL completed and released. Like you would think their attitude would be damn, look at this engagement! Let's work with Snyder to get that lightning in a bottle, for Pete's sake. And I hope that is precisely the sort of vision that David Zaslav brings! But there's simply no way to know yet. He might just as easily support the good old boy system including Emmerich. The reason I'm fairly optimistic that he won't is that Emmerich has not at all delivered with these incredible DC IPs.

Aquaman did outstanding thanks to an Asian market that loves colorful, whimsical, fantastical, playful films featuring Kaiju! But my God, Shazam and BoP barely made any money. Joker made a billion but WB had no confidence in the film and shared the meager marketing costs with other investors, coming away with only 1/3 of the profit. They did everything they could to prevent the Snyder cut from seeing the light of day. I'll bet it shattered viewing records. Spider-Man and Batman are the two most popular superheroes on the planet. Right after Spider-man: No Way Home made a stunning $1.85B during what we all hope and pray is the tail end of the recent pandemic, the first solo Batman film in a decade released to great reviews but will end up making about what 2016's Suicide Squad did, ending in the mid 700Ms. Maybe 775M tops.

This is nothing against Matt Reeves or Robert Pattinson. I liked The Batman personally. I'm glad that the film was as dark in tone as it was--that is appropriate for the character! (However please note: dark toned and psychologically disturbing superhero films typically do not appeal to the Chinese market, pandemic notwithstanding.) But the film evidently failed to ignite the level of passion that would get it to $1B.

If Ben Affleck had been able to make his solo Batman film without interference (if you don't believe there was any by Geoff Johns, not sure what to say), squaring off in a heavily action oriented film against Deathstoke a la the Arkham game, does anyone really think that would not have made $1B?

I mean, I'm also happy that we have the Reeves/Battinson take as well. But I think Ben's film would have been more popular.

So let's just hope that Zaslav sees all this with objective, sensible, fresh eyeballs.
 
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I love Zack Snyder as a person but he is at times painfully inarticulate. I think he might have shared once that he has a learning disability. His wife Deborah is the one who can explain things more carefully and thoughtfully in digestible ways.
I wouldn't call Snyder inarticulate. I get that he doesn't go back to 'clarify' something he said when it might've 'come out wrong.' Like the Batman prison rape comment, which was only meant to describe how different Watchmen was from Nolan's Batman films. He isn't always 'checking himself' to make sure his comment was clear to the most uninitiated person. Snyder did say he has dyslexia I believe, which is why I believe some behind-the-scenes shots show he spelled "Lois" as "Louis."
The claim was that Reeves' universe was a "dead end" and that its box office haul somehow did not justify doing a universe outside the DCEU because it would be a disaster. Which is absurd.
Nothing absurd about it. It's purely logical and based on easily predictable circumstances. This idea of the Reeves-verse is an absolute recipe for disaster in DC Comics films. And this has zero to do with Snyder and is true whether or not Snyder ever comes back to DC movies or not. I can elaborate on the Pandora's Box that continuing that separate Reeves universe opens.

You'll have general audiences confused about why there are different versions of the characters out there simultaneously. You'll also have your own directors competing for the best actors to play parts like Catwoman or Penguin. WB will have a strong incentive to reduce using Batman characters in the DCEU because of these issues. With this new Batman film only grossing $750-780 million in the end, it's very hard to imagine they will greenlight solo Batman movies in the DCEU with whomever the DCEU Batman is. That gross doesn't justify flooding the market with multiple tracks of Batman movies (unlike the No Way Home gross, where the market is saying, please flood us with three kinds of Spider-Man movies, please). Batman is a character who has shown vulnerability to overexposure in movies before.

It's very clear the WB plan so far has been to retire Batfleck, and use Keaton just for cameos within the DCEU. Or maybe even make Batgirl the only prominent Bat character in the DCEU. This just deprives the DCEU of synergy with Batman, the kind of synergy that has turned the MCU into a historic success that has blessed comic book fans with being able to see the most obscure characters make it to film. How can we build up to a Legion of Doom in the DCEU when all the development work on Batman villains is happening outside the DCEU? Batman and his related characters NEED to be a VERY ACTIVE part of the DCEU in order to make the broader DCEU a success. The DCEU succeeding is necessary for DC's huge array of characters to become viable as feature films. Without an MCU succeeding in one continuity, Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, GOTG, Ant-Man, Eternals, Black Widow and even Dr. Strange would likely never have become movies.

Every bit of investment put into an Iron Man, Captain America, Thor or Spider-Man movie in the MCU boosts up the entire brand. It boosts popularity of the Avengers movies, which in turn boost popularity of all of the solo MCU movies that come after. With WB investing their time and creativity in a detached Batman universe, none of that investment can benefit the wider DCEU. And that investment works in the MCU like compounded interest. The financial dividends that synergy provides are staggering and unprecedented in movie history. That's why the MCU moved heaven and earth to get Spider-Man into their universe, and bought an entire company arguably just to get the X-Men in their universe. In light of that, taking Batman OUT of the DCEU shared universe voluntarily looks like one of the worst decisions by a movie studio of all time.

Like I said, those payoffs to the studio pay off for the fans, when they get to see their favorite obscure characters become movie stars. DC's roster has a particularly wide array of viable C-listers, probably a lot more than Marvel does. These are characters that would likely bomb on their own in solo movies with no universe connection (remember Jonah Hex?), but could do solid business at the Ant-Man level in a successful shared universe. Without a shared universe, Green Lantern made just $219,851,172. Just seven years later, with a DC shared universe operating at the highest gear WB has ever had it operating, Aquaman made $1,148,528,393. 'Nuff said. Shared universes, especially authentic ones based on decades of history in the IP, are where the real money is. So not getting the shared universe working as a hot consumer draw creates a huge opportunity cost in lost profits for DC Comics' deep bench of characters.

Stand-alone movies separate from the DCEU don't have to be a complete no-no. If those movies fit into the DC Elseworlds mold, then they might make sense. They would exist in a radically different continuity that could not fit into the DCEU. E.g., Gotham by Gaslight, Red Sun or Dark Knight Returns. These should be one-off, closed-loop stories, and not something that would continue indefinitely. Especially something where the universe is so similar to the DCEU, that any new character added would simply be poaching potential actors and characters from the DCEU. The Joaquin Joker movie is admittedly a gray area, but is probably Elseworldy enough that it doesn't threaten to take away much from the DCEU, especially since it's set in the past.

I understand there is a big segment of comics fandom that more or less hates everything that DC publishes EXCEPT for Batman. And they think Batman should always be lurking in Gotham City, never fighting aliens on another planet. These people are cheering on WB for separating Batman from the DCEU. WB should absolutely ignore them. They are a fly in the ointment to creating the successful shared universe that is the ONLY logical plan for DC films going forward. Despite their protests, they WILL show up for DCEU-connected Batman movies. And maybe even they will be converted into real DC fans by the shared universe eventually.

Would WB sign on to a plan where the next Flash movie is set outside the DCEU? The next Wonder Woman movie? Aquaman? The idea that a Batman movie should be set outside the DCEU seems to be based on the fact that Batman is their most popular character. This is certainly why there are so many filmmakers who want to make their own Batman movie. But his popularity is the EXACT REASON WHY Batman should be kept in the continuity of the DCEU on the strictest basis. He and his supporting characters offer the strongest opportunity for the DCEU to gain in popularity, which is the plan that will pay off the biggest by far for the studio and DC fans.
 
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I wouldn't call Snyder inarticulate. I get that he doesn't go back to 'clarify' something he said when it might've 'come out wrong.' Like the Batman prison rape comment, which was only meant to describe how different Watchmen was from Nolan's Batman films. He isn't always 'checking himself' to make sure his comment was clear to the most uninitiated person. Snyder did say he has dyslexia I believe, which is why I believe some behind-the-scenes shots show he spelled "Lois" as "Louis."

Nothing absurd about it. It's purely logical and based on easily predictable circumstances. This idea of the Reeves-verse is an absolute recipe for disaster in DC Comics films. And this has zero to do with Snyder and is true whether or not Snyder ever comes back to DC movies or not. I can elaborate on the Pandora's Box that continuing that separate Reeves universe opens.

You'll have general audiences confused about why there are different versions of the characters out there simultaneously. You'll also have your own directors competing for the best actors to play parts like Catwoman or Penguin. WB will have a strong incentive to reduce using Batman characters in the DCEU because of these issues. With this new Batman film only grossing $750-780 million in the end, it's very hard to imagine they will greenlight solo Batman movies in the DCEU with whomever the DCEU Batman is. That gross doesn't justify flooding the market with multiple tracks of Batman movies (unlike the No Way Home gross, where the market is saying, please flood us with three kinds of Spider-Man movies, please). Batman is a character who has shown vulnerability to overexposure in movies before.

It's very clear the WB plan so far has been to retire Batfleck, and use Keaton just for cameos within the DCEU. Or maybe even make Batgirl the only prominent Bat character in the DCEU. This just deprives the DCEU of synergy with Batman, the kind of synergy that has turned the MCU into a historic success that has blessed comic book fans with being able to see the most obscure characters make it to film. How can we build up to a Legion of Doom in the DCEU when all the development work on Batman villains is happening outside the DCEU? Batman and his related characters NEED to be a VERY ACTIVE part of the DCEU in order to make the broader DCEU a success. The DCEU succeeding is necessary for DC's huge array of characters to become viable as feature films. Without an MCU succeeding in one continuity, Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, GOTG, Ant-Man, Eternals, Black Widow and even Dr. Strange would likely never have become movies.

Every bit of investment put into an Iron Man, Captain America, Thor or Spider-Man movie in the MCU boosts up the entire brand. It boosts popularity of the Avengers movies, which in turn boost popularity of all of the solo MCU movies that come after. With WB investing their time and creativity in a detached Batman universe, none of that investment can benefit the wider DCEU. And that investment works in the MCU like compounded interest. The financial dividends that synergy provides are staggering and unprecedented in movie history. That's why the MCU moved heaven and earth to get Spider-Man into their universe, and bought an entire company arguably just to get the X-Men in their universe. In light of that, taking Batman OUT of the DCEU shared universe voluntarily looks like one of the worst decisions by a movie studio of all time.

Like I said, those payoffs to the studio pay off for the fans, when they get to see their favorite obscure characters become movie stars. DC's roster has a particularly wide array of viable C-listers, probably a lot more than Marvel does. These are characters that would likely bomb on their own in solo movies with no universe connection (remember Jonah Hex?), but could do solid business at the Ant-Man level in a successful shared universe. So not getting the shared universe working as a hot consumer draw creates a huge opportunity cost in lost profits on DC Comics' deep bench of characters.

Stand-alone movies separate from the DCEU don't have to be a complete no-no. If those movies fit into the DC Elseworlds mold, then they might make sense. They would exist in a radically different continuity that could not fit into the DCEU. E.g., Gotham by Gaslight, Red Sun or Dark Knight Returns. These should be one-off, closed-loop stories, and not something that would continue indefinitely. Especially something where the universe is so similar to the DCEU, that any new character added would simply be poaching potential actors and characters from the DCEU. The Joaquin Joker movie is admittedly a gray area, but is probably Elseworldy enough that it doesn't threaten to take away much from the DCEU, especially since it's set in the past.

I understand there is a big segment of comics fandom that more or less hates everything that DC publishes EXCEPT for Batman. And they think Batman should always be lurking in Gotham City, never fighting aliens on another planet. These people are cheering on WB for separating Batman from the DCEU. WB should absolutely ignore them. They are a fly in the ointment to creating the successful shared universe that is the ONLY logical plan for DC films going forward. Despite their protests, they WILL show up for DCEU-connected Batman movies. And maybe even they will be converted into real DC fans by the shared universe eventually.

Would WB sign on to a plan where the next Flash movie is set outside the DCEU? The next Wonder Woman movie? Aquaman? The idea that a Batman movie should be set outside the DCEU seems to be based on the fact that Batman is their most popular character. This is certainly why there are so many filmmakers who want to make a Batman movie. But his popularity is the EXACT REASON WHY Batman should be kept in the continuity of the DCEU on the strictest basis. He and his supporting characters offer the strongest opportunity for the DCEU to gain in popularity, which is what will pay off massively for the studio and for DC fans. Without a shared universe, Green Lantern made $219,851,172. Just seven years later, with a shared universe operating at the highest gear DC has ever had it operating, Aquaman made $1,148,528,393. 'Nuff said. Shared universes, especially authentic ones based on decades of history in the IP, are where the real money is.
Amazing post great read!

I love The Batman but make no mistake about it behind the scenes at the hedge fund Wall Street hallways The Batman NOT hitting a billion is viewed 100% as a failure no matter how much a WB executive may claim otherwise.

The only question being asked is this…

“How the hell did silly Aquaman with JM no less make 1 billion while the freaking Batman…BATMAN…DID NOT!”

Especially since Batman had previously made 1 billion.

The rule at the bank is this…

If it made a billion before it is expected to make a billion every single time

If it didn’t make a billion before but silly Captain Marvel made a billion then why the hell didn’t the freaking Batman also make a billion!

There is no pleasing the investment houses they utilize the financial model of “No excuses it needs to follow our grossly distorted rules!”
 
I wouldn't call Snyder inarticulate. I get that he doesn't go back to 'clarify' something he said when it might've 'come out wrong.' Like the Batman prison rape comment, which was only meant to describe how different Watchmen was from Nolan's Batman films. He isn't always 'checking himself' to make sure his comment was clear to the most uninitiated person. Snyder did say he has dyslexia I believe, which is why I believe some behind-the-scenes shots show he spelled "Lois" as "Louis."

Nothing absurd about it. It's purely logical and based on easily predictable circumstances. This idea of the Reeves-verse is an absolute recipe for disaster in DC Comics films. And this has zero to do with Snyder and is true whether or not Snyder ever comes back to DC movies or not. I can elaborate on the Pandora's Box that continuing that separate Reeves universe opens.

You'll have general audiences confused about why there are different versions of the characters out there simultaneously. You'll also have your own directors competing for the best actors to play parts like Catwoman or Penguin. WB will have a strong incentive to reduce using Batman characters in the DCEU because of these issues. With this new Batman film only grossing $750-780 million in the end, it's very hard to imagine they will greenlight solo Batman movies in the DCEU with whomever the DCEU Batman is. That gross doesn't justify flooding the market with multiple tracks of Batman movies (unlike the No Way Home gross, where the market is saying, please flood us with three kinds of Spider-Man movies, please). Batman is a character who has shown vulnerability to overexposure in movies before.

It's very clear the WB plan so far has been to retire Batfleck, and use Keaton just for cameos within the DCEU. Or maybe even make Batgirl the only prominent Bat character in the DCEU. This just deprives the DCEU of synergy with Batman, the kind of synergy that has turned the MCU into a historic success that has blessed comic book fans with being able to see the most obscure characters make it to film. How can we build up to a Legion of Doom in the DCEU when all the development work on Batman villains is happening outside the DCEU? Batman and his related characters NEED to be a VERY ACTIVE part of the DCEU in order to make the broader DCEU a success. The DCEU succeeding is necessary for DC's huge array of characters to become viable as feature films. Without an MCU succeeding in one continuity, Shang-Chi, Captain Marvel, GOTG, Ant-Man, Eternals, Black Widow and even Dr. Strange would likely never have become movies.

Every bit of investment put into an Iron Man, Captain America, Thor or Spider-Man movie in the MCU boosts up the entire brand. It boosts popularity of the Avengers movies, which in turn boost popularity of all of the solo MCU movies that come after. With WB investing their time and creativity in a detached Batman universe, none of that investment can benefit the wider DCEU. And that investment works in the MCU like compounded interest. The financial dividends that synergy provides are staggering and unprecedented in movie history. That's why the MCU moved heaven and earth to get Spider-Man into their universe, and bought an entire company arguably just to get the X-Men in their universe. In light of that, taking Batman OUT of the DCEU shared universe voluntarily looks like one of the worst decisions by a movie studio of all time.

Like I said, those payoffs to the studio pay off for the fans, when they get to see their favorite obscure characters become movie stars. DC's roster has a particularly wide array of viable C-listers, probably a lot more than Marvel does. These are characters that would likely bomb on their own in solo movies with no universe connection (remember Jonah Hex?), but could do solid business at the Ant-Man level in a successful shared universe. Without a shared universe, Green Lantern made just $219,851,172. Just seven years later, with a DC shared universe operating at the highest gear WB has ever had it operating, Aquaman made $1,148,528,393. 'Nuff said. Shared universes, especially authentic ones based on decades of history in the IP, are where the real money is. So not getting the shared universe working as a hot consumer draw creates a huge opportunity cost in lost profits for DC Comics' deep bench of characters.

Stand-alone movies separate from the DCEU don't have to be a complete no-no. If those movies fit into the DC Elseworlds mold, then they might make sense. They would exist in a radically different continuity that could not fit into the DCEU. E.g., Gotham by Gaslight, Red Sun or Dark Knight Returns. These should be one-off, closed-loop stories, and not something that would continue indefinitely. Especially something where the universe is so similar to the DCEU, that any new character added would simply be poaching potential actors and characters from the DCEU. The Joaquin Joker movie is admittedly a gray area, but is probably Elseworldy enough that it doesn't threaten to take away much from the DCEU, especially since it's set in the past.

I understand there is a big segment of comics fandom that more or less hates everything that DC publishes EXCEPT for Batman. And they think Batman should always be lurking in Gotham City, never fighting aliens on another planet. These people are cheering on WB for separating Batman from the DCEU. WB should absolutely ignore them. They are a fly in the ointment to creating the successful shared universe that is the ONLY logical plan for DC films going forward. Despite their protests, they WILL show up for DCEU-connected Batman movies. And maybe even they will be converted into real DC fans by the shared universe eventually.

Would WB sign on to a plan where the next Flash movie is set outside the DCEU? The next Wonder Woman movie? Aquaman? The idea that a Batman movie should be set outside the DCEU seems to be based on the fact that Batman is their most popular character. This is certainly why there are so many filmmakers who want to make their own Batman movie. But his popularity is the EXACT REASON WHY Batman should be kept in the continuity of the DCEU on the strictest basis. He and his supporting characters offer the strongest opportunity for the DCEU to gain in popularity, which is the plan that will pay off the biggest by far for the studio and DC fans.
Yep great post.

While it could be argued that Joker and even Aquaman were stand alone from the DCEU (at least in tone for Aquaman) there is certainly a lot of merit in copying the Marvel formula. Even normie movie goers are now more or less trained to think that comic book movies should be linked somehow, and they need to watch all of them to "keep up" and be able to participate in any peer group conversation.

This just makes it all the more frustrating with WB management imo. They had the winning formula with the movie slate they had. They just couldn't stick to the plan and had to intervene and meddle with what they had.

As has been said many times in the past, success does not come overnight, it is earned. Marvel's formula is no exception to the rule. They didn't have billion dollar movies straight out of the gate. Warner were so full of themselves to think they could simply put out a couple of movies and have their billion dollar earner.

Had they stuck to the plan they would have had an Atom movie in China before Shang Chi and also beaten Marvel to the "big bad" in Darkseid before Thanos, if I remember the timing corrctly....

Anyway all water under the bridge. At least Zaslav may set the ship straight at the last minute without having any personal predjudice in the whole matter as the current mis-management has. A clean out is more than due.

#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
 
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Amazing post great read!

I love The Batman but make no mistake about it behind the scenes at the hedge fund Wall Street hallways The Batman NOT hitting a billion is viewed 100% as a failure no matter how much a WB executive may claim otherwise.

The only question being asked is this…

“How the hell did silly Aquaman with JM no less make 1 billion while the freaking Batman…BATMAN…DID NOT!”

Especially since Batman had previously made 1 billion.

The rule at the bank is this…

If it made a billion before it is expected to make a billion every single time

If it didn’t make a billion before but silly Captain Marvel made a billion then why the hell didn’t the freaking Batman also make a billion!

There is no pleasing the investment houses they utilize the financial model of “No excuses it needs to follow our grossly distorted rules!”

The Asian market made all the difference for Aquaman and The Batman, both, respectively. The Asian market loves fun, colorful, whimsical, fantastical fantasy-adventure movies with kaiju! Aquaman’s domestic gross was middle of the road (actually less than The Batman’s already made) but it soared in Asia. Just compare the Chinese market in particular. Yes there was a pandemic outbreak in China during The Batman’s run, but it was the relatively weak BA.2 strain with most people now vaccinate/boosted (vaxing/boosting is mandatory in China; also China is super cautious about containing outbreaks). But extremely dark and psychologically disturbing superhero films are not China’s cup of tea and never have been. Speaking of which, btw, Joker which also made $1B did not release in China. It did surprisingly well in other Asian countries though. A bit of an outlier since the Asian market typically doesn’t cotton to films like that.
 
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The Asian market made all the difference for Aquaman and The Batman, both, respectively. The Asian market loves fun, colorful, whimsical, fantastical fantasy-adventure movies with kaiju! Aquaman’s domestic gross was middle of the road (actually less than The Batman’s already made) but it soared in Asia. Just compare the Chinese market in particular. Yes there was a pandemic outbreak in China during The Batman’s run, but it was the relatively weak BA.2 strain with most people now vaccinate/boosted (vaxing/boosting is mandatory in China; also China is super cautious about containing outbreaks). But extremely dark and psychologically disturbing superhero films are not China’s cup of tea and never have been. Speaking of which, btw, Joker which also made $1B did not release in China. It did surprisingly well in other Asian countries though. A bit of an outlier since the Asian market typically doesn’t cotton to films like that.
I’m actually shocked the hedge fund folks approved the 3 hour run time they have final say on run time.

That hurt the 1 billion goal.
 
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Nothing absurd about it. It's purely logical and based on easily predictable circumstances. This idea of the Reeves-verse is an absolute recipe for disaster in DC Comics films. And this has zero to do with Snyder and is true whether or not Snyder ever comes back to DC movies or not. I can elaborate on the Pandora's Box that continuing that separate Reeves universe opens.
Yep great post.

While it could be argued that Joker and even Aquaman were stand alone from the DCEU (at least in tone for Aquaman) there is certainly a lot of merit in copying the Marvel formula. Even normie movie goers are now more or less trained to think that comic book movies should be linked somehow, and they need to watch all of them to "keep up" and be able to participate in any peer group conversation.

This just makes it all the more frustrating with WB management imo. They had the winning formula with the movie slate they had. They just couldn't stick to the plan and had to intervene and meddle with what they had.

As has been said many times in the past, success does not come overnight, it is earned. Marvel's formula is no exception to the rule. They didn't have billion dollar movies straight out of the gate. Warner were so full of themselves to think they could simply put out a couple of movies and have their billion dollar earner.

Had they stuck to the plan they would have had an Atom movie in China before Shang Chi and also beaten Marvel to the "big bad" in Darkseid before Thanos, if I remember the timing corrctly....

Anyway all water under the bridge. At least Zaslav may set the ship straight at the last minute without having any personal predjudice in the whole matter as the current mis-management has. A clean out is more than due.

Amazing post great read!

I love The Batman but make no mistake about it behind the scenes at the hedge fund Wall Street hallways The Batman NOT hitting a billion is viewed 100% as a failure no matter how much a WB executive may claim otherwise.

The only question being asked is this…

“How the hell did silly Aquaman with JM no less make 1 billion while the freaking Batman…BATMAN…DID NOT!”

Especially since Batman had previously made 1 billion.

The rule at the bank is this…

If it made a billion before it is expected to make a billion every single time

If it didn’t make a billion before but silly Captain Marvel made a billion then why the hell didn’t the freaking Batman also make a billion!

There is no pleasing the investment houses they utilize the financial model of “No excuses it needs to follow our grossly distorted rules!”

#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
This whole conversation amuses me just a bit, because for the last 8 years or so I've seen people continually saying that Man of Steel and BVS not hitting a billion or doing as well as the Nolan sequels was fine and perfectly respectable and good for starting a franchise. But for The Batman doing better than MOS, that's now not good enough to start a franchise or a "disaster" apparently. Lots of "If they'd released the 3 hour+ cuts of BVS and ZSJL to theaters those would've made a billion" as well, but the future Batman sequels also don't get this sort of benefit of the doubt.

As I said, that ships's already sailed. In the announcement for the new merger Day 1 this week, they listed Matt Reeves as part of their key media creative partnerships. His verse is here to stay. Like, take the Snyderverse out of the equation for the moment. Them cancelling future sequels or spin-offs of The Batman is significantly less likely than just about any other scenario put forth in this thread so far.
 
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This whole conversation amuses me just a bit, because for the last 8 years or so I've seen people continually saying that Man of Steel and BVS not hitting a billion or doing as well as the Nolan sequels was fine and perfectly respectable and good for starting a franchise. But for The Batman doing better than MOS, that's now not good enough to start a franchise or a "disaster" apparently. Lots of "If they'd released the 3 hour+ cuts of BVS and ZSJL to theaters those would've made a billion" as well, but the future Batman sequels also don't get this sort of benefit of the doubt.

As I said, that ships's already sailed. In the announcement for the new merger Day 1 this week, they listed Matt Reeves as part of their key media creative partnerships. His verse is here to stay. Like, take the Snyderverse out of the equation for the moment. Them cancelling future sequels or spin-offs of The Batman is significantly less likely than just about any other scenario put forth in this thread so far.

The tweet below reflects how I feel about the comparison. Both films can be fairly said to have underperformed regarding the very high expectations for them, and yet both ended up doing reasonably well:



With product placement factored in BvS made about $265M--$105M without the product placement, but the revenue from product placement should not be omitted. That was after a very thorough breakdown, so I'd want to see the same for The Batman. But the main point being that they both made some decent money, even if they didn't reach $1B.
 
Yep great post.

While it could be argued that Joker and even Aquaman were stand alone from the DCEU (at least in tone for Aquaman) there is certainly a lot of merit in copying the Marvel formula. Even normie movie goers are now more or less trained to think that comic book movies should be linked somehow, and they need to watch all of them to "keep up" and be able to participate in any peer group conversation.

This just makes it all the more frustrating with WB management imo. They had the winning formula with the movie slate they had. They just couldn't stick to the plan and had to intervene and meddle with what they had.

As has been said many times in the past, success does not come overnight, it is earned. Marvel's formula is no exception to the rule. They didn't have billion dollar movies straight out of the gate. Warner were so full of themselves to think they could simply put out a couple of movies and have their billion dollar earner.

Had they stuck to the plan they would have had an Atom movie in China before Shang Chi and also beaten Marvel to the "big bad" in Darkseid before Thanos, if I remember the timing corrctly....

Anyway all water under the bridge. At least Zaslav may set the ship straight at the last minute without having any personal predjudice in the whole matter as the current mis-management has. A clean out is more than due.

#RestoreTheSnyderVerse
To be clear…I’m a HUGE Snyder fan and cinema fan and DC Comics fan in general.
If the Greenlight Genie came to me and said I could have any unmade movie made that I want, my pick would be ZSJL 2.
With that said, just because I WANT something, doesn’t mean I have to believe that it’s ever going to get made.
With that said, I have to ask, do you guys really believe, not WANT, but truly believe that this guy Zaslav, right now as I type this, is just waiting to “Restore the Snyderverse?” Do you truly believe that this is what he is thinking about or that he cares remotely one way or the other?
My guess is…he doesn’t and I will be proven correct when five years from now he moves on and someone else takes over and the same people on this thread are typing… “Zaslav was the worst! He hated Snyder! But Mike Business, the new CEO of Warner Discovery…now he gets it…he knows a good thing when he sees it…smart, savvy, big comic book fan…why I’ve even heard that he once saw Henry Cavill play Hamlet in the West End and loved it! Now you guys just wait! As soon as he gets there he’s going to clean house! We are literally days away from an announcement of ZSJL 2, 3, and 4! I know it! The Key Grip on Army of the Dead just tweeted a picture of himself in his home office and way back in the background there was a tiny glimpse of a Batman baseball cap on a shelf…he’s trying to tell us something guys! He would know! It’s happening…I can feel it!”
 
To be clear…I’m a HUGE Snyder fan and cinema fan and DC Comics fan in general.
If the Greenlight Genie came to me and said I could have any unmade movie made that I want, my pick would be ZSJL 2.
With that said, just because I WANT something, doesn’t mean I have to believe that it’s ever going to get made.
With that said, I have to ask, do you guys really believe, not WANT, but truly believe that this guy Zaslav, right now as I type this, is just waiting to “Restore the Snyderverse?” Do you truly believe that this is what he is thinking about or that he cares remotely one way or the other?
My guess is…he doesn’t and I will be proven correct when five years from now he moves on and someone else takes over and the same people on this thread are typing… “Zaslav was the worst! He hated Snyder! But Mike Business, the new CEO of Warner Discovery…now he gets it…he knows a good thing when he sees it…smart, savvy, big comic book fan…why I’ve even heard that he once saw Henry Cavill play Hamlet in the West End and loved it! Now you guys just wait! As soon as he gets there he’s going to clean house! We are literally days away from an announcement of ZSJL 2, 3, and 4! I know it! The Key Grip on Army of the Dead just tweeted a picture of himself in his home office and way back in the background there was a tiny glimpse of a Batman baseball cap on a shelf…he’s trying to tell us something guys! He would know! It’s happening…I can feel it!”
First of all as a fan of restore the Snyderverse ZSJL 2 and 3 I have to say your post is freaking hilarious, goof stuff.

I approach this from 2 angles.

1. I loved The Batman GIVE ME MORE PLEASE!

2. It’s freaking HOLLYWOOD of course the Snyderverse isn’t dead hell it wasn’t even put on the back burner they even brought back Jeremy Irons for The Flash plus a slew of other explosive leaks surrounding an increase of ZS elements for The Flash.

If Hollywood can figure out a way to turn the crappy ASM1/ASM2 into a global phenomenon I trust they can figure out how to bring Snyder back and have him continue with his established superhero brand recognition.
 
To be clear…I’m a HUGE Snyder fan and cinema fan and DC Comics fan in general.
If the Greenlight Genie came to me and said I could have any unmade movie made that I want, my pick would be ZSJL 2.
With that said, just because I WANT something, doesn’t mean I have to believe that it’s ever going to get made.
With that said, I have to ask, do you guys really believe, not WANT, but truly believe that this guy Zaslav, right now as I type this, is just waiting to “Restore the Snyderverse?” Do you truly believe that this is what he is thinking about or that he cares remotely one way or the other?
My guess is…he doesn’t and I will be proven correct when five years from now he moves on and someone else takes over and the same people on this thread are typing… “Zaslav was the worst! He hated Snyder! But Mike Business, the new CEO of Warner Discovery…now he gets it…he knows a good thing when he sees it…smart, savvy, big comic book fan…why I’ve even heard that he once saw Henry Cavill play Hamlet in the West End and loved it! Now you guys just wait! As soon as he gets there he’s going to clean house! We are literally days away from an announcement of ZSJL 2, 3, and 4! I know it! The Key Grip on Army of the Dead just tweeted a picture of himself in his home office and way back in the background there was a tiny glimpse of a Batman baseball cap on a shelf…he’s trying to tell us something guys! He would know! It’s happening…I can feel it!”
It's not that hard, put yourself in Zaslav's position. As a new guy coming into a role, what would you (and others in similar situations) typically want to do ?

1). Make an impact, do things differently to the current regime and thereby most of all make WB great again.
2). You also want to make the company a heap of money as quickly as possible.

So to make the company great again you need great talent and to restore bridges broken. Zaslav has clearly said many times he wants good talent back at WB, has moved to Hollywood to do that and be part of it all. That means I would be speaking those who left who can also give him direct honest feedback. Would you believe what Emmerich, Hamada and those desperately trying to hold onto their jobs would tell you ? No, you would speak with Nolan who left WB, speak with Snyder, speak with Affleck speak with others involved with other movie projects to get them back and not speaking bad of WB. Also of course to people wanting to be involved in new projects going forward.

Now, #2 to make the company money as quickly as possible you need to use what you have. Comic book movies are not the only type of movie, so clearly you would be thinking of other properties as well. But as far as comic book movies, they can make a lot of money. Zaslav has clearly said he loves the trinity of Batman, Superman and Wonderwoman.

So would you go out and find all new actors for that, pay people to write new scripts and spend a huge amount of time on something all new with high risk of non acceptance ? And risk going against the Snyder Twitter army to boot ? Or would you take the actors you have in place, who are recognisable and willing to do a couple more movies ? Would you go in a totally different direction or use a plan which follows on from an existing movie with cliffhanger ending which a high percentage of average people liked ?

Considering all that (and it's not a WANT from my side, it's only a logical approach of what someone coming into the situation would see and work with). For me you do JL 2 + 3, do a stand alone Batfleck movie and do some Superman movies with Cavill, put him in Black Adam etc. WW3 is already in the works. The Flash as well. Maybe expand out with an Atom movie in China and maybe do a Cyborg movie. It's a frigging no brainer. At the same time you win over a loyal fanbase and you're a hero. It's a win-win situation.

Sure, no one is saying Zaslav has it as his number 1 priority and is thinking about it night and day. But if you were coming into a position like that, and clearly has to fix the film studio of WB re: comic book movies and achieve points 1 & 2 above, what would you do ?

I'm very interested to hear what you would do as new CEO based on any facts you can add to the argument.
 
There are reasons to be optimistic and hopeful and reasons to be cynical and pessimistic. Personally, I choose to be optimistic and hopeful. But I’m also fully aware that continuation of the Snyderverse may not come to pass.

At this point the hopeful will continue to try to read whatever tea leaves there are. But on May 18th I think we should have our definitive answer.

 
There are reasons to be optimistic and hopeful and reasons to be cynical and pessimistic. Personally, I choose to be optimistic and hopeful. But I’m also fully aware that continuation of the Snyderverse may not come to pass.

At this point the hopeful will continue to try to read whatever tea leaves there are. But on May 18th I think we should have our definitive answer.


Yep, I guess it can also be boiled down to "half glass full" vs "glass half empty" people.

Personally I like to be optimistic, and have no issue keeping the potential of not coming to pass in mind either. If everything was "glass half empty" then we would never have even got ZSJL.

In any case, yes that event will be very interesting. Of course not just for comic book films, but what they have planned in general to get the company back to the great place it used to be.

Thanks for the post Alatar !

I see Disney will also have their event too. So Zaslav will surely want to "bring it" to Disney with all that he has at his disposal, surely.
 
It's not that hard, put yourself in Zaslav's position. As a new guy coming into a role, what would you (and others in similar situations) typically want to do ?

1). Make an impact, do things differently to the current regime and thereby most of all make WB great again.
2). You also want to make the company a heap of money as quickly as possible.

So to make the company great again you need great talent and to restore bridges broken. Zaslav has clearly said many times he wants good talent back at WB, has moved to Hollywood to do that and be part of it all. That means I would be speaking those who left who can also give him direct honest feedback. Would you believe what Emmerich, Hamada and those desperately trying to hold onto their jobs would tell you ? No, you would speak with Nolan who left WB, speak with Snyder, speak with Affleck speak with others involved with other movie projects to get them back and not speaking bad of WB. Also of course to people wanting to be involved in new projects going forward.

Now, #2 to make the company money as quickly as possible you need to use what you have. Comic book movies are not the only type of movie, so clearly you would be thinking of other properties as well. But as far as comic book movies, they can make a lot of money. Zaslav has clearly said he loves the trinity of Batman, Superman and Wonderwoman.

So would you go out and find all new actors for that, pay people to write new scripts and spend a huge amount of time on something all new with high risk of non acceptance ? And risk going against the Snyder Twitter army to boot ? Or would you take the actors you have in place, who are recognisable and willing to do a couple more movies ? Would you go in a totally different direction or use a plan which follows on from an existing movie with cliffhanger ending which a high percentage of average people liked ?

Considering all that (and it's not a WANT from my side, it's only a logical approach of what someone coming into the situation would see and work with). For me you do JL 2 + 3, do a stand alone Batfleck movie and do some Superman movies with Cavill, put him in Black Adam etc. WW3 is already in the works. The Flash as well. Maybe expand out with an Atom movie in China and maybe do a Cyborg movie. It's a frigging no brainer. At the same time you win over a loyal fanbase and you're a hero. It's a win-win situation.

Sure, no one is saying Zaslav has it as his number 1 priority and is thinking about it night and day. But if you were coming into a position like that, and clearly has to fix the film studio of WB re: comic book movies and achieve points 1 & 2 above, what would you do ?

I'm very interested to hear what you would do as new CEO based on any facts you can add to the argument.
That’s easy! As I shared, my favorite interest is DC Comics and I’m a huge Snyder fan…so if I were the CEO I would offer Zack Snyder 1 billion dollars to break his contract with Netflix (WB would also pick up the legal fees) return and make more Justice League movies…
I would offer each of the actors half a billion if necessary to return…if I had to I would sell off other valuable WB IP like Harry Potter to fund this endeavor…I would be fine with the company going bankrupt as long as I got my ZSJL movies…so luckily for the WB shareholders I am not the CEO and this guy Zaslav or whatever his name is, is the CEO.
 
That’s easy! As I shared, my favorite interest is DC Comics and I’m a huge Snyder fan…so if I were the CEO I would offer Zack Snyder 1 billion dollars to break his contract with Netflix (WB would also pick up the legal fees) return and make more Justice League movies…
I would offer each of the actors half a billion if necessary to return…if I had to I would sell off other valuable WB IP like Harry Potter to fund this endeavor…I would be fine with the company going bankrupt as long as I got my ZSJL movies…so luckily for the WB shareholders I am not the CEO and this guy Zaslav or whatever his name is, is the CEO.
Nice. This tells me a lot about you and your sincerity and seriousness to have a real conversation based on some facts here.

It's the internet, what more should I expect than a teenage mentality with no idea.
 
Nice. This tells me a lot about you and your sincerity and seriousness to have a real conversation based on some facts here.

It's the internet, what more should I expect than a teenage mentality with no idea.
Oh I’m completely serious…you asked me what I would do in a hypothetical scenario where I am somehow made the CEO of WB…that’s an honest and sincere answer of EXACTLY what I would do.
“Teenage mentality” would be tossing around insults, like…oh, I don’t know…accusing other posters of having a “teenage mentality” because their good faith answers to your, in fairness, somewhat nonsensical questions don’t fit comfortably into your tidy little narrative.
Leave the basement for some air this afternoon my friend, you’re taking all of this just a little too seriously.
 
Amazing post great read!

I love The Batman but make no mistake about it behind the scenes at the hedge fund Wall Street hallways The Batman NOT hitting a billion is viewed 100% as a failure no matter how much a WB executive may claim otherwise.

The only question being asked is this…

“How the hell did silly Aquaman with JM no less make 1 billion while the freaking Batman…BATMAN…DID NOT!”

Especially since Batman had previously made 1 billion.

The rule at the bank is this…

If it made a billion before it is expected to make a billion every single time

If it didn’t make a billion before but silly Captain Marvel made a billion then why the hell didn’t the freaking Batman also make a billion!

There is no pleasing the investment houses they utilize the financial model of “No excuses it needs to follow our grossly distorted rules!”
I disagree jye. I don’t think it was seen as a failure. It’s the first movie of a franchise and like it or not the Snyder movies left a sour taste in fans mouths so people were a bit hesitant I guess. I don’t think it was meant to cross a billion it was just meant to jump start the franchise
 
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