Zack Snyder's Justice League - what's your wish list?

[Hoody999]

So…wait…they gave Zack Snyder $70 million dollars to make his cut of JL so he would fail and they would lose the $70 mil, lose subscribers for HBO Max, risk the reputation of their new streaming service, drop the price of their stock…because…they don’t like Zack Snyder…some guys in a boardroom who are legally responsible to shareholders all agreed to this? This was their board approved, quarter one, 2021 business plan? You’re kidding, right?

Read Alatar's post for the history lesson. Emmerich didn't approve ZSJL, Kevin Reilly and Robert Greenblatt did.

After that green light decision (and their departure) of course Emmerich would do anything he could to make their decision wrong, and make Snyder look bad, and in turn make himself look good. For the cost of millions of dollars, the companies reputation etc etc. You bet your a$$ if he was going to maintain his position and power.

That's exactly what I mean about Emmerich and his ego above all else. If you think these guys are saints and only have the company in mind, think again.

Alatar's last line sums it up. "Instead WBD might as well capitalize on that success and bring Zack back to complete his saga."

This is exactly what Emmerich should have done right from the get go, embraced it, let bygones be bygones and used Snyder and the fanbase to maximise marketing with the studio accounts to maximise profits. But did he do this, no.

I think Zaslav will restore this line of movies as he doesn't have the baggage and has the actors and story line still in place all ready to go. He has to move quickly and has gone on record showing his top priority to get the trinity, especially Superman, on the big screen. Snyder has also said multiple times he would come back (no doubt on his terms with no Emmerich etc to meddle in the movie + script). But even if Snyder doesn't direct, a couple of Superman movies, the Batfleck movie and then the JL 2 + 3 would make total sense than recasting everyone and coming up with new stories.

But why do I waste my time explaining this to you when you clearly don't want to understand the details of what happened.

 

[Alatar]

So…wait…they gave Zack Snyder $70 million dollars to make his cut of JL so he would fail and they would lose the $70 mil, lose subscribers for HBO Max, risk the reputation of their new streaming service, drop the price of their stock…because…they don’t like Zack Snyder…some guys in a boardroom who are legally responsible to shareholders all agreed to this? This was their board approved, quarter one, 2021 business plan? You’re kidding, right?

But you have to remember that WB sat on the Snyder cut for years. WB never wanted to see it completed and released. The ”they” who funded $70M for completion of ZSJL was AT&T, essentially. At some point prior to May 20th 2020, Zack made his pitch to AT&T, not to WB, by showing them his black and white “214“ (minutes) cut he had assembled on his laptop with unfinished CGI. After AT&T decided to run with it Toby Emmerich called Snyder and asked “is there something we can do here?” Lol. From the description of this by Snyder it sounds like that took place because AT&T flexed on it, not because Emmerich supported it. And bear in mind that the way all of this ultimately played out it ended up making Emmerich look really bad. You’re fairly asking why Emmerich would have animosity towards Snyder and we’re telling you why!

Had AT&T execs Kevin Reaily and Robert Greenblatt not pushed for completion and release of the Snyder cut, and by implication AT&T higher-ups John Stankey and Jason Kilar also not approved it as well, it never would have happened. AT&T did this presumably because of the launch of HBO Max and saw it as a draw to bring in new subscribers. The announcement by Zack that ZSJL would be released was May 20th a full seven months before the streaming service launched Christmas Day 2020 (using the release of Wonder Woman 84 since ZSJL wouldn’t be ready until March 2021). But I think it’s fair to assume that by that time most of the Snyder fandom faithful had already signed up for HBO Max as a gesture of appreciation, demonstration of good faith to AT&T, etc.

Now, as we know, ironically AT&T eventually decided to remain squarely on the tech side and got out of the entertainment business altogether so they sold WarnerMedia to Discovery.

But as far as the Snyder cut goes, the intervention of AT&T to get ZSJL completed and released was like “who was that masked man?” for the Snyderverse fandom, lol. (Dating myself with a reference to the 50s TV serial the Lone Ranger.)

Regarding board room (i.e., major investors) discussion about all this remember too that WB had been in something of a holding pattern with its plan for DC IPs until Discovery completed it’s acquisition of WarnerMedia just this month. They were all waiting to see what David Zaslav wanted to do. The trades have reported that Zaslav has been playing things “close to the vest” and that was making a lot of people at WarnerMedia very anxious. But that being said I suspect that Toby Emmerich also did everything he could to have the Flash erase the Snyderverse for all practical purpose. I think Emmerich knows that he’s just being kept around for the transition because everything that David Zaslav reportedly wants to do, Emmerich worked squarely against. That is indisputable really. Interestingly, though, since the “merger” (absorption of WarnerMedia by Discovery) we saw that all films release was pushed back, and there is talk of reshoots. We know that the Flash ending was reshot to keep Batfleck alive and in the Knightmare timeline.

 

[Hoody999]

But you have to remember that WB sat on the Snyder cut for years. WB never wanted to see it completed and released. The ”they” who funded $70M for completion of ZSJL was AT&T, essentially. At some point prior to May 20th 2020, Zack made his pitch to AT&T, not to WB, by showing them his black and white “214“ (minutes) cut he had assembled on his laptop with unfinished CGI. After AT&T decided to run with it Toby Emmerich called Snyder and asked “is there something we can do here?” Lol. From the description of this by Snyder it sounds like that took place because AT&T flexed on it, not because Emmerich supported it. And bear in mind that the way all of this ultimately played out it ended up making Emmerich look really bad. You’re fairly asking why Emmerich would have animosity towards Snyder and we’re telling you why!

Had AT&T execs Kevin Reaily and Robert Greenblatt not pushed for completion and release of the Snyder cut, and by implication AT&T higher-ups John Stankey and Jason Kilar also not approved it as well, it never would have happened. AT&T did this presumably because of the launch of HBO Max and saw it as a draw to bring in new subscribers. The announcement by Zack that ZSJL would be released was May 20th a full seven months before the streaming service launched Christmas Day 2020 (using the release of Wonder Woman 84 since ZSJL wouldn’t be ready until March 2021). But I think it’s fair to assume that by that time most of the Snyder fandom faithful had already signed up for HBO Max as a gesture of appreciation, demonstration of good faith to AT&T, etc.

Now, as we know, ironically AT&T eventually decided to remain squarely on the tech side and got out of the entertainment business altogether so they sold WarnerMedia to Discovery.

But as far as the Snyder cut goes, the intervention of AT&T to get ZSJL completed and released was like “who was that masked man?” for the Snyderverse fandom, lol. (Dating myself with a reference to the 50s TV serial the Lone Ranger.)

For me (and probably many of the original people who started the SnyderCut movement) a lot of my support comes simply from the dirty underhanded way WB (Emmerich et al) handled the whole situation with Zack and his personal tragedy, and continued to fight it for the sake of their own egos.

This was probably also the driving force why Zack took the fandome under his wing rather than simply walk away. I mean the money donated for Suicide Prevention was not negligable.

I guess the fact of where we are now is fate or karma or whatever you want to call it for Emmerich.

As I've said before, the sooner Emmerich goes the better......

 

[jal76]

But you have to remember that WB sat on the Snyder cut for years. WB never wanted to see it completed and released. The ”they” who funded $70M for completion of ZSJL was AT&T, essentially. At some point prior to May 20th 2020, Zack made his pitch to AT&T, not to WB, by showing them his black and white “214“ (minutes) cut he had assembled on his laptop with unfinished CGI. After AT&T decided to run with it Toby Emmerich called Snyder and asked “is there something we can do here?” Lol. From the description of this by Snyder it sounds like that took place because AT&T flexed on it, not because Emmerich supported it. And bear in mind that the way all of this ultimately played out it ended up making Emmerich look really bad. You’re fairly asking why Emmerich would have animosity towards Snyder and we’re telling you why!

Had AT&T execs Kevin Reaily and Robert Greenblatt not pushed for completion and release of the Snyder cut, and by implication AT&T higher-ups John Stankey and Jason Kilar also not approved it as well, it never would have happened. AT&T did this presumably because of the launch of HBO Max and saw it as a draw to bring in new subscribers. The announcement by Zack that ZSJL would be released was May 20th a full seven months before the streaming service launched Christmas Day 2020 (using the release of Wonder Woman 84 since ZSJL wouldn’t be ready until March 2021). But I think it’s fair to assume that by that time most of the Snyder fandom faithful had already signed up for HBO Max as a gesture of appreciation, demonstration of good faith to AT&T, etc.

Now, as we know, ironically AT&T eventually decided to remain squarely on the tech side and got out of the entertainment business altogether so they sold WarnerMedia to Discovery.

But as far as the Snyder cut goes, the intervention of AT&T to get ZSJL completed and released was like “who was that masked man?” for the Snyderverse fandom, lol. (Dating myself with a reference to the 50s TV serial the Lone Ranger.)

Regarding board room (i.e., major investors) discussion about all this remember too that WB had been in something of a holding pattern with its plan for DC IPs until Discovery completed it’s acquisition of WarnerMedia just this month. They were all waiting to see what David Zaslav wanted to do. The trades have reported that Zaslav has been playing things “close to the vest” and that was making a lot of people at WarnerMedia very anxious. But that being said I suspect that Toby Emmerich also did everything he could to have the Flash erase the Snyderverse for all practical purpose. I think Emmerich knows that he’s just being kept around for the transition because everything that David Zaslav reportedly wants to do, Emmerich worked squarely against. That is indisputable really. Interestingly, though, since the “merger” (absorption of WarnerMedia by Discovery) we saw that all films release was pushed back, and there is talk of reshoots. We know that the Flash ending was reshot to keep Batfleck alive and in the Knightmare timeline.

I think I may have figured out where your confusion is coming from on all of this…
If everything in this conspiracy is based upon dates, and the dates are incorrect, it may be an issue.
You do realize that I was watching HBO Max at home in May of 2020?
By the time WW84 aired I had already been watching HBO Max for seven months? How could WW84 have “launched” a streaming service that I had already been enjoying for more than half a year?

 

[Alatar]

I think I may have figured out where your confusion is coming from on all of this…
If everything in this conspiracy is based upon dates, and the dates are incorrect, it may be an issue.
You do realize that I was watching HBO Max at home in May of 2020?
By the time WW84 aired I had already been watching HBO Max for seven months? How could WW84 have “launched” a streaming service that I had already been enjoying for more than half a year?

Thank you, my bad on confusion about HBO Max’s launch date. That part of the chronology I got wrong. My main points still stand about WB’s and AT&T’s respective positions on the Snyder cut, though. And especially AT&T’s intervention to get it completed and released. The timeline doesn’t really alter any of that significantly.

HBO Max officially launched May 27, 2020. The announcement that it would do so in May 2020 was made October 29, 2019. On May 20, 2020, one week prior HBO Max’s launch, Zack Snyder had his MoS watch party and announced that the Snyder cut was going to be released on HBO Max. I think even then he said it wouldn’t be ready until at least March 2021.

I think what I did was to conflate the event of the first release of a brand new blockbuster film, WW84, on Christmas Day 2020, through the new streaming platform since the start of the pandemic. Like prior to that everything had gotten shut down during the pandemic. Well, with the exception of Tenet having a brief theater run in November 2020 to sort of test the waters, IIRC. Actually AT&T’s decision (announced by Jason Kilar) to release every WB movie slated in 2020 concurrently with HBO Max streaming was something WB Pictures felt very bitter about, according to some insider sources.

But anyway, the rest of what I laid out there isn’t affected by that chronology. The main point is that AT&T was motivated to try to increase subscriptions and viewership in getting the Snyder cut completed and released. And mind you, I’m not asserting that that was AT&T’s sole strategy to get HBO Max’s numbers improved, lol. But that’s evidently why AT&T felt the Snyder cut was a reasonable investment. WB was dead set on shutting the Snyderverse down prior to AT&T taking over, and WB continued to feel that way during their uneasy alliance with AT&T. It seems that even with the AT&T/WB merger WB managed to maintain its autonomy. But I’m sure David Zaslav studied that history when Discovery negotiated to acquire WarnerMedia. Because it looks like Discovery has full control, and WarnerMedia is basically being absorbed. Zaslav is completely calling the shots. But for all we really know maybe he supports Toby Emmerich! I will add that the tea leaves thus far don‘t suggest that. But again on May 18th with the big roll out of content that WBD intends to give us, I think we should have our answer.

 

[hbhf]

The upfront came and went and the only DCEU thing there was season 2 of Peacemaker.

Remember what I said about grifters? Anyone who was gassing y’all up about the 18th was just playing for clout.

There was however, this little nugget in the media today.



Yeah, like I said earlier, lavish streaming projects do not sound like the sort of thing Zaslav is going to be pushing for.

 

[Alatar]

Haha, so much for "shock and awe." The stock price fell today but that may be related to Netflix recently having cratered and decreased investor enthusiasm about streaming in general.

It's always safest to set expectations low. There's a difference between hopes and expectations, though.

I just know that what WB was planning on serving up wasn't for me, and unless I get some Snyderverse I really don't care about the movies and TV shows WBD puts out. That was the case well before "Upfront," though. Upfront certainly did not increase my interest.

If there's no continuation of the Snyderverse in any way, shape, or form, it'll be intriguing to see just how much interest the DC brand generates. Many feel The Batman really should easily have made $1B.

 

[hbhf]

And as we’ve established, it’s not the first DC film that “should’ve easily made a billion” but failed to do so. I kid, I kid.

It made a profit and the HBO Max numbers are great, so the sequel they’ve already announced will likely do better.

 

[Alatar]

And as we’ve established, it’s not the first DC film that “should’ve easily made a billion” but failed to do so. I kid, I kid.

It made a profit and the HBO Max numbers are great, so the sequel they’ve already announced will likely do better.

Actually, my point is that the fandom is divided, so BvS not making $1B is very pertinent. BvS and The Batman both failing to make $1B possibly reflects… well, personally I think does reflect, but it’s a theory, so… that the DC fandom is heavily divided regarding its basic taste. BvS didn‘t satisfy fans that want a more mainstream MCU-like approach to storytelling. Which honestly is fair enough, because what Snyder did with BvS was pretty damn radical in terms of its deconstruction and extremely heavy in its use of symbolism as a visual shorthand (like comic panels). And I think overall The Batman felt anemic to Snyderverse fans—yes, dark and adult in tone, but still like a pale imitation of what Snyder does. Also, I suspect many Snyderverse fans avoided seeing The Batman in the theater because they’re still pissed that there’s no announcement of continuation of Snyder’s five film saga.

So there’s a divide in the fandom that WB pridefully refused to deal with, and WBD now has to figure out how to handle. They ignore it or minimize it at their own peril in terms of engaging the entire potential audience.

 

[hbhf]

TBH, I doubt they have to worry about any supposed divide hurting The Batman. It had great legs and word of mouth and has done gangbusters on HBO Max by all available info. The sequels already been announced and will likely do very well again.

 

[Alatar]

Well, that’s a reasonable narrative I would say. But The Batman did not make $1B and they would love to start seeing their DC films regularly making that kind of money.

If WBD decides to abandon Snyderverse fans… which is clearly a distinct possibility and always has been (or well, it has even been the “smart money” according to most pundits)… then that’s the bed they will have made, and they will lie in it. But as you say, maybe they are satisfied enough with the results without the Snyderverse fandom engaged.

 

[Hoody999]

Haha, so much for "shock and awe." The stock price fell today but that may be related to Netflix recently having cratered and decreased investor enthusiasm about streaming in general.

It's always safest to set expectations low. There's a difference between hopes and expectations, though.

I just know that what WB was planning on serving up wasn't for me, and unless I get some Snyderverse I really don't care about the movies and TV shows WBD puts out. That was the case well before "Upfront," though. Upfront certainly did not increase my interest.

If there's no continuation of the Snyderverse in any way, shape, or form, it'll be intriguing to see just how much interest the DC brand generates. Many feel The Batman really should easily have made $1B.

Exactly. "Shockless and Aweless" But there seemed to be nothing for films. Only TV or ? Films are their biggest gun.

But what gets me is the stuff from Zack and Clay Staub ?? Maybe they were played by WB as well in an attempt to discredit them in the fanbase eyes ?

Who knows. But either way WBD needs to p their game quick if that's all they've got !

 

[Alatar]

Exactly. "Shockless and Aweless" But there seemed to be nothing for films. Only TV or ? Films are their biggest gun.

But what gets me is the stuff from Zack and Clay Staub ?? Maybe they were played by WB as well in an attempt to discredit them in the fanbase eyes ?

Who knows. But either way WBD needs to p their game quick if that's all they've got !

Yeah, and I think also of David Ayer tweeting that he was boarding a plane the day before the “Upfront” event (he lives in LA and the event was held at MSG in NYC).

Hey, it very well could be what you speculate there. Maybe stringing them along with the plan to ultimately discredit them. Because I don‘t see any of them regularly posting cryptic images of hope just to “get clicks” or “get attention.” It doesn’t read that way at all in terms of their apparent basic personalities.

I’m obviously a huge fan of what Snyder was doing with the characters. But the other stuff I see such as by Jenkins, Wan, Sandburg, Reeves, et al., just doesn’t engage me much. I’m a niche fan in that sense, I guess.

If the Snyderverse ends up being officially kaput there’s plenty of other things to satisfy my fantasy-adventure tastes. MCU, Rebel Moon, Amazon’s Rings of Power, Stranger Things season 4, etc. I won’t be patronizing WBD’s DC offerings though. At least not in the movie theater. And if there’s no more Snyderverse I’ll probably drop HBO Max. If there’s something on HBO Max not DC related I feel I need to see, I can either buy the 4K disk for it or wait for it to eventually make it to Amazon Prime.

 

[Hoody999]

Yeah, and I think also of David Ayer tweeting that he was boarding a plane the day before the “Upfront” event (he lives in LA and the event was held at MSG in NYC).

Hey, it very well could be what you speculate there. Maybe stringing them along with the plan to ultimately discredit them. Because I don‘t see any of them regularly posting cryptic images of hope just to “get clicks” or “get attention.” It doesn’t read that way at all in terms of their apparent basic personalities.

I’m obviously a huge fan of what Snyder was doing with the characters. But the other stuff I see such as by Jenkins, Wan, Sandburg, Reeves, et al., just doesn’t engage me much. I’m a niche fan in that sense, I guess.

If the Snyderverse ends up being officially kaput there’s plenty of other things to satisfy my fantasy-adventure tastes. MCU, Rebel Moon, Amazon’s Rings of Power, Stranger Things season 4, etc. I won’t be patronizing WBD’s DC offerings though. At least not in the movie theater. And if there’s no more Snyderverse I’ll probably drop HBO Max. If there’s something on HBO Max not DC related I feel I need to see, I can either buy the 4K disk for it or wait for it to eventually make it to Amazon Prime.

Exactly. If they are too stupid to use what they have at their disposal now with the Snyderverse, then I'll also move away to all those other offerings. I mean it's not like they were offering any "amazing stuff" at that Upfront.

That said, perhaps the Fandome event is the more appropriate event for "Shock and Awe" for movie related stuff. I'll hold my breath though on that though.

 

[hbhf]

But what gets me is the stuff from Zack and Clay Staub ?? Maybe they were played by WB as well in an attempt to discredit them in the fanbase eyes ?

Or fans were just reading into things that weren’t there. I saw a bunch of people claiming a Snyder workout pic was clearly a hint he was having something announced at the upfront, and that seemed to me like a classic example of seeing what they wanted to see.

It’s like I said weeks ago regarding the reshoots. The simplest explanation is oftentimes the correct one.

 

[Alatar]

Exactly. If they are too stupid to use what they have at their disposal now with the Snyderverse, then I'll also move away to all those other offerings. I mean it's not like they were offering any "amazing stuff" at that Upfront.

That said, perhaps the Fandome event is the more appropriate event for "Shock and Awe" for movie related stuff. I'll hold my breath though on that though.

I watched a little bit of Dave Peña last night (hadn’t watched him in about a year now) and Dave commented that “Upfroot” events are basically inside the industry and geared toward advertisers. The event was RSVP! It required a passcode, lol. It wasn‘t for the masses. It was a focused event for advertisers they invited.

Maybe the “shock and awe” is yet to come at DC Fandome. But thus far there is no date yet set for this year’s Fandome. Maybe WBD is still sorting all that out with DC.

 

[Alatar]

Or fans were just reading into things that weren’t there. I saw a bunch of people claiming a Snyder workout pic was clearly a hint he was having something announced at the upfront, and that seemed to me like a classic example of seeing what they wanted to see.

It’s like I said weeks ago regarding the reshoots. The simplest explanation is oftentimes the correct one.

Due to his various NDAs with WB Snyder has made cryptic posts nearly an art form. I just mean that there’s a perfectly vaild reason that fans “read in” to his posts! Maybe there was nothing to this particular post, but regarding people actively searching for clues in his posts in general, I mean.

Occum’s razor is often true, but imo overvalued. See at 18:39. I agree with Rob!:



He overstates what Occum’s razor is, i.e., according to that rubric the simplest explanation is actually “most likely true” not “always the true thing” as Ager frames it. But looking past that relatively minor error the gist of his argument is basically on point. Examples abound in science. Without a doubt in physics, but the list goes on and on. According to Occum’s razor style thinking it was silly to think beyond a Copernican astronomy—obviously the sun revloves around the earth. Why go on a wild goose chase to come up with a more complicated explanation? Etc.

 

[hbhf]

Yeah, I’m just gonna reiterate my previous post. No slight intended. Is it possible that Snyder, Ayer and Staub were all promised their new movies would be announced, only for WB/D to pull the rug out at the very last minute (so last minute that Ayer got on a plane to show up at the presentation before being told it wasn’t happening) as part of a sinister scheme to discredit them? Sure. I could also win a hundred million in the lottery tomorrow.

If the choice is the above theory or that fans simply hyped themselves up over something that was never in the cards for the upfront (which has happened with this exact fandom multiple times), I’m going to go with the latter.

 

[Alatar]

Yeah, I’m just gonna reiterate my previous post. No slight intended. Is it possible that Snyder, Ayer and Staub were all promised their new movies would be announced, only for WB/D to pull the rug out at the very last minute (so last minute that Ayer got on a plane to show up at the presentation before being told it wasn’t happening) as part of a sinister scheme to discredit them? Sure. I could also win a hundred million in the lottery tomorrow.

If the choice is the above theory or that fans simply hyped themselves up over something that was never in the cards for the upfront (which has happened with this exact fandom multiple times), I’m going to go with the latter.

Okay. Reasonable.

Edit: Actually, not entirely. (Doh! I couldn‘t just leave it there, lol.)

If that’s how you see it fwiw no problem from me. Like you do you, etc. I genuinely respect your right to your opinion, your right to express it, and so forth.

But what we were discussing above is that Snyder, Staub, and Ayer have clearly been teasing something. If anyone thinks that’s imagined that’s not really acknowledging the hx of the RTSC/RTAC movement and how Snyder and Ayer have communicated to fans throughout. So our point was that it would be out of character for them to encourage hope without there being some “there” there. At least if our read on their basic personalities is fairly accurate.

Now does that set up a dynamic that has people reading in to everything in the way that they most hope to see it? And to make people as hopeful as possible? Yes. They are guilty of creating that. With the best of intentions I trust. But yes.

 

[Hoody999]

I see there is this Bruce Wayne figure up at Toys Wonderland - Mr Rich