Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[Random_Retard]

They're not reviews. They're very detailed explanations, going scene by scene, of how the film being studied, in this case Rebel Moon, is deeply flawed.
This particular YouTuber has a very good series on the Hobbit movies. Here he nicely points out the many issues Rebel Moon has, why they're an issue and what could have been done instead.

Still... it's kinda weird...
I mean... if I like the film I'm not going to watch a 2 hour video of someone telling me what is wrong with the thing I like.
And if I didn't like the film I really don't wanna waste even more time thinking about it. Especially not 2 hours.

But it might be interesting for film students... maybe...

 

[T8OO]

Still... it's kinda weird...
I mean... if I like the film I'm not going to watch a 2 hour video of someone telling me what is wrong with the thing I like.
And if I didn't like the film I really don't wanna waste even more time thinking about it. Especially not 2 hours.

But it might be interesting for film students... maybe...

Pretty much what I was going to say. Even as a film student wouldn't you want something a bit more serious and not taking childish potshots trying to be funny? Also wouldn't they pick something that isn't about to have the "filmmakers vision" released in a few months?

 

[Random_Retard]

A 2 hour video for the passionate hater, I guess, or for the disappointed fan who just can't fathom why a movie with a lot of potential turned out to be not to their liking...

Well... being the retard that I am... I actually watched this (more like listened to it while doing some other stuff on the side)... but... can't really say that The Random Film Talk guy is wrong...
I actually agree with most of what he says. It's just not a really good movie for a lot of reasons...
I am going to watch the extended cut nonetheless. Maybe that will change my view about it.

BUT if you like the film please don't waste your time watching a video like that. Just enjoy the movie and be happy. There is nothing wrong with that. Life is better that way.

 

[ironwez20]

Pretty much what I was going to say. Even as a film student wouldn't you want something a bit more serious and not taking childish potshots trying to be funny? Also wouldn't they pick something that isn't about to have the "filmmakers vision" released in a few months?

Oh stop you just mad that they are talking about a snyder movie . You'd watch the hell out a 4 hr breakdown on why a gunn made movie wasn't good compared to the snyder cut or something like that lol

 

[ironwez20]

A 2 hour video for the passionate hater, I guess, or for the disappointed fan who just can't fathom why a movie with a lot of potential turned out to be not to their liking...

Well... being the retard that I am... I actually watched this (more like listened to it while doing some other stuff on the side)... but... can't really say that The Random Film Talk guy is wrong...
I actually agree with most of what he says. It's just not a really good movie for a lot of reasons...
I am going to watch the extended cut nonetheless. Maybe that will change my view about it.

BUT if you like the film please don't waste your time watching a video like that. Just enjoy the movie and be happy. There is nothing wrong with that. Life is better that way.

Yea I don't get those vids either but they do kinda do a deep dive into some of of the stuff you'd miss and give better insight on the movie or something like that. Idk. If it's a two hr hate vid then that would be weird lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

If there's "praise" vids then there should be "haze" vids.

 

[Random_Retard]

Yea I don't get those vids either but they do kinda do a deep dive into some of of the stuff you'd miss and give better insight on the movie or something like that. Idk. If it's a two hr hate vid then that would be weird lol

He does actually give a lot of insight. So if that's your thing the video is not bad at all by no means.

Maybe I just come from a different time... but back in the day when you didn't like a film you just forgot about it and moved on... Do people do this with books as well nowadays? You know, writing essays about why this particular book they read sucked and explaining every detail and analyzing it to death?
Kinda a funny thought... People are weird.

 

[T8OO]

Oh stop you just mad that they are talking about a snyder movie . You'd watch the hell out a 4 hr breakdown on why a gunn made movie wasn't good compared to the snyder cut or something like that lol

Maybe that's just another way you and I are different.

 

[ironwez20]

Maybe that's just another way you and I are different.

So you would watch a 4 hr deep dive video on why Snyder is better than James Gunn?

 

[T8OO]

So you would watch a 4 hr deep dive video on why Snyder is better than James Gunn?

Not at all. That's like watching a 4-hour video on why receiving money is better than getting kicked in the face.

 

[Jmek]

So who’s up for part two then?

Apart from me I mean

 

[Random_Retard]

So who’s up for part two then?

Apart from me I mean

Of course I'm going to watch it. That's the completionist in me, I guess

I'm just not sure yet if I'm going to watch the cut version when it's released or wait for the extended cut this time around...

 

[Wor-Gar]

Unless I hear its good, I'll likely not watch Part II.

Not looking forward to the ads all these streaming services are now adding to your experience. Inevitable, but dreaded.

Look for snipes to be the next thing interrupting your viewing pleasure.

 

[Alatar]

From the I Minutemen video linked above, here’s a transcription of what Zack has to say about the director’s cuts of Rebel Moon (starting at about 1:40).

We’re working on finishing the director’s cuts. And those will probably come out on the same day in the summer. They’re each like an hour longer than the PG13 cuts. So it’s nice to see the six hours together. You can take a break of course! I think it’s a more immersive experience. I’m interested for people to see it that way because it’s very adult, R-rated. For the true fans. Why I made the movie.

The reason I was able to make the movies I’m working on now (the director’s cuts) is because I made the PG13 cuts for Netflix’s broader audience. And then I could make the more boutique-y, impossible movie.

The way we think about making movies… (is) now the thesis is trying to make movies that have no business existing! The hardcore version of all my movies shouldn’t exist from sort of an economic standpoint. But over time you realize that’s the best version of the movie that people will want to see. It’s an interesting sort of experiment, if you will, in how you present material.

In this case I was able to negotiate and make a great deal with Netflix. And they were actually very courageous and honorable to take on this concept where if I could make them a PG13 version of the movie that’s close to two hours long out of this insanity that I thought of, then they would let me do whatever I want with the director’s cuts. Conceptually they went into it knowing that, which I thought was really cool.

And since I knew that, it made it a kind of different experience. Something I’ve never done before where I knew I had the director’s cuts in my pocket. So I felt a little more freedom. Because I know they would see the light of day, they would exist.

I think what you get from the extended version is it’s a little bit more deconstructivist. It takes it apart a bit more. I think the adult violence and sex and the sort of over-the-topness of the idea allows you to see the idea from another perspective, an adult perspective. We all grew up with this stuff. So now that we’re grown what does it mean now? Like what are the tropes, why do the tropes exist and what do they mean? And I think that’s a lot more in evidence.

I think the PG13 versions are really earnest. They really end up being really earnest and serious. And I’m not saying that the R-rated version is funny or a comedy. It’s not at all. It’s super hardcore. But they’re so hardcore that they actually offer relief. Because some of the violence is so over-the-top that you can be separated from its reality. And then you can understand what I was sort of looking for from the genre.

There’s such a crazy and vast mythological landscape in the constructs of science fiction that sort of touches on every aspect of mythmaking and storytelling and archetypal ways of expressing

For me, I think it’s so rich. In this R-rated cut you really do get an opportunity to kind of see those things a little clearer, I guess. If that makes any sense.

And here’s a transcription of what he says about the how important the deconstruction process is to him as a filmmaker, starting at about 9:50:

I’m fascinated by the archetypal, constant primordial hero’s journey that exists in numerous cultures in the same way. And why. And what about that. I also have a great reverence for this hero striking forth from the village and going on this great adventure into the underworld, or the over(world), or wherever it is and bringing bounty back for the people. And the whole cycle is something I find really fascinating.

That said, I think another part of me wants to poke holes in it to destroy it. Not to destroy it out of violence. But to see how it’s made. To crack its shell and understand it. It’s elusive and it’s impossible. Because I love it. So I won’t destroy it completely. I’m in this strange battle with myself to destroy and repair, destroy and repair. Never take it all the way down. Your myths are only as good as what they can take. What can your myth stand as far as deconstruction? Like if you break its canon can it survive? For instance, Batman doesn’t kill anyone. It’s impossible for him to kill. If he kills what is he? He is gone. He is no longer your hero. He is no longer Batman. Is he something else? The thing I’m fascinated by is what is it that breaks the myth that you love? It’s a question that I grapple with quite a bit. And frankly it fuels me. And I love walking that edge.

It is what Watchmen is in a lot of ways. And why I was so attracted to it. It’s a piece of work I think is incredible. Because it does exactly that in a really perfect way. It says these are gods. Then it says the gods are us. And the gods are broken. But it also says that there’s a way through. There’s hope. It has darkness in it. And it’s crazy. But there’s hope in it. That’s why it doesn’t break.

That’s why I’m attracted the same with The Dark Knight Returns. Dark Knight Returns takes it all apart—all the way. But loves it at the same time. That’s been the way I’ve looked at it.

 

[Alatar]

He must've been really tired for that I Minutemen interview because he stammered so badly that I had to consolidate what he said without all the “ums,” likes,” and “you knows.” Everything in my transcription is accurate but the interview itself is almost painful to try to listen to, lol.

He was fully coherent on Joe Rogan the other day:



And I’ll go through and note the timestamps for when he talks about genre deconstruction in general, deconstructing Superman and Batman specifically, and the influence of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns, the two groundbreaking and seminal deconstructions in comics from 1986, upon him in overall. And obviously the influence of those two comics in making in the DC trilogy. And the huge influence of Heavy Metal magazine on him during the 80s.

The main reason I’m posting this is… and apologies that I’m a broken record on this… after watching many interviews with Snyder over the last decade spurred by my fascination with what he’s done with the DC characters, in discussions about his work I assert that to appreciate it properly one has to acknowledge that he is heavy, balls deep, into genre deconstruction. And in fact that isn’t really debatable. It’s actually clear to anyone that’s watched interviews with him. He’s not the most articulate man in the world, but he’s not vague about that. He specifically uses the term “deconstruction.” He describes in detail aspects of the movies in deconstructive terms.

For me the deconstruction works magnificently with BvS in particular. Extremely well with MoS also. ZSJL is more of an attempted elegiac reconstruction that ironically emphasizes things really can’t be the same after deconstruction.

Given how massively upset so many fans were at seeing their DC heroes deconstructed, for Snyder next to deconstruct the beloved “Star Wars” space opera film—the genre and its mythology both—seems like a sort of career death wish. It’s incredibly subversive from an artistic standpoint.

What’s most fascinating to me is his decision to use of the Heavy Metal magazine template in order to deconstruct that genre. That’s what the director’s cuts are, he says. We won’t see them until “late summer” (August?) he says on Rogan, which is when Part 1 and 2 will simultaneously be released on Netflix, to be watched back to back over 6 hours.

In the meantime we’ll have the “serious and ernest” PG13 cuts after Part 2 releases next month—but which he admits to Rogan was difficult for him to make since they’re really not the deconstructivist version that he actually felt the creative urge to make.

I’m not sure how well realistically rendered (and visually artful) over-the-top violence—and full-on sex scenes—is going to work out to deconstruct the space opera. Like how well is applying that Heavy Metal template to Star Wars going to make us look at the genre from outside of the soothing pure escapism of the conventional genre treatment. Deconstruction is meant to disturb, not soothe. But there should still be something oddly pleasing about being shaken out of the stupor of total fantasy escapism. Will we get it here? I honestly don’t know. I’ll be mesmerized by it, I’m sure. But will it feel disturbing yet oddly satisfying? We’ll see.

 

[Otomofan]

He blathers on in the same way he makes his movies: bloated and repetitive but without an ounce of substance.

I think the adult violence and sex and the sort of over-the-topness of the idea allows you to see the idea from another perspective, an adult perspective. We all grew up with this stuff. So now that we’re grown what does it mean now? Like what are the tropes, why do the tropes exist and what do they mean? And I think that’s a lot more in evidence.

Anyone wanna translate this buzzword-laden gibberish into a coherent thought?

 

[Alatar]

He blathers on in the same way he makes his movies: bloated and repetitive but without an ounce of substance.

I think the adult violence and sex and the sort of over-the-topness of the idea allows you to see the idea from another perspective, an adult perspective. We all grew up with this stuff. So now that we’re grown what does it mean now? Like what are the tropes, why do the tropes exist and what do they mean? And I think that’s a lot more in evidence.

Anyone wanna translate this buzzword-laden gibberish into a coherent thought?

Well, bear in mind, he’s deconstructing the Star Wars space opera genre by giving it a sort of Heavy Metal, B-movie fantasy-adventure treatment. At least with the director’s cuts. Which we haven’t seen yet. We only have the PG13 cut for Part 1 as yet.

There’s a wholesomeness to Star Wars that he’s actively deconstructing by making it sexual and super violent. Star Wars has a lot of combat, battling to the death, and warfare, but we don’t see any blood or gore, or not much anyway. And it’s sanitized of sex. Snyder is going the other direction with it.

In other interviews Snyder has described that the Heavy Metal magazine had a tremendous influence on him when he was a teenager. The sex and violence of it was like a kind of forbidden fruit when he was that age. He was enthralled with its aesthetic.

He’s also in those interviews talked about the difference in the way we experience things when we’re young and extremely impressionable and how that changes as we age. He’s said that he’s interested in exploring the relationship between the impressionable type of experience when young and the more mature appreciation as an adult.

I think it has to do psychologically with what genre deconstruction mirrors in individual personal development, which is very similar to the structure of the hero’s journey. The short version: once the soothing escapism of the conventional genre experience has been deconstructed, you really can’t see the tropes in the way you did innocently prior to the deconstruction. You can’t go home again, as the old saying goes.

 

[ironwez20]

Deconstructing…. More like like ripping off lmao

 

[Alatar]

If one wishes to view it through a negative lens that’s a choice to make, sure.

 

[ironwez20]

lol I really am just kidding tbh. I don’t necessarily think that about the whole film