Zack Snyder's SUCKER PUNCH

[YoNoSe]

It's been a while since I've watched it, but didn't Spike rape Buffy in one of the later season's episodes?

He tried to. I think it was Season 6? Not sure.

 

[CelticPredator]

Surprising considering you're an Alien fan: Ellen Ripley.

Alien 3, Ripley almost gets raped. The guy had rape goggles and everything!

 

[fosing]

rape and revenge? exploitation movie? Run Betch Run.

not as tragic but more tasteless than this movie.

 

[CelticPredator]

^ It's really not that bad in this movie....

 

[Cloud]

^ It's really not that bad in this movie....

I hope that's the case. If someone wants to see it with me I will go, if not I'll probably catch it on Netflix eventually.

But you can see my reasoning, as I'm already predisposed to dislike it because of what I'm reading in this thread. And you know I'm like a dog with a bone when I have valid reason to argue. I don't want to watch the movie and end up being right about how I'm interpreting some people's posts.

 

[The Josh]

 

[CelticPredator]

I hope that's the case. If someone wants to see it with me I will go, if not I'll probably catch it on Netflix eventually.

But you can see my reasoning, as I'm already predisposed to dislike it because of what I'm reading in this thread. And you know I'm like a dog with a bone when I have valid reason to argue. I don't want to watch the movie and end up being right about how I'm interpreting some people's posts.

There's 2 scenes....and like I said, they both DO end well. No one gets raped on screen. And the implied stuff is very much implied. Not overt, or in your face.

Spoiler

One has a big fan man attacking a woman on the ground and the main character saves her.

The other scene is where the main villian tries, and rams her against a mirror, and he says "You lost your fight..." she replies, while grabbing a knife "I just found it." and stabs him. So she gets away.

 

[Biojex]

Alien 3, Ripley almost gets raped. The guy had rape goggles and everything!

But she was a strong fighter before that happened.

 

[Cloud]

Batman could take Ironman.

 

[316what]

She's a lunatic, a victim, and really loses the battle in the end.

Baby Doll accidentally kills her sister while trying to protect her. The she "protects" Sweet Pea and helps her escape, thus gaining some level of redemption for not being able to save her sister. I don't see that as losing the battle in the end.

 

[devilof76]

Not everyone subscribes to the Randroid dictionary.

How many people subscribe to common sense?

Juxtapose that with how many zombies subscribe to post-modern radical social theory.

Nobody claimed this.

I wasn't clear. What I meant was that suffragism has nothing to do with feminism. All people have the right to representation in their government, and there is nothing special about women being denied that right, or racial minorities, or any particular demographic.

Is the act of a man standing up for his rights masculism?

Speaking as a victim of sexual abuse, and a headstrong female (though I wouldn't say feminist), I don't see any connection, whatsoever, between female equality and rape. None. Anywhere. Rape is not a female-specific crime. Men are raped, by men AND women. Sure not as often but it does happen. But that's neither here nor there.

You don't see rape as a violation of female equality?

That's the only connection I'm aware of. What I am saying is that the only time someone needs 'empowerment' is when power has been taken from them, and the only way to take power from a woman qua woman, is through rape. If feminism is a doctrine of female empowerment, then rape is integral to the doctrine.

A man raped by another man has been feminized. A man raped by a woman was feminized to begin with.

And there was rape in 300, attempted rape in Watchmen, and apparently (I don't think I will be watching this movie) these girls are treated like prostitutes whether in Baby Doll's head or not, or this "Blue" guard guy abuses them, I'm getting enough info from respectable posters to tell me this movie definitely wants to imply sexual abuse (even if it's not on screen - and you guys saying there is such a vast difference between it being shown or not, shut the ____ up).

Spoiler

They are locked in an asylum where one guard takes money from other employees to have sex with the girls. They are physically and sexually abused. They are killed if they try to escape. That is their world. When Baby Doll is committed, she has five days to escape or face lobotomy, paid for by her stepfather who bribed Blue to forge the head psychologist's signature, so that he can cover his own tracks.

Does that make you want to vomit? Me too. How would it make you feel to watch her do everything she can to defy her fate, and bring down those responsible for the abuse in the process?

Because that is what this movie is.

Sorry IrishJedi, I know you are friends with Zack Snyder (you're defending him like a rabid dog), but it sure sounds to me like he does treat female characters with the mentality of a 14 year old.

Actually, he's persistently defending him against the shallow histrionics of people who want to impugn the director with the same crime he's opposing by making the film.

What would you do if you knew better?

There's nothing admirable about the Baby Doll character that I can find. She's...a victim, and really loses the battle in the end.

Spoiler

She does and she doesn't. She gets the lobotomy. She doesn't lose her virginity. She saves Sweet Pea. Blue loses everything.

If you can watch this and not admire her, I don't know what your problem is.

A man can never tell a woman what girl power is, because he does not know what it's like to be female.

Had it ever occurred to you that men and women have the same 'power'?

He doesn't notice the sexism, the victimization, the feeling of being nothing more than a quick lay, because that's all you're worth. No. A man cannot understand feminism.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Cloud]

Baby Doll accidentally kills her sister while trying to protect her. The she "protects" Sweet Pea and helps her escape, thus gaining some level of redemption for not being able to save her sister. I don't see that as losing the battle in the end.

Spoiler

The four other girls escape the mental institution while she sacrifices herself and gets a lobotomy? That's the only way she can come of looking heroic. Because as is she's just a patient lost in two fantasy worlds who gets lobotomized at the end. And when you get a lobotomy, you lose every battle you ever fought.

 

[devilof76]

That's not what the look on her face said after it happened.

Also, did you notice the title?

But she was a strong fighter before that happened.

But it's not because she's a woman. It's because she's a strong fighter.

 

[Biojex]

But it's not because she's a woman. It's because she's a strong fighter.

I know, that's my point.

 

[devilof76]

Gotcha.

Bear with me. I have been exposed to these fumes for days now.

 

[Cloud]

No point in arguing with Devilo, he KNOWS he's always right about EVERYthing.

"Smart people are very good at rationalizing things they've come to learn for non-smart reasons."
~Dr. Michael Shermer

 

[hunnipot85]

Baby Doll accidentally kills her sister while trying to protect her. The she "protects" Sweet Pea and helps her escape, thus gaining some level of redemption for not being able to save her sister. I don't see that as losing the battle in the end.

Spoiler

I thought the stepfather killed the younger sister?

 

[Biojex]

Gotcha.

Bear with me. I have been exposed to these fumes for days now.

No worries.

Have you decided whether you like or dislike the movie yet?

 

[devilof76]

hunni, that's why she felt strongly enough for Sweet Pea to let her be the one.

No point in arguing with Devilo, he KNOWS he's always right about EVERYthing.

Whatever.

No worries.

Have you decided whether you like or dislike the movie yet?

No.

 

[Jen]

Spoiler

I thought the stepfather killed the younger sister?

Spoiler

I read somewhere that it was the step father that killed the younger sister - but on screen it looked like it was Babydoll who accidentally killed her when she fired the gun at her stepfather and missed. So, I'm not really sure. But regardless - the stepfather wanted to be rid of both of them so he could take control of their mother's money.

Cloud - I will be honest, I wasn't offended by this movie - nor did I feel any sort of empowerment. These girls are in a horrible situation and as someone else said, use their sexuality to get the upper hand in situations against their perpetrators. One girl gets saved in the end and manages to escape. The others are all victims in the end. It is shot beautifully and visually is very stunning. With all the fantasy sequences it made it difficult for me to emotionally connect with any of the characters...even though I knew what was really going on in the unseen reality. In the end I felt like I had just watched a 2 hour trailer.

Spoiler

I'm still not sure if all the girls were actual characters in reality or part of Babydoll's fantasy...so either there was one victim in the end (Babydoll) or there where 4 with 3 of the girls being killed.

I see Babydoll getting the short end of the stick on this one. So she may feel a little better that she was able to help save Sweet Pea after believing she killed her sister (not sure if she actually did or not) but I think that smile on her face at the end was her knowing that with the lobotomy she could forever be in her fantasy world where she was kicking ass...rather than having to be in the real world - locked up in a mental asylum. She is definitely a victim in the end. She fought a good fight for sure...but in the end she loses more than any of the other girls in the film.