12 shot dead at movie theater

[devilof76]

I was going to edit that to say I was taught, but I rejected the lesson. I decided to leave it there because he used 'taught' to imply my decision was made for me, when it was clearly not.

But yeah. Self-taught. Figured it out on my own. Just like a caveman.

 

[Wulf]

A whole species doesn't realize something.

Agreed. It was a short hypothesis of something very complex that really should be explained in hundreds of pages + my English isn't that advanced as yours.

Individuals realize things if they exert the requisite mental effort to understand what they are confronted with. Cognition is an independent activity, and beyond the perceptual level, it is not automatic.

I'd show you some videos where they explain my case much better than I do and where I don't have to take so much of my time to present it but I know you would discard them without watching them like you did in the other thread.

Yes, I chose the food I liked because of the taste. No, I didn't choose which ones tasted good or bad, but that was not the point of your example. The point you made was that you were taught which food to like and which to not. I was not taught.

No, I wasn't saying I was taught to like some kind of food. But taught to eat it and I also decided to eat different kinds of food (of those that was presented to me by external forces) which tasted good to me. But I didn't decide which food should taste good and I didn't decide which food should have been presented to me. Taste can also be developed but it's still not a choice. Not all humans like the same food and they don't decide which food should taste good to them. That was my point.

 

[The Ween]

I stole playboys and candy bars and snuck into movies when I was young, no one influenced me to do it.

I grew up and realized that was wrong.

Never stole again.

And he snuck into Avengers about 20 times.

 

[guyver1]

Anyone surprised that the news and media are isolating the fact that yes this is a shooting, 12 dead, but they are not mentioning the setting that much, disregarding that this happened during a screening of TDKRS.

 

[thenammagazine]

And he snuck into Avengers about 20 times.

That's not what he meant by "using the backdoor at Avengers."

 

[The Ween]

Anyone surprised that the news and media are isolating the fact that yes this is a shooting, 12 dead, but they are not mentioning the setting that much, disregarding that this happened during a screening of TDKRS.

I didn't notice that. It seems to be mentioned quite a bit. Crowded movie theater.

Why should they keep repeating it? Probably everyone knows about that.

 

[thenammagazine]

Anyone surprised that the news and media are isolating the fact that yes this is a shooting, 12 dead, but they are not mentioning the setting that much, disregarding that this happened during a screening of TDKRS.

 

[devilof76]

Agreed. It was a short hypothesis of something very complex that really should be explained in hundreds of pages + my English isn't that advanced as yours.

Ok. But my point was that if someone needs to teach us, the first person to know something could not have been taught, and none of us would ever know anything. If they did it by another means, why could they do it, and the rest of us cannot?

I'd show you some videos where they explain my case much better than I do and where I don't have to take so much of my time to present it but I know you would discard them without watching them like you did in the other thread.

I know the case against free will, and most of its variations. You are correct that I would not watch them. I do not believe that determinism of any kind is a valid characterization of human behavior.

No, I wasn't saying I was taught to like some kind of food. But taught to eat it and I also decided to eat different kinds of food (of those that was presented to me by external forces) which tasted good to me. But I didn't decide which food should taste good and I didn't decide which food should have been presented to me. Taste can also be developed but it's still not a choice. Not all humans like the same food and they don't decide which food should taste good to them. That was my point.

If you mean that taste is not a choice in the way that seeing green when you look at grass is not a choice, then I understand what you mean. The response of the senses to stimuli does not involve choice. Where choice enters is when you begin to evaluate stimulus.

The fact that you do not get to choose the nature of the stimulus does not mean your behavior and personality will be bound by it. It simply means that your choice does not determine the nature of the world.

 

[Wulf]

Ok. But my point was that if someone needs to teach us, the first person to know something could not have been taught, and none of us would ever know anything. If they did it by another means, why could they do it, and the rest of us cannot?

Who?

I know the case against free will, and most of its variations. You are correct that I would not watch them. I do not believe that determinism of any kind is a valid characterization of human behavior.

I do.

If you mean that taste is not a choice in the way that seeing green when you look at grass is not a choice, then I understand what you mean. The response of the senses to stimuli does not involve choice. Where choice enters is when you begin to evaluate stimulus.

The fact that you do not get to choose the nature of the stimulus does not mean your behavior and personaity will be bound by it.

Right. But you said:

I decided which ones I liked and which ones I didn't.

And I'm saying that's not true because you can't decide which food should taste good to you and which shouldn't.

 

[devilof76]

And I said that in the context of thinking you were using taste in food as an example of being influenced by environment. It's not.

Determinism is self-refuting.

What do you mean "who?"

 

[Wulf]

And I said that in the context of thinking you were using taste in food as an example of being influenced by environment. It's not.

Taste can be influenced by environment. Usually people like the cultural food they grow up with while they wouldn't perhaps enjoy that of another culture which those people enjoy. It's not only environment but it plays a role.

You said it in the context that you made the choice to like and dislike certain food as a response to what you thought was me saying that "people teach us which food to like and it's not our choice".

Determinism is self-refuting.

Don't agree but you know this already.

What do you mean "who?"

Who is the "first person" you are talking about?

 

[devilof76]

Either taste is a straight reaction to direct stimuli, or it isn't. Make up your mind. If it is a physical process, then it cannot be influenced by other people's opinions and preferences (i.e. the culture you were raised in).

I agree that people can abstain from making choices about what they think about different tastes, thus allowing the choices of others to mold them. That is still a choice, even if the effects appear to be something they could not control because they were surrounded by people who held one particular opinion or another.

The first person I am talking about is the one who first discovered facts and then had to tranmit them to the rest of us. Since, as you suggested, our development is the result of what other people influence us with, someone had to start it all, right? So how did they get it, with no one to influence them?

 

[Wulf]

Either taste is a straight reaction to direct stimuli, or it isn't. Make up your mind. If it is a physical process, then it cannot be influenced by other people's opinions and preferences (i.e. the culture you were raised in).

You can't decide which food to like, period. Taste can be developed, but it's not a choice you make. The development comes from the food you eat which is the food of your culture/the one you grow up with. If I grow up eating burgers and french fries, it's logical that in most cases I would enjoy this food because I've developed a taste for it. Someone who's never eaten it might not enjoy it or perhaps they can develop a taste to enjoy it in the future. I know I hated eating mushrooms but not anymore. It wasn't my choice that I would suddenly like eating that.

I agree that people can abstain from making choices about what they think about different tastes. That is still a choice, even if the effects appear to be something they could not control because they were surrounded by people who held one particular opinion or another.

No it's not a choice. For an example, it's not my choice that a wound on my body should heal itself. Or it's not my choice to believe in the specific religion that my parents conditioned me to believe in (luckily they didn't do so).

The first person I am talking about is the one who first discovered facts and then had to transmit them to the rest of us. Since, as you suggested, our development is the result of what other people influence us with, someone had to start it all, right? So how did they get it, with no one to influence them?

I don't quite follow. The first human? The first animal? The first lifeform? The first person in our life to teach us something?

 

[CelticPredator]

It's not who we are underneath...but what we do, that defines us,.

Yes I did just do that,

 

[BadMoon]

So much stupid in so many posts. All I can say is we certainly have become an entitled society when we can blame our actions on other ____.

 

[CelticPredator]

Yes we have.

 

[the Doctor]

 

[devilof76]

Some finely tuned horse____ you got there.

Most of those murders were committed by African-Americans. Should we ban them too?

 

[EVILFACE]

Yea, in the other countries they just stab, strangle, poison and beat people to death.

We Americans like to use guns.

 

[BadMoon]

Guess I need not bother to reply to the pic. Devil took care of that.