Abortion doc George Tiller gunned down at church

[jinxx]

or US foreign policy

meh.....it's either you're with them or against them, take your choice....I'd rather debate about Pluto's current status!!!

 

[Karma]

meh.....it's either you're with them or against them, take your choice....I'd rather debate about Pluto's current status!!!

i miss that planet... it was my favourite

 

[Karma]

Well everyone has a different view on the abortion topic. Given many people have differing views on religion as well, it tends to get to be pretty messy.

Given that we live in an age of lawsuits, sexual liberation and entitlement, it's an issue that will tend to be problematic.

From a historical standpoint, the fall of Rome, arguably civilizations archetype of some form of stable society surrounded by pure chaos in the world around it, was often cited as happening for many reasons, but one of them I found extremely interesting. The wealthy and educated were having fewer and fewer children and the poor and uneducated were having more and more children.

The disparity between the two groups, and in modern times, creates a triple burden on the state. First, many children today are being born into single parent or soon to be single parent homes. There is much less social stigma than from earlier times. Statistically speaking, children from single parent homes are less likely to be successful ( defined by seeking and attaining higher education, tending to have lower general socioeconomic status, and worst of all, likely to become single parents themselves, perpetuating the cycle) The single parent stands, on the average, to be a greater drain on the state and require some form of social services help ( i.e. the welfare state concept) to get by. Instead of contributing to the economy as a productive tax payer, the single parent becomes a financial liability.

Many children from single parents homes end up being incarcerated. Not all obviously, but studies done in prison populations show many, an extreme amount, come from single parent homes. This is a second hit on the state. Again, that incarcerated person is not adding to the government coffers as a productive taxpayer, but is yet another drain on existing social services, the penal system and puts stress and harm on society from the commission of crimes and creating a heavier workload for existing law enforcement.

The third hit comes when the child from the single parent home, becomes a single parent themselves on day. People emulate what they see everyday. Children of smokers tend to have a higher risk of becoming a smoker. Drinkers catalyze future drinkers. Child beaters spur new child beaters. College educated tend to have their kids go to college. And on and on and on. Now you have potentially successive generations that are a drain on state and government resources with very little input. Is this all single parents and single parent homes? No, it's not. Are the risks higher in these cases? Yes.

The above is why the poor and educated breeding without checks and balances can be bad for the long term health of any modern society. People often discuss the birthrates in general that are either rising or declining, but they often don't draw socioeconomic distinction for those birth rates. A child born in a home where the parents are college educated and have good jobs and both parents stay married does not mean success. Nothing is guaranteed. But the odds are stronger than if those elements were not present. The reality is educated couples with strong earning power tend to not have 7-8 kids popping out. It's not so often that you will see many these days with even three kids.

Removing the moral implications of abortion,

Children from parents who stay married, are college educated and have strong to stable earning power = Good for society in general = Future consistent taxpayers and consumers being born who stand a less chance of being a drain on existing social services/government resources.

Children from single parent or broken homes, the parents are not college educated and have poor to unstable earning power = Bad for society in general = Future inconsistent or unproductive taxpayers and mixed benefit as consumers ( Spending stupid is great short term for the economy, but on the back end when they can't afford medical care, who pays for that?) being born who stand a greater chance of being a drain on existing social services/government resources.

From a moral standpoint, I can't tell anyone how to feel about abortion.

From a logistical and financial standpoint, I can say a total lack of abortion would cause a social and financial nightmare of unimagined proportions. If every woman who got pregnant had a baby absolutely, who is going to pay for all those kids? Where are they all going to go? It's not like all single parents out there are budding millionaires or rocket scientists. Many are living close to the poverty line and living check to check. Taxpayers would have to pay, that's who would pay.

I'm not pissing on people here who are single parents or came from single parent homes, I'm saying fundamentally speaking, our society has seemed to forget that little nuance of life called NATURAL SELECTION. The survival of our species and the sustained viability of our society depends on the weak and stupid and incapable being culled out of the gene pool. Again, this is not a moral argument, this is a logistical one. On starship Earth, the mothership needs crew, not passengers.

Instead our tax dollars go to some 16 year old and her future spawn who couldn't keep her legs closed because she's a walking lawsuit to anyone who comes near her and because Oprah says she can have it all and do whatever she wants with no consequences.

If you want hardcore, here it is - If someone wanted real social change based on vigilante behavior and the use of violence to effect widespread adjustment of current mating behavior to fulfill an agenda, then they shot the wrong person.

Life is cheap. Society, history, war, biology, human nature, natural selection all tells us this. But we as humans don't like to listen.

My view on abortion is this, no offense, for those who are pro life at all costs, fine, you pay for it. Pay for everything out of your own pockets and you won't hear a peep from me. Until then, don't expect the rest of society to change when it comes to the idea that no fetus will beat us. Not when it comes to the logistics of natural selection.


Gekko

i probably should read this but it's too long and i can't be arsed

 

[Darth Madden]

Humans are much more emotional about offspring and life in general. We raise our young for so long. I know most will disagree with me but I don't think we are that special. Our minds have separated us from true nature.

So what would you consider disfigured and hadicapped? If my kid was born with brown eyes and I wanted blue eyes can I kill him because he is disfigured?

 

[jinxx]

i miss that planet... it was my favourite

me too!....................

 

[jinxx]

So what would you consider disfigured and hadicapped? If my kid was born with brown eyes and I wanted blue eyes can I kill him because he is disfigured?

just give him blue contact lenses!..sheeesh!!...

 

[Darth Madden]

just give him blue contact lenses!..sheeesh!!...

Dang, I didn't think of that. Thanks... situation solved.

 

[Spartan Rex]

Ive got ADD so I didnt read.
I guess I shouldve been aborted

Well everyone has a different view on the abortion topic. Given many people have differing views on religion as well, it tends to get to be pretty messy.

Given that we live in an age of lawsuits, sexual liberation and entitlement, it's an issue that will tend to be problematic.

From a historical standpoint, the fall of Rome, arguably civilizations archetype of some form of stable society surrounded by pure chaos in the world around it, was often cited as happening for many reasons, but one of them I found extremely interesting. The wealthy and educated were having fewer and fewer children and the poor and uneducated were having more and more children.

The disparity between the two groups, and in modern times, creates a triple burden on the state. First, many children today are being born into single parent or soon to be single parent homes. There is much less social stigma than from earlier times. Statistically speaking, children from single parent homes are less likely to be successful ( defined by seeking and attaining higher education, tending to have lower general socioeconomic status, and worst of all, likely to become single parents themselves, perpetuating the cycle) The single parent stands, on the average, to be a greater drain on the state and require some form of social services help ( i.e. the welfare state concept) to get by. Instead of contributing to the economy as a productive tax payer, the single parent becomes a financial liability.

Many children from single parents homes end up being incarcerated. Not all obviously, but studies done in prison populations show many, an extreme amount, come from single parent homes. This is a second hit on the state. Again, that incarcerated person is not adding to the government coffers as a productive taxpayer, but is yet another drain on existing social services, the penal system and puts stress and harm on society from the commission of crimes and creating a heavier workload for existing law enforcement.

The third hit comes when the child from the single parent home, becomes a single parent themselves on day. People emulate what they see everyday. Children of smokers tend to have a higher risk of becoming a smoker. Drinkers catalyze future drinkers. Child beaters spur new child beaters. College educated tend to have their kids go to college. And on and on and on. Now you have potentially successive generations that are a drain on state and government resources with very little input. Is this all single parents and single parent homes? No, it's not. Are the risks higher in these cases? Yes.

The above is why the poor and educated breeding without checks and balances can be bad for the long term health of any modern society. People often discuss the birthrates in general that are either rising or declining, but they often don't draw socioeconomic distinction for those birth rates. A child born in a home where the parents are college educated and have good jobs and both parents stay married does not mean success. Nothing is guaranteed. But the odds are stronger than if those elements were not present. The reality is educated couples with strong earning power tend to not have 7-8 kids popping out. It's not so often that you will see many these days with even three kids.

Removing the moral implications of abortion,

Children from parents who stay married, are college educated and have strong to stable earning power = Good for society in general = Future consistent taxpayers and consumers being born who stand a less chance of being a drain on existing social services/government resources.

Children from single parent or broken homes, the parents are not college educated and have poor to unstable earning power = Bad for society in general = Future inconsistent or unproductive taxpayers and mixed benefit as consumers ( Spending stupid is great short term for the economy, but on the back end when they can't afford medical care, who pays for that?) being born who stand a greater chance of being a drain on existing social services/government resources.

From a moral standpoint, I can't tell anyone how to feel about abortion.

From a logistical and financial standpoint, I can say a total lack of abortion would cause a social and financial nightmare of unimagined proportions. If every woman who got pregnant had a baby absolutely, who is going to pay for all those kids? Where are they all going to go? It's not like all single parents out there are budding millionaires or rocket scientists. Many are living close to the poverty line and living check to check. Taxpayers would have to pay, that's who would pay.

I'm not pissing on people here who are single parents or came from single parent homes, I'm saying fundamentally speaking, our society has seemed to forget that little nuance of life called NATURAL SELECTION. The survival of our species and the sustained viability of our society depends on the weak and stupid and incapable being culled out of the gene pool. Again, this is not a moral argument, this is a logistical one. On starship Earth, the mothership needs crew, not passengers.

Instead our tax dollars go to some 16 year old and her future spawn who couldn't keep her legs closed because she's a walking lawsuit to anyone who comes near her and because Oprah says she can have it all and do whatever she wants with no consequences.

If you want hardcore, here it is - If someone wanted real social change based on vigilante behavior and the use of violence to effect widespread adjustment of current mating behavior to fulfill an agenda, then they shot the wrong person.

Life is cheap. Society, history, war, biology, human nature, natural selection all tells us this. But we as humans don't like to listen.

My view on abortion is this, no offense, for those who are pro life at all costs, fine, you pay for it. Pay for everything out of your own pockets and you won't hear a peep from me. Until then, don't expect the rest of society to change when it comes to the idea that no fetus will beat us. Not when it comes to the logistics of natural selection.


Gekko

 

[The Josh]

zero remorse here.

So you don't care a man was shot down in cold blood? Was his chosen profession so horrible he deserved to be shot down before he died and had to deal with God himself (assuming he believed or others believe)?

If the guy was some mass serial killer hell bent just killing to kill, Adolf Hitler, Joesph Stalin, etc. I could agree.

If you really feel the man being shot infront of his family coming out of church was no big deal. Then I'm sorry but that states something profound about you as a person.

 

[jinxx]

Ive got ADD so I didnt read.
I guess I shouldve been aborted

I got thin wrists and unhealthy obsession for all things evil....
I guess I should've been aborted!

 

[BadMoon]

zero remorse here.

 

[Karma]

 

[Spartan Rex]

So you don't care a man was shot down in cold blood? Was his chosen profession so horrible he deserved to be shot down before he died and had to deal with God himself (assuming he believed or others believe)?

If the guy was some mass serial killer hell bent just killing to kill, Adolf Hitler, Joesph Stalin, etc. I could agree.

If you really feel the man being shot infront of his family coming out of church was no big deal. Then I'm sorry but that states something profound about you as a person.

I dont condone the death of George Tiller.
That said, I reserve my sympathy and tears for the innocent aborted children who were unceremoniously put in garbage bags and labeled
"medical refuse".
Tiller on the other hand will have a proper burial with many mourners decrying the great loss to womens "reproductive rights".

 

[man_vs_machine]

If you all are so big on abortion, too bad your moms didn't make the same choice. But I"m sure saying that will offend you. I know this I am a hell of a lot more then just some "choice" my mother made back when she was pregnant. THAT thought is offensive to me. Lucky for every one having this discussion that their mother decided not to kill us off as well. Way i see it, this guy just got aborted really really late term. He killed 60,000 + people, and people out there fell bad for him and HIS family, talk about hypocritical. This is a guy to killed the defenseless for about 20 years. haha get real

 

[jinxx]

zero remorse here.

zero remorse for getting an abortion or zero remorse for the murdered doctor!?....kthnxbye!

 

[Spartan Rex]

I got thin wrists and unhealthy obsession for all things evil....
I guess I should've been aborted!

Maybe we can get a group rate.
The burden on society is reaching critical mass.

 

[jinxx]

Maybe we can get a group rate.
The burden on society is reaching critical mass.

cyanide kool-aid anyone!?.......

 

[man_vs_machine]

So you don't care a man was shot down in cold blood? Was his chosen profession so horrible he deserved to be shot down before he died and had to deal with God himself (assuming he believed or others believe)?

If the guy was some mass serial killer hell bent just killing to kill, Adolf Hitler, Joesph Stalin, etc. I could agree.

If you really feel the man being shot infront of his family coming out of church was no big deal. Then I'm sorry but that states something profound about you as a person.

Haha, uhh..... yeah his chosen profession was to kill children in the womb and i'd say that is horrible , and yeah he was a mass killer. Don't know about you, but i was at that stage of my life too. Lots of great people come from broken, poor homes with parents who can't care for them all that well and wind up doing great things for the world.