Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[Blackhole]

Here's a thought, maybe the Terminator that is seen at CRS is merely the humans trying to fit all the bits back together...it doesn't work, can't be programmed or anything like that, and maybe they've had to guess a few pieces, kind of like the dinosaurs...they know what goes where and they fill in the blanks...

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

Just to take a side step from timeline theories, has anyone made a custom line up picture of all Terminator models? Like from T-1 to T-X?

Can someone answer this handsome chaps question?

 

[Superman]

I get your point, Surfer, but how should this all start?
It just CAN´T be the same over and over again.
It has to start somewhere how is it supossed to do?
What do you think, serious and interested question...

In the Cameron universe it is the same over and over, that is why surfer disregards the last two movies. My timeline answers your question as to where it starts even better than wikipedia's limited explanation. Perhaps I have to go into more detail in my timeline for you to understand, however that would take some time. I take all four films as cannon as all four did happen. So you have to throw out Cameron's limited time loop vision and account for many timelines.

Can someone answer this handsome chaps question?

Skynet, you should know the answer to this. You've sent back enough Terminator time travelers to figure this out already I on the other hand have only been able to turn back time by spinning the world around in reverse, so I cannot help.

 

[EndoSickness]

In the Cameron universe it is the same over and over, that is why surfer disregards the last two movies. My timeline answers your question as to where it starts even better than wikipedia's limited explanation. Perhaps I have to go into more detail in my timeline for you to understand, however that would take some time. I take all four films as cannon as all four did happen. So you have to throw out Cameron's limited time loop vision and account for many timelines.

Not your fault, mate.
I just didn´t read your timeline description ´til now, but that´s about to change. Guess we´re on the same side of the theory than, but the first 2 are, of course, better. But for the hole to happen and fit all 4 must happen and the fanbase makes this fit for themselves...

 

[Jokes & Bats]

sorry if this is a daft question or has already been asked but in the next two bale terminator films are we going to see how they send kyle and the terminator back thru time to protect sarah and john? and how they capture a t800 or program it to be a protector not a killer?

 

[EndoSickness]

English is my second language, I am hispanic, so excuse my typo's. As for me naming Hicks instead of Kyle Reese, a simple mistake since they are the same actor and I had watched Aliens the same day. I'll read all of this thread, but it will take time. There has to be more than two timelines since you have the chicken and egg argument. Reese (Hicks as I called him above) had to have been born before John Connor. That is why I mention that we do not see the first timeline where Kyle Reese is sent back by someone else (since his son doesn't exist yet) and he has to meet Sarah Connor in the past and impregnates her. His mission then was to destroy skynet and not to save Sarah. THe timeline we see in Terminator 1 has to do with John Connor discovering that the Terminators have sent back in time a T800 to kill his mother.He in the future in that timeline does not know for sure Kyle Reese is his father (or he assumes it because he has the same name as his father learnt thru his mother) but sends him back anyways to protect his mother. John gives a picture of his mother to Kyle for reference. In T2, the moment the T1000 gets sent back changes the timeline once more. Once that failed, the TX was sent back changing the timeline a fourth time. And in Salvation they revive Marcus Wright in order to infiltrate and trick John into rescuing Kyle Reese. Ultimately this explanation is the best I can come up with after watching all the movies many times. SilentSurfer, there has to be a timeline at some point where John Connor did not exist yet until Kyle Reese went back in time and impregnated Sarah Connor. Now that even did not have to happen at the exact moment in time it did in T1, however it had to have happened in that order.

1. First unaltered timeline before the time machine was built : Skynet takes over and becomes self aware at a later point in time than we know of in the movies. Kyle Reese (at an unknown age) gets sent back or sends himself back in order to stop Skynet creating a whole new timeline where John Connor exists.

Timeline 2: Kyle meets Sarah Connor and impregnates her while attempting to destroy Skynet. Obviously his son John is more successful in this timeline gathering a resistance prompting skynet to send back a Terminator to kill Sarah so he wouldn't be born starting a new timeline (3) however John learns of this and sends back Kyle with a picture of his mother to save her. At that point he does not know Kyle is his father. We can only guess at the ages of John and Kyle at this point, however Kyle is probably 25-30 and John would be 10 years or so older.

Timeline 3: This is what we see in Terminator 1 which leads to John surviving and speeding up the process cyberdyne creates the T800 because of the parts found in the factory. So Skynet, losing the war once again thanks to John Connor sends back the T-1000. This creates timeline 4.

Timeline 4: THe T-1000 is unsuccessful and Cyberdyne and their lead scientist are gone. However Arnold leaves behind his arm again which is found and Cyberdyne continues with the research along with the Government and skynet and judgment day occurs again. However John is successful at almost defeating the machines once more in the future. Which prompts Skynet to send back the TX in order to speed up the formation of skynet (Timeline 5) now that the internet is all around the world as opposed to the 80's and kill all of the resistance members (Colonels) they know about including John and his wife. They actually succeed in speeding things up and kill key colonels however they fail to kill John and his wife. Terminator Salvation is the continuance of this timeline...

We can assume the TX is sent back to speed things up by implanting the virus and that she also uploads all of her knowledge of the future as well in order to speed up skynets ability to make the perfect infiltrator. The TX uploaded this info either embedded into the Virus, or into the T1-2 unit she switched on. Which is why Marcus Wright was able to be revived and used in Salvation as the ultimate infiltration unit and using a more advanced endoskeleton structure. Humans are needed to perform the intricate heart and body surgery, no machine could have done that operation. In this timeline, skynet knows the other previous models T800 and T1000 as well as the TX failed in their missions. However they have to keep sending them all back to the same time in order for events to keep on occurring as they do. WHich makes me believe Skynet does not know Kyle Reese is John's father, because if they did they simply don't send the T800 back which prompts Kyle to go back allowing John to be born but the events in the first unaltered timeline get repeated since no T800 arm gets left behind. So if Skynet does know Kyle is John's father, not messing up the future may be the reason they have to keep sending back the failed Terminators to the exact moments in time knowing they will fail...So surfer, do you agree with any of my theories about the timelines? I count 5 of them and no less.

After reading your description and getting that knot of synapse chaos twirled outta itself I have to agree with your theory, Supes.
There´s nothing wrong with that, it´s totally logic (as to put it in a conformity with that word^^) and is on par with mine cause there´s to be a start it just can never be a perfect loop with the same stuff and that´s what I meant when I said that little stuff does little changes but in the end overall things WILL and MUST happen.

Your description is very delicate and well thought through.
Respect.

 

[Superman]

sorry if this is a daft question or has already been asked but in the next two bale terminator films are we going to see how they send kyle and the terminator back thru time to protect sarah and john? and how they capture a t800 or program it to be a protector not a killer?

I'm quite sure that has to happen in the next movie or couple of movies if all the original characters return. However they would have to bring in another actor for Kyle Reese as he is too young at the moment to be sent back, unless they send him back ten years earlier into the past where he meets a younger Sarah. Overall I think the route the movie will take is not going to make Cameron purists happy but be a fun and interesting take nonetheless. My guess is though they will have the T-850 model kill Connor and have his wife send back the T-850 in order to make the cycle appear more real. However in reality since many Colonel's had died, it would be a different past and a different current team of Colonel's.

 

[Shanester]

So, do the Alien(s) have eyes? I always assumed they didn't have eyes as we (humans) do. However, the drone in Alien had a human-ish frontal skull. Anyone care to comment?

 

[Sabres21768]

So, do the Alien(s) have eyes? I always assumed they didn't have eyes as we (humans) do. However, the drone in Alien had a human-ish frontal skull. Anyone care to comment?

No, they do not have "eyes".

The Alien (and I really hate to hear it called a "drone" ) from the first movie only had a vestigiel skull left over from the genetic material of Kane.
Yes, there were eye sockets, but no eyes.

 

[Superman]

No, they do not have "eyes".

The Alien (and I really hate to hear it called a "drone" ) from the first movie only had a vestigiel skull left over from the genetic material of Kane.
Yes, there were eye sockets, but no eyes.

That skull in the alien had to have been grown genetically while the alien grew (which is a Vestigial structure) since Kane's original skull was left on his dead body. That is the part that confuses some into thinking it is the aliens skull and not Kane's. It is the same as all humans having some organs in our bodies that don't have a purpose anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigiality

This article explains it very well.

 

[Sabres21768]

That skull in the alien had to have been grown genetically while the alien grew (which is a Vestigial structure) since Kane's original skull was left on his dead body. That is the part that confuses some into thinking it is the aliens skull and not Kane's. It is the same as all humans having some organs in our bodies that don't have a purpose anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigiality

This article explains it very well.

Why would the Alien have a human like skull?

You're saying that the human like skull is actually it's own and not due to being gestated inside a human host?

 

[EndoSickness]

It´s because Aliens just "take" kind of 70-80% of the hosts DNA and make this their own.
That´s how the predalien has so many alien traits and so little predator and how the dog/cow/runner vom 3 has so little of the formentioned and so many alien.
It, in my opinion, just takes genetically what it sees fit and gives itself posibilities and abilites that makes it better, or when we see it as a bred weapon, going confirm with a long spoken rumor, it´s genetically inserted in it´s "code" , I would say like 60-65% and the rest are just traits that "form" the alien.

 

[Sabres21768]

It´s because Aliens just "take" kind of 70-80% of the hosts DNA and make this their own.
That´s how the predalien has so many alien traits and so little predator and how the dog/cow/runner vom 3 has so little of the formentioned and so many alien.
It, in my opinion, just takes genetically what it sees fit and gives itself posibilities and abilites that makes it better, or when we see it as a bred weapon, going confirm with a long spoken rumor, it´s genetically inserted in it´s "code" , I would say like 60-65% and the rest are just traits that "form" the alien.

Right, I understand that.

But Superman is saying that the human-like skull in the original Alien is actually it's own skull. Having nothing to due with genetic material from the host.

 

[EndoSickness]

Yeah, I got that.
Maybe that´s partially right, cause when the aliens developed themselves further, after being bred it would be "their" skulls.
But we don´t know for sure how they looked like when they were first spawned as part of this experiment, considering it really happened and what "their" bodyparts and DNA really were.

I think it´s just the way they look like now in their kind of evolution.
Like how the predalien looks 20% like a predator and it got this early reproduction cycle with 5, or 6 chestbursters (considering it canon) at once, but those already looked like normal warrior aliens again.
They kind of seem to go back to this look over and over again, until a few years passed and new traits will become common to their DNA, that´s when maybe a...dunno...horsehead will become a trait and a look and elephant feet will switch their stance and make them like tanks, to look over, as we say in german, the dishes border.
Getting my point?

 

[Superman]

Right, I understand that.

But Superman is saying that the human-like skull in the original Alien is actually it's own skull. Having nothing to due with genetic material from the host.

Well, technically its Kane's skull, but just a vestigial appendage based on his skull since the Alien uses the DNA of the human host mixed with its own. I don't believe I ever said it was nothing to do with the genetic material of the host? And remember its an elongated skull mix kinda like the one we see in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal skull so it is a mix of alien and Kane skull, some material that can withstand acid. Perhaps there are some differences between humans that give each Alien in the series its own unique look when using a human as a host. (I know why Cameron changed the alien look, to make them more nimble in the costume, however I am trying to make sense of the logic behind the science here ) So the skull is there but not important or useful other than perhaps helping to support the head. The Pred-alien also had a see-thru skull as well of Scar, but it was grown and not the original Scar skull. .

 

[Sabres21768]

Well, technically its Kane's skull, but just a vestigial appendage based on his skull since the Alien uses the DNA of the human host mixed with its own. I don't believe I ever said it was nothing to do with the genetic material of the host? And remember its an elongated skull mix kinda like the one we see in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal skull so it is a mix of alien and Kane skull, some material that can withstand acid. Perhaps there are some differences between humans that give each Alien in the series its own unique look when using a human as a host. (I know why Cameron changed the alien look, to make them more nimble in the costume, however I am trying to make sense of the logic behind the science here ) So the skull is there but not important or useful other than perhaps helping to support the head. The Pred-alien also had a see-thru skull as well of Scar, but it was grown and not the original Scar skull. .

I don't think it's unimportant.

If we look at it from a reality based perspective, and use the concept of the Alien being a genetically engineered weapon, then it makes sense.

Of course, you want the weapon to take on characteristics of the enemy species to better suit that weapon for war.

But also, if an alien race were to engineer a weapon that uses the genetic blueprint of the species they're using the weapon against then being a member of that race and seeing bits and pieces of my race in the creature would be horrifying.

Part of war is always psychological. Nothing more psychologically damaging than seeing a creature that's part alien/part my species.

Again, this is all just conjecture as Giger designed it with the skull just to be more disturbing on screen.

 

[Superman]

I don't think it's unimportant.

If we look at it from a reality based perspective, and use the concept of the Alien being a genetically engineered weapon, then it makes sense.

Of course, you want the weapon to take on characteristics of the enemy species to better suit that weapon for war.

But also, if an alien race were to engineer a weapon that uses the genetic blueprint of the species they're using the weapon against then being a member of that race and seeing bits and pieces of my race in the creature would be horrifying.

Part of war is always psychological. Nothing more psychologically damaging than seeing a creature that's part alien/part my species.

Again, this is all just conjecture as Giger designed it with the skull just to be more disturbing on screen.

If we believe the aliens (xenomorphs) were created by the derelict space craft aliens. Then the skull just being there to psychologically scare its prey makes sense that it would be programmed into the matrix.

 

[Shanester]

Sabres, "drone" is incorrect? Please, educate me. I thought the explanation for the differences in the Alien "being" and the Aliens "beings" was that one was a drone and one was a warrior. Seriously, this is not so? If you don't mind explaining, I'd appreciate it. I always wondered why the differences existed. I thought I knew superficially.

Also, no eyes, so they don't use optical sight. What do they use? Anything?

Thanks!

 

[Matt13]

I think what Sabres meant about the drone thing was that in the first alien it was a creature of its own and in the sequel they were given a bug like existence and hive mentallity.

 

[Sabres21768]

I think what Sabres meant about the drone thing was that in the first alien it was a creature of its own and in the sequel they were given a bug like existence and hive mentallity.

Exactly.

The term "drone" was given to Giger's Alien to try and explain it's existence in Cameron's universe.

Since Cameron had essentially turned the creature into a bug...the slower, more methodical creature from the first movie was deemed a "drone".

Much to most die hard ALIEN fan's dismay.