Aliens,Predator and Terminator Q&A (Anything!)

[tylerdurden]

The Humans NEVER made ONE SINGLE TERMINATOR, even when T3 showed something like that, with the T-900, it´s clear nonsense and one of the reasons why almost nothing of which occured in the T3 timeline was mentioned in T4.

i'm on the same page about this. humans didn't make terminators, the machines did. the deleted scene in that non-existent film is utter rubbish.

as for causality loops vs alternate timelines, my take is that u need a point of origin even for a causality loop. after all, every effect starts with a cause. and to me, the starting point was the one originally outlined by cameron, in that the machines themselves created the terminators. when the machines sent them back in time, that's when the whole self-fulfilling merry-go-round began.

i'd like to take it one step further by positing that there could in fact be alternate timelines that ALL loop back to the one true point of origin, thus each one of them flows into the causality loop. in short, ultimately everything is connected in an endless cycle. nonsensical? why? time isn't linear anyway. now does that f#@$%*k with your head? goooood.

 

[SilentSurfer]

No causality time loop... Then somebody needs to answer the question of where the hell John Connor came from in the non-time loop timeline. If not for Kyle going back, John would not exist. If John doesn't exist, the Resistance, if it even exists, doesn't win. If John doesn't exist, Skynet doesn't lose and send back a Terminator to kill Sarah. If no Terminator gets sent back, no Kyle gets sent back, and we have nothing.

Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

Let's play your game then. No Terminator and no Kyle go back to 1984. Sarah continues being a waitress, finishes school, starts a career, finds a man, marries, has a kid who just so happens to be named John.

John's age will now be different. He might be living in L.A. when the bombs fall. If by some chance he survives the war, he won't be trained by his mother like Kyle said, and therefor won't become the leader of the Resistance to lead mankind to victory against Skynet. No John, the Resistance leader = no Kyle, the sacrifice to save Sarah = no John the hero = mankind goes out forever. Kyle made it very clear in T1 that it was ALL, I repeat ALL becuase of John that the war turned around.

"We were this close to going out forever, but there was one man who taught us to fight, to organize, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal mother____ers into junk. He turned it around."

If Sarah had not known what was coming and what her son would become, the John born by unspectacular occurances could not have become this 'great military leader'.

John exists because Skynet tried to kill his mother. Fact. Watch the goddamn movie. And then watch T2 where Cameron makes it clear through Dyson that Skynet would never have come to pass without that damn chip.

"...things we NEVER would have thought of." That is straight from Cameron's own pen.

 

[Sabres21768]

Go easy on me as I'm not as big of a Terminator fan as most of you guys in this discussion.

But, here's my question/point...

If no Terminator and no Kyle go back to '84, then we wouldn't have Skynet at all, right?
Dyson uses the what's left of the destroyed Terminator's CPU to design his computer model of a nueral net processor.

So, no Terminator sent back, no Terminator destroyed = no nueral net processor = no Skynet = no future war with the machines. Right?

Again, go easy on me.

 

[SilentSurfer]

If Skynet, the machines, alone made Terminators, then why the hell is the T-800 in T1 called Cyberdyne Systems Model 101? What the ____ is it a model for if not a Terminator, you jackoffs? Somebody said it may have been based on the human likeness of blah blah blah... What was the model of a human likeness for then, if not to disguise a Terminator Endoskeleton that you guys say won't exist until Skynet makes it.

If it's Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 of a disguise for a Terminator, then ____ing Cyberdyne designed them. Why does 2+2=5 for you all?

What more evidence do you need. It's got Cyberdyne's goddamn name on it.

 

[Sabres21768]

If Skynet, the machines, alone made Terminators, then why the hell is the T-800 in T1 called Cyberdyne Systems Model 101? What the ____ is it a model for if not a Terminator, you jackoffs? Somebody said it may have been based on the human likeness of blah blah blah... What was the model of a human likeness for then, if not to disguise a Terminator Endoskeleton that you guys say won't exist until Skynet makes it.

If it's Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 of a disguise for a Terminator, then ____ing Cyberdyne designed them. Why does 2+2=5 for you all?

What more evidence do you need. It's got Cyberdyne's goddamn name on it.

I have to agree. Cyberdyne had the destroyed Terminator's forearm and hand.

If you guys think that they weren't reverse engineering that, then some of you are being very stupid.

That info would definately had been stored on numerous redundant systems for the military. Even with the destruction of Cyberdyne, to think that there wouldn't be stored info of everything Cyberdyne was doing is being stupid as well.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Go easy on me as I'm not as big of a Terminator fan as most of you guys in this discussion.

But, here's my question/point...

If no Terminator and no Kyle go back to '84, then we wouldn't have Skynet at all, right?
Dyson uses the what's left of the destroyed Terminator's CPU to design his computer model of a nueral net processor.

So, no Terminator sent back, no Terminator destroyed = no nueral net processor = no Skynet = no future war with the machines. Right?

Again, go easy on me.

2+2=4 to Sabres. At least somebody else can interpret logic. Very nice.

 

[Sabres21768]

2+2=4 to Sabres. At least somebody else can interpret logic. Very nice.

And I'm not even that big of a fan.

 

[SilentSurfer]

I have to agree. Cyberdyne had the destroyed Terminator's forearm and hand.

If you guys think that they weren't reverse engineering that, then some of you are being very stupid.

I was truly starting to think people were arguing with me just to piss me off. You got it though. Furthermore, we only saw the infamous arm in T2, but the full legs and other blown off parts were all scattered about the place. More than enough stuff to figure out what the hell it looked like. It's a automated factory for petesake. The factory was built by engineers. Who the hell thinks a bunch of engineers aren't going to try to rebuild it? There is no way that doesn't make sense to the you guys arguing for Skynet built Terminators. The only thing Skynet can truly take credit for is the cyborg aspect and giving them the self awareness to be functional.

 

[Sabres21768]

I was truly starting to think people were arguing with me just to piss me off. You got it though. Furthermore, we only saw the infamous arm in T2, but the full legs and other blown off parts were all scattered about the place. More than enough stuff to figure out what the hell it looked like. It's a automated factory for petesake. The factory was built by engineers. Who the hell thinks a bunch of engineers aren't going to try to rebuild it? There is no way that doesn't make sense to the you guys arguing for Skynet built Terminators. The only thing Skynet can truly take credit for is the cyborg aspect and giving them the self awareness to be functional.

True, I didn't even think about the whole lower half of the original Terminator.

Believe me, if we can piece together dinosaur bones and human remains and whatever, SOMEONE can sure put what's left of the Terminator back together.

And, I spent 8 years in the military dealing with intel and personnel info.
All of that info is NEVER kept in one system in one location...EVER!

Like I said before, the destruction of Cyberdyne's system really accomplished nothing.
The military would definately have kept records of every bit of progress Cyberdyne made on a daily basis.

 

[SilentSurfer]

SilentSurfer,

I still cannot see how you believe only two timelines are represented in the movie's when we have 3 different Terminators traveling back in time along with one human.

There may be more than two timelines because of time incursions made in three different movies, yes, but we have only seen two of them represented. T1 is a loop. T2 threw off the loop, and all events and sequels have taken place in that timeline. The TX certainly changed something by killing off John's Lieutenants, but we have never seen that future or heard about it, except that the T-850 had killed John and Kate was his wife, and their children will become important. Now that I've said that, you are right. There were three timeline represented, the missing one involving members of the Resistance who since T3 did not live to see the war begin.

As for there being no Skynet at all if the original Terminator hadn't come back in time and left his chip and arm behind?

My observations lead me to believe Cyberdyne and Skynet the first timeline around did occur without the aid of the Terminator chip left behind. However it took at least 10-15 years longer for the T-800 design to be created without having the chip being left behind and studied by Dyson. Now go 40 years into the future and Kyle Reese is a part of the resistance, older than we know him, and learns about the T-800 being sent back in time (for a different purpose than T1, (probably to make sure skynet occurs more quickly) so he must go back after it. (This Timeline happens before T1 since Kyle does not know Sarah yet) So Kyle goes to the past to stop Skynet so Judgement Day doesn't occur. At that point John Connor shows up in the womb of Sarah Connor thanks to Kyle and the rest is history.

Here is another version of how the older Kyle goes back the first time. Same as above however Kyle goes back to the past alone in order to try and stop Judgement Day altogether by destroying cyberdyne and skynet. No Terminator infiltrator is sent back in time yet because they (skynet) were winning the war the first timeline around. This is where Kyle Reese meets Sarah, tells her about Judgmemnt Day and she gets pregnant. John Connor is born and already knows about Skynet through Kyle and his mother so they have an advantage now to stop them. This then leads skynet to send a T-800 back to kill Sarah for the first time. John in the future knows the timeline has changed so he has to send his father (a younger version of him which he gives his mom's picture to so he subconsciously falls in love with her as they were destined to be in whatever timeline) This causes the film Terminator 1 to occur. The fallout of Terminator 1 is that John survives, but Dyson and his team get a hold of the T-800 chip and arm so they cut back how quickly it takes to create the T-800 by about 10 years.

Now either pre-Terminator 1 story fits. It doesn't matter which one you choose, or you can invent what you like. However something must have happened before Terminator 1 was sent back and it is not irrelevant and should not be overlooked when trying to explain things. The chip from the T-800 in Terminator 1 left behind and the arm only are there to speed things up. The machines were going to be built by the same companies one way or another thanks to Government funding and research.

The key point you are missing is that the only known use for the Time Displacement Equipment was for Skynet to use it to ensure that Sarah never gave birth to Skynet's downfall, John Connor. If not for Skynet's plan to stop John from being born, the TDE would not have been made, and your whole thing about Kyle going back to prevent Skynet, or to do anything else, couldn't even be a consideration. If not to stop John in the past, for what purpose was the TDE? My position is based on what we KNOW from what we've all SEEN. Anything else is just making ____ up.

Besides, if Kyle's 'original mission' was to just stop Skynet from happening, and there is no Terminator, what's the catalyst that convinces Sarah to hook up with this freak from the future? "Hey, good lookin', I'm from the future. Do me." Sarah was scared of Kyle. If not for him saving her life TWICE, she would never have trusted him. She sure as hell didn't believe his story about the future, even after seeing the 'other' guy get up after being shot and set on fire. Why would she believe him now.

There's a whole subcontext to T1 that you aren't seeing. Cameron wrote a love story. Kyle loved John enough to die for him. Kyle also loved Sarah, 'the Legend', enough to travel through time to face off against a Terminator with only primitive weapons. "I came through time for you, Sarah. I love you. I always have."

Kyle valued women by their ability to fight.
"What are the women in your time like?" -Sarah
"Good fighters."
He would have greatly admired Sarah because of the stories John had told him about her, how "she taught her son to fight, to organize..." She was the woman who made the man he most admired. Kyle admitted to knowing no women romanticly, and there would have been no woman he idolized more.
"John gave me a picture of you once. I didn't know why at the time."
But John did. It wasn't just so he'd by chance run into Sarah, and maybe they might have sex after Kyle stopped Skynet's creation. Kyle told Sarah that he looked at it all the time, studied every curve and every line. Kyle fell in love with Sarah through John's stories and that picture. Sarah would have told John that, and that's why he gave it to Kyle.

Ensuring that Kyle saved Sarah was only part of Kyle's mission, the only part he was aware of, the mission Kyle VOLUNTEERED for.
"I volunteered. It was a chance to meet the legend."
But the other part, the part John would have had to be 'grooming' Kyle for discretely is, was to ensure that Kyle fell in love with his mother, so that Sarah would fall for him, and John would be born. It was Kyle's love for her and her son, and his sacrifice for both of them that moved Sarah to give herself to him. If not for that, some soldier from the future who had no experience with women, would never have managed to get into her pants.

To understand what Cameron was really doing in T1, you have to understand the characters he created. The movie wasn't just about a robot and soldier and a waitress. It was a love story set in a sci-fi genre. That is why it was brilliant, and that is why your theory, Superman, has no merit. I'm sorry.

 

[Superman]

No causality time loop... Then somebody needs to answer the question of where the hell John Connor came from in the non-time loop timeline. If not for Kyle going back, John would not exist. If John doesn't exist, the Resistance, if it even exists, doesn't win. If John doesn't exist, Skynet doesn't lose and send back a Terminator to kill Sarah. If no Terminator gets sent back, no Kyle gets sent back, and we have nothing.

Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

Let's play your game then. No Terminator and no Kyle go back to 1984. Sarah continues being a waitress, finishes school, starts a career, finds a man, marries, has a kid who just so happens to be named John.

John's age will now be different. He might be living in L.A. when the bombs fall. If by some chance he survives the war, he won't be trained by his mother like Kyle said, and therefor won't become the leader of the Resistance to lead mankind to victory against Skynet. No John, the Resistance leader = no Kyle, the sacrifice to save Sarah = no John the hero = mankind goes out forever. Kyle made it very clear in T1 that it was ALL, I repeat ALL becuase of John that the war turned around.

"We were this close to going out forever, but there was one man who taught us to fight, to organize, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal mother____ers into junk. He turned it around."

If Sarah had not known what was coming and what her son would become, the John born by unspectacular occurances could not have become this 'great military leader'.

John exists because Skynet tried to kill his mother. Fact. Watch the goddamn movie. And then watch T2 where Cameron makes it clear through Dyson that Skynet would never have come to pass without that damn chip.

"...things we NEVER would have thought of." That is straight from Cameron's own pen.

I can easily answer you question above as to where John came from in the non time loop timeline. THe very first time the time machine was created and Kyle Reese went back in time and made love to Sarah Connor is when the first alternate timeline ever occurred. Now at this point in the timeline where John exists is occurring before Terminator 1 still. In that future where Skynet becomes self aware, the first ever John makes a name for himself and becomes enemy number 1 to skynet prompting them to send back the first T-800 infiltrator. John would know his father was from the future and sent back for the purpose of stopping skynet so he would have an advantage against them once judgement day occurred. This timeline is still happening before the events that occur in the first T1 movie. How they happened is unknown, however they did happen if you believe the multiple timeline theory. So John learns in this future that skynet sent a Terminator to kill his mother so he knows he has to send his father back in time so he may be born and to protect his mother. Now the Kyle that this first ever John sends back is younger than he is obviously by about ten years making that future John 40ish and Kyle Reese 30ish. Now T1 starts the moment Kyle gets sent back... I hope you understand my explanation this time.

i'm on the same page about this. humans didn't make terminators, the machines did. the deleted scene in that non-existent film is utter rubbish.

as for causality loops vs alternate timelines, my take is that u need a point of origin even for a causality loop. after all, every effect starts with a cause. and to me, the starting point was the one originally outlined by cameron, in that the machines themselves created the terminators. when the machines sent them back in time, that's when the whole self-fulfilling merry-go-round began.

i'd like to take it one step further by positing that there could in fact be alternate timelines that ALL loop back to the one true point of origin, thus each one of them flows into the causality loop. in short, ultimately everything is connected in an endless cycle. nonsensical? why? time isn't linear anyway. now does that f#@$%*k with your head? goooood.

All of you are ignoring my timeline since you believe in Cameron's vision alone. However T3 and T4S don't mix with Cameron's time loop theory sorry to say.

 

[SilentSurfer]

That's the problem. Cameron was a genius. The other writers suck. They never tried to stick to the bible of what Cameron created. T3 and T4 were made by a bunch of hacks in Hollywood sitting around saying, 'Hey, you know what would be cool...' They didn't get the heart and the core of what made Terminator a masterpiece either. Now please read the post I posted while you were working on your last one above as I've greatly addressed your original Kyle time travel theory.

 

[SilentSurfer]

Ok here's question sorry if it's been asked.
Why if Marcus was executed back in 2003, why his he still the same appearance in 2018?, why was Marcus selected (why pick some criminal from the past when they have a wide selection of prisoners in the future? & also Marcus appears to be far more sophisticated technology wise then the original Terminator (smaller frame more realistic size for an infiltrator, fully passes for a human) . Isn't he supposed to be an earlier model?? even pre dates the t600??

Where's SilentSurfer??

T4 is a masterpiece of cluelessness about the Terminator mythology. The design of the T-600s is testimony enough to that. T4 works under the assumption that Skynet is somehow able to know all of the events from every timeline, and how all of its attempts have failed to kill John. In T4, John is still a nobody, except that that info may have been uploaded by the TX in T3 so that Skynet would have an advanced awareness of an upcoming threat. Otherwise, why is Skynet even looking for him?

Regardless, Skynet does know all of this god-like omniscient facts, and needs to try something new, so it makes Marcus, a T-800 hybrid. Instead of a machine pretending to be a man, he's a man turned into a machine, but with a human heart and no memory of being made a cyborg. The perfect infiltrator. Why he still looks the same after being dead for 15 years; more McG stupidity. And what's even more stupid is that Skynet is still making outdated Terminators when it already has all the knowledge of them being useless to prevent Skynet's fall. According to Skynet chick, Marcus was a 'radical' leap forward in thinking, yet it's still got a factory of 800s. Why?

While we're on the subject of stupidity and Skynet's omniscients, there is no way Kyle is a VIP target. In T4, he is just some loner kid hanging out with a little girl. He has done nothing, has no record, has no ties to the Resistance, and nobody buy Sarah and John ever know he's John's father, and that is a fact no matter what timeline or movie you watch. So that whole storyline is total bull____. The clueless writer just needed a motivation for Marcus and John to end up at one of Skynet's facilities. Complete crap.

 

[tylerdurden]

I was truly starting to think people were arguing with me just to piss me off.

whoa, dude. relax, bro. it's just a theoretical discussion about a fictional topic. to be honest, i think all opinions and theories have merit. yours isn't the be-all and end-all of opinions/theories, especially when it comes to mind-boggling paradoxical stuff like time travel. this is in no way an attack on u, and i'm not taking any sides. but u do seem to be getting kinda aggressive over what is and should be a fun debate. u might end up scaring away all the new guys here!

All of you are ignoring my timeline since you believe in Cameron's vision alone. However T3 and T4S don't mix with Cameron's time loop theory sorry to say.

superman, we're not ignoring u. we're ignoring(or rather disregarding) the travesty that was t3. in my opinion, t3 is not canon, simply because it consciously chose not to take the series seriously. so i don't take it seriously.

 

[Superman]

T4 is a masterpiece of cluelessness about the Terminator mythology. The design of the T-600s is testimony enough to that. T4 works under the assumption that Skynet is somehow able to know all of the events from every timeline, and how all of its attempts have failed to kill John. In T4, John is still a nobody, except that that info may have been uploaded by the TX in T3 so that Skynet would have an advanced awareness of an upcoming threat. Otherwise, why is Skynet even looking for him?

Regardless, Skynet does know all of this god-like omniscient facts, and needs to try something new, so it makes Marcus, a T-800 hybrid. Instead of a machine pretending to be a man, he's a man turned into a machine, but with a human heart and no memory of being made a cyborg. The perfect infiltrator. Why he still looks the same after being dead for 15 years; more McG stupidity. And what's even more stupid is that Skynet is still making outdated Terminators when it already has all the knowledge of them being useless to prevent Skynet's fall. According to Skynet chick, Marcus was a 'radical' leap forward in thinking, yet it's still got a factory of 800s. Why?

While we're on the subject of stupidity and Skynet's omniscients, there is no way Kyle is a VIP target. In T4, he is just some loner kid hanging out with a little girl. He has done nothing, has no record, has no ties to the Resistance, and nobody buy Sarah and John ever know he's John's father, and that is a fact no matter what timeline or movie you watch. So that whole storyline is total bull____. The clueless writer just needed a motivation for Marcus and John to end up at one of Skynet's facilities. Complete crap.

Cameron's beautiful love story does fit in my timeline theory exactly how it is seen in the movie. As for why Skynet isbuilding T-800's still when they have Marcus, the T-1000 and TX abilities. For Marcus, it is easy to explain since they needed to send the information of how to do this back into the past so the Human Scientists at cyberdine even attempt this radical surgery in the first place. Skynet doesn't have robots capable of performing open heart surgery and so forth because if they did, the robotics have to be even more precise and small. Marcu's instructions where implanted by the humans in the past and the info was embedded into the programming skynet gave them for the chip. That is what happens when you cut and paste code during reverse engineering. They only awakened Marcus once the lab which gave John Connar the fake signal was infiltrated by the Resistance and Kyle Reese was identified and signal uploaded to skynet about what he looked like. At that point skynet pointed Marcus on the right track. What skynets biggest problem was at the very end when they explained everything to Marcus and his free-will took over..

Now going back to Kyle Reese and the love story in T1. in my first timeline that I explained above, he was destined to meet with Sarah and convince her of the terrible future. John did not exist in that future however the machines still took over and became self aware. I agree with you that TX did upload all the info and all the attempts made to kill John which is why the T4 version of skynet knows as much as they do. However in order to preserve the timeline, skynet still has to make T-800's and the T-1000 along with the TX and send them back to the exact same times as they did before even though they know they fail in order so that the Marcus infiltrator would still exist. Another theory would be that skynet no longer has to send back the TX, T1000 and original T-800 because it is a new timeline, so sending them back would just create another one but the current one would remain unchanged. Either way it is interesting to think about all of these possibilities. I wish we could keep it as simple as a time loop love story with no multiple timelines etc. as was in T1. but T2 and the rest ruin that by changing things..This is a good discussion. Hope you don't get a headache thinking about all this. In fact, I am re-watching all these movies this weekend just to freshen up since I am getting the 1:2 T800 bust with the dual plasma rifles from sideshowtoy I can't wait. This discussion just gets me more into the mood of the series.

 

[A.L.I.E.N]

Just to take a side step from timeline theories, has anyone made a custom line up picture of all Terminator models? Like from T-1 to T-X?

 

[Toni Plutonij]

SilentSurfer you were first to put me (and some others) down for being newbies here, and that "regulars" already covered our subject.

Just because I'm new member here doesn't mean ____ when it comes to talking about Terminator universe.

My theories are also based ONLY from what we see, and when I go inot part that I'm guessing, I note it! And my theories are also ONLY based on first two movies, even tho I enjoyed Salvation, I don't see it as a part of Camerons vision, as it isn't

Now, don't call me clueless, blind or stupid for not seeing things your way, as you clearly didn't cover my points in my last post!
Most pointless of all being:

If Skynet itself must come from the broken chip, then Terminators originated from the Endo remains.
Do you understand how this senseless sounds.....Terminators originated from one Terminator? But where did that first Terminator originated from? It's own remains? nope...just doesn't work for me..

Bolded is my response and my question to you!

You say I'm blind, yet you claim that Terminators exist because of Terminator remains! BUT WHAT CREATED TERMINATOR WHO ORIGINATED IT ALL????


I'll say even Wikipedia agrees with me

In the original timeline, at some point after Judgment Day, Cyberdyne Systems, under the control of Skynet, creates the T-600, T-800 and T-1000 series of Terminators.
In the modified timeline, prior to Judgment Day, humans at Cyber Research Systems create several different series of relatively primitive Terminators to replace U.S. soldiers in field combat. At some point after Judgment Day, Skynet-controlled machines create several more advanced series of Terminators, including the T-800 (although its models would not include the Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, since Cyberdyne Systems was destroyed), the T-850 (which is described in the third film as a T-800 upgrade) and the T-X, also known as the Terminatrix.

 

[Sabres21768]

...I'll say even Wikipedia agrees with me

Just because it's on Wiki doesn't make it canon.

All Wikipedia info is created and posted by people from the Internet.

Hell, I could get on there and say that Terminators were created by Smurfs.

As a matter of fact...I did just that.

Look it up.

 

[EndoSickness]

No causality time loop... Then somebody needs to answer the question of where the hell John Connor came from in the non-time loop timeline. If not for Kyle going back, John would not exist. If John doesn't exist, the Resistance, if it even exists, doesn't win. If John doesn't exist, Skynet doesn't lose and send back a Terminator to kill Sarah. If no Terminator gets sent back, no Kyle gets sent back, and we have nothing.

Why is this so hard for you people to understand?

Let's play your game then. No Terminator and no Kyle go back to 1984. Sarah continues being a waitress, finishes school, starts a career, finds a man, marries, has a kid who just so happens to be named John.

John's age will now be different. He might be living in L.A. when the bombs fall. If by some chance he survives the war, he won't be trained by his mother like Kyle said, and therefor won't become the leader of the Resistance to lead mankind to victory against Skynet. No John, the Resistance leader = no Kyle, the sacrifice to save Sarah = no John the hero = mankind goes out forever. Kyle made it very clear in T1 that it was ALL, I repeat ALL becuase of John that the war turned around.

"We were this close to going out forever, but there was one man who taught us to fight, to organize, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal mother____ers into junk. He turned it around."

If Sarah had not known what was coming and what her son would become, the John born by unspectacular occurances could not have become this 'great military leader'.

John exists because Skynet tried to kill his mother. Fact. Watch the goddamn movie. And then watch T2 where Cameron makes it clear through Dyson that Skynet would never have come to pass without that damn chip.

"...things we NEVER would have thought of." That is straight from Cameron's own pen.

I get your point, Surfer, but how should this all start?
It just CAN´T be the same over and over again.
It has to start somewhere how is it supossed to do?
What do you think, serious and interested question...

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Just because it's on Wiki doesn't make it canon.

All Wikipedia info is created and posted by people from the Internet.

Hell, I could get on there and say that Terminators were created by Smurfs.

As a matter of fact...I did just that.

Look it up.

I didn't say it must be correct, I only said that Wiki agrees with me!

And still, nobody didn't cover my points!