ALL THINGS TRANSFORMERS!!!!

[Ra88]

At this stage in the game the complaining about iGear that goes on within the TF community is getting a bit old....

I have to agree. I used to dislike them too for various reasons, but now that they considerably stepped up their quality and are releasing new designs, there really is no longer any reason to dislike them. Especially not as venomously as some people do. iGear really did step up their game.

 

[DPrime]

It isn't "BS" because it's potentially important and worth talking about. Seems that some have a knee-jerk, anti-3rd party stance no matter what. Others seem to have a knee-jerk, pro-3rd party stance no matter what. I'm not on either extreme of that spectrum, and I think this is an interesting phenomenon worthy of honest discussion by those of us who collect.

Well, I can agree with that. Certainly it's worth talking about.

Personally, I'm never gonna just take the stance that "ethics don't matter, I'm just gonna enjoy the ride no matter what." Bootlegging is an important and often troubling issue with collectibles, and I think we should talk and think about where the line between acceptability and unacceptability lies.

True enough. I agree with you that bootlegging is a troubling issue - I guess I just don't think this is "bootlegging".

Those fake versions of original boxed G1 toys? Yeah, that's a problem.

Mint/complete Cobra soldiers passed off as originals? Problem.

Fake GI Joe Heavy Metal microphone? (mint/complete w/original mic brings the value of this figure from, like $10 to $150+) Big problem.

A "copy" of something that is considerably different enough so that it can't be mistaken for the original? Well... to me that's not a bootleg.

Faith Leader and their MP Seekers are different enough from the official releases that no one should buy these thinking they're original Hasbro or Takara toys, nor are they marketed as such. They don't put them in Hasbro boxes, they don't use the official Autobot and Decepticon sigils or names, or even call them Transformers for that matter. These are all copyrights that iGear steer clear of. I guess the question is, is Optimus Prime's LIKENESS copyrighted? Is that even possible, considering how many different versions of these Transformers have been released over the years?

You're right - it's certainly a grey issue, but in the end, it's not something I'm going to get worked up over, because Hasbro isn't offering any of them for sale. Moot point.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah, I agree that this isn't a straight bootleg or "knock-off," for the reasons you put forward. But I really don't know where that line is. If you create a repro box, but intentionally make enough changes so that folks can know it's a repro if they look in the right places, and do the same for the figure inside, is that sufficient?

I'm not sure about the re-offering them for sale issue holds too much weight in my mind. Think of an analogy with Sideshow. No more Doom PFs are even gonna be made. But if re-cast versions were released, it would still be frowned upon by many, including Sideshow. It would diminish the collectibility of the original, and impinge on Sideshow's copyrighted, er, right, to make money off of that statue, because someone is benefiting from the work of someone else.

I've posted many times here that I appreciate 3rd party companies giving us what we want that Hasbro/Takara won't. And in my mind, it is OK to employ character designs created by Hasbro/Takara for that purpose, particularly if they're a bit stylized into their own new creation. But. . .I can see where others would even take issue with that. Lots of gray areas here, indeed.

 

[Deak Starkiller]

Gonna scoop BCM77 on this!!!

https://www.hk-tf.com/discuz/upload/viewthread.php?tid=22623&extra=page=1

https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/460319-anime-igear-thundercracker.html

This might make me break my iGear seeker embargo, I don't like to support this kind of thing but TC looks very nice. I'd prefer silver to grey though, to match SS & SW.

 

[bcm77]

Look at it this way, the money iGear made from their initial releases from "borrowed" molds likely helped get the following projects off the drawing board and into production,

Bumblebee
Cliffjumper
Impactor
Ironhide/Ratchet
Huffer
Seaspray

It doesn't make their alleged dodginess any more right but it is hardly crime of the century either.

Official versions of those characters using the same aesthetic as iGear are extremely unlikely or even beyond Has/Tak....they've been trying for 25 plus years to make a decent cartoon style Ironhide & Ratchet and haven't come close to achieving it.

The real KO's for me are things like the fake G1 reissues, or the CHMS Henkei Seekers that are being passed off as official releases.

An intresting situation has also arisen with the Jizaitoys Wheelie & Powerglide.

Originally released as resin kits with a 1 day official license for them to be sold at a Japanese toy show the designs have now been stolen, upscaled & given a few new joints and are being released with official names and logos so we're seeing a 3rd party ripping off another one....regrettable but with the way the scene has exploded it was only a matter of time before some opportunists got in on the act.

 

[Deak Starkiller]

Look at it this way, the money iGear made from their initial releases from "borrowed" molds likely helped get the following projects off the drawing board and into production,

Bumblebee
Cliffjumper
Impactor
Ironhide/Ratchet
Huffer
Seaspray

It doesn't make their alleged dodginess any more right but it is hardly crime of the century either.

Official versions of those characters using the same aesthetic as iGear are extremely unlikely or even beyond Has/Tak....they've been trying for 25 plus years to make a decent cartoon style Ironhide & Ratchet and haven't come close to achieving it.

The real KO's for me are things like the fake G1 reissues, or the CHMS Henkei Seekers that are being passed off as official releases.

An intresting situation has also arisen with the Jizaitoys Wheelie & Powerglide.

Originally released as resin kits with a 1 day official license for them to be sold at a Japanese toy show the designs have now been stolen, upscaled & given a few new joints and are being released with official names and logos so we're seeing a 3rd party ripping off another one....regrettable but with the way the scene has exploded it was only a matter of time before some opportunists got in on the act.

It's not borrowed, nor alleged...they were stolen. Look I like 3rd party stuff just as much as the next guy but let's be honest iGear's success is clearly built (literally) off of Hasbro. No need to defend/justify them, it's just the facts. Also I'd like them to try their hand at more original ideas/molds. Look at that Kup head, it's awesome and worth every penny!

 

[Dubcustomz]

Im not even gonna bother getting involved in this one.
I will just say one thing, and that the world of collecting transformers is not better because of these third parties, since third party products are NOT Transformers.
Those who collect third party stuff exclusively are NOT collecting Transformers, and are not supporting the brand, the license, or the IP they apparently "love" so much.
What they are collecting are closer to go-bots, or road bots then Transformers.
I wish people would stop acting like its some gift from god that some company is copying/stealing designs and ip's, and releasing them for exorbitant sums of money, because they saw a quick and easy way to earn/cash in after the whole TF customization thing proved so lucrative for individual artists.
How is that helping the Transformers brand?
How is that good for the world of collecting Transformers?

 

[bcm77]

Look I like 3rd party stuff just as much as the next guy but let's be honest iGear's success is clearly built (literally) off of Hasbro. No need to defend/justify them, it's just the facts. Also I'd like them to try their hand at more original ideas/molds. Look at that Kup head, it's awesome and worth every penny!

I don't know the full story so can't really comment any further.

If that is what happened I don't really care because I have no connection with Has/Tak....at least the molds they stole were improved upon.

More original ideas/molds?

So far the following are in various stages of completion,

Arcee ( already out )
Ironhide/Ratchet
Bumblebee
Cliffjumper ( will share the same skeleton as BB but the car mode is going to be different )
Impactor
Huffer
Seaspray

The following have also been hinted at,

Brawn
Pipes
Cosmos
Powerglide
Beachcomber
Wheelie

Headsculpts have also been shown for,

Ironfist
Guzzle
Rotorstorm
Pyro

More would be nice by all means starting with 4 bodies for the other Wreckers they've done the heads for but considering the size of their operation I think the ratio of original to stolen designs is balancing itself out pretty well

 

[Deak Starkiller]

Arcee ( already out ) Not theirs but they released it through their site.
Ironhide/Ratchet
Bumblebee Dude, it's based off of the Classics mold.
Cliffjumper ( will share the same skeleton as BB but the car mode is going to be different ) See above.
Impactor Clearly that's Warpath's body.
Huffer
Seaspray

 

[karamazov80]

What they are collecting are closer to go-bots

Now that I think about it, that Thundercracker does look suspiciously like Go-Bot Fitor. . .

Just an eerie coincidence? You be the judge.

 

[bcm77]

Arcee ( already out ) Not theirs but they released it through their site.
Ironhide/Ratchet
Bumblebee Dude, it's based off of the Classics mold.
Cliffjumper ( will share the same skeleton as BB but the car mode is going to be different ) See above.
Impactor Clearly that's Warpath's body.
Huffer
Seaspray

Arcee may not be their design directly but they decided to distribute it as opposed to stealing the Animated mold, giving it a more G1/Classics style headsculpt and color scheme and releasing that.

This image of Bumblebee clearly shows it's not a direct ripoff of the Classics mold,

There are some similarities, the G1 design means that is inevitable but it's nothing like the original proto they showed several months back that was a Classics BB reshelled as a New Beetle.

According to fabexmax at TFW Impactor is an original mold and will be slightly taller than FansProjects Warbot Defender.

He's not lied about any of the other iGear info he's been allowed to pass on so I see no reason not to believe him.

 

[YoNoSe]

I'm not anti-3rd Party but if someone is saying Impactor is 100% original they are lying. All you need is eyes to see it's been developed from Warpath.

 

[bcm77]

I'm not anti-3rd Party but if someone is saying Impactor is 100% original they are lying. All you need is eyes to see it's been developed from Warpath.

Fabexmax has never lied about any of his info before, he knows the iGear people, unless he or they have suddenly decided to start misleading people I'm more likely to believe him over anyone else.

EDIT
The last 3 letterings for the PP03 series have been revealed,

PP03-J "Jet" ( Ramjet )
PP03-A "Attack" ( Thrust )
PP03-E "Elegy" ( Dirge )

PP03-S "Storm" ( Sunstorm )
PP03-C "Current" ( purple/blue & white Seeker with no official name )
PP03-L "Lightning" ( Thundercracker )

PP03-T
PP03-D
PP03-R

The other 3 should be Starscream, Skywarp & a green Rainmaker....maybe "T" stands for Teleporter and "R" is Rain???

Which would leave the "D" for Starscream but I'm not sure what it could stand for.

"Elegy" is a Latin term for a mournful song which can also be called a dirge so maybe it's another clever bit of wordplay on iGear's part.

 

[Gipetto0812]

So far the following are in various stages of completion,

Arcee ( already out )
Ironhide/Ratchet
Bumblebee
Cliffjumper ( will share the same skeleton as BB but the car mode is going to be different )
Impactor
Huffer
Seaspray

I don't collect third party stuff so I'm not in the know, but what are the scale of these listed above? Are they like Masterpiece type figures similar to the Faith Leader and the recently shown Thundercracker?

 

[Apone]

I have no problems with the third party guys..I just recently got back into transformers from a 18 year hiatus...and there are certain characters I would like to have, Starscream being one of them..but just getting back in, its tough as hell to find a MP one for under $130...I am all for the 3rd party repros.

 

[Ra88]

Yeah, Impactor is clearly based off the Warpath mold, but they made significant changes, so it doesn't really matter.

Im not even gonna bother getting involved in this one.

Good, because nobody actually cares what you think anymore.

I will just say one thing, and that the world of collecting transformers is not better because of these third parties, since third party products are NOT Transformers.
Those who collect third party stuff exclusively are NOT collecting Transformers, and are not supporting the brand, the license, or the IP they apparently "love" so much.
What they are collecting are closer to go-bots, or road bots then Transformers.
I wish people would stop acting like its some gift from god that some company is copying/stealing designs and ip's, and releasing them for exorbitant sums of money, because they saw a quick and easy way to earn/cash in after the whole TF customization thing proved so lucrative for individual artists.
How is that helping the Transformers brand?
How is that good for the world of collecting Transformers?

Wow, that's really staying out of it and not getting involved champ.

 

[karamazov80]

I don't collect third party stuff so I'm not in the know, but what are the scale of these listed above? Are they like Masterpiece type figures similar to the Faith Leader and the recently shown Thundercracker?

Seems like iGear is making those roughly in scale with Faith Leader. So, probably more Classics scale in general. But the Huffer and Seaspray are gonna be really small, so more like the scale of their G1 counterparts in relation to the bigger vehicles at the time.

 

[karamazov80]

I just noticed this on TFW's front page in relation to iGear 'Cracker:

"As this piece is so directly infringing upon Hasbro and Takara's IP, moreso than any of the other pieces released to date, we would urge anyone looking for a Masterpiece Thundercracker to see out the real thing from Takara themselves."

I reckon they gotta do what they gotta do to appease Hasbro and Takara.

This is getting at what I was referring to before though. Obviously I'm not the only one who sees this figure as crossing a line iGear hasn't really crossed before, and I do wonder if that boundary-pushing won't potentially jeopardize Has/Tak's overall policy toward 3rd party companies if iGear et al. don't reign these things in a bit. .

 

[lerath666]

I'd love to get an official Takara Skywarp, but I'm not paying 6 times what it's worth.
I'll pay twice it's value, and grumble, that that's it.

( for the record, I'm saying it's worth about 50$)

 

[YoNoSe]

Yeah, Impactor is clearly based off the Warpath mold, but they made significant changes, so it doesn't really matter.

I don't have a problem with them using him as a starting point - that's the epitome of the 3rd Party / Custom comparison Silent Bob made.

I just wasn't aware that they were claiming it was 100% original. I understand if they have to say that but it's obviously untrue.