ANH Luke

[ProgMatinee]

I think both AOTC and ROTS needed a little more TPM rather than the other way around, IMO. I liked the lighter tone of TPM.

 

[IrishJedi]

I think both AOTC and ROTS needed a little more TPM rather than the other way around, IMO. I liked the lighter tone of TPM.

No. Lighter tone to Lucas equals farting camels. That's BAD.

And when he did try to insert lighter moments into movies like AOTC, we got things like the awful shot of Anakin surfing on that fat space cow or whatever the hell it was. No way, Jose.

 

[Darklord Dave]

If they got rid of young Anakin completely, then TPM might be okay. He just ruins the whole thing for me.

 

[ProgMatinee]

No. Lighter tone to Lucas equals farting camels. That's BAD.

And when he did try to insert lighter moments into movies like AOTC, we got things like the awful shot of Anakin surfing on that fat space cow or whatever the hell it was. No way, Jose.

LOL. Thats true. I'm not talking about one liners or farting. More like the fact that the pod race was a diversion from more pressing things like the invasion of Naboo.

Everything in AOTC and ROTS is heart surgery. And I'll take young Anakin over teenage angst Anakin anyday.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

If they got rid of young Anakin completely, then TPM might be okay. He just ruins the whole thing for me.

Lucas should have started with him as an angry confused young teenager. It would've made his descent to the darkside far more believeable than starting out with that completely selfless, compassionate little boy. The slavery aspect should have been much harsher as well.

 

[ProgMatinee]

While I liked the lighter TPM and Jake Lloyd's Anakin, I would say, I'd bump his age if it meant getting to the Darth Vader turn sooner (like midway in ROTS) and allowed scenes of armored DV killing Jedi.

 

[IrishJedi]

My preferred PT:

Episode I: Labyrinth of Evil (elements from AOTC)

Episode II: Revenge of The Sith (Anakin turning to Vader should have been THE cliffhanger of the PT)

Episode III: The Rise of Darth Vader

The rest (i.e., TPM) could have been told in Opening Crawls.

We'd have to sacrifice cool characters like Maul and Qui-Gon (or replace Dooku with Maul) but I believe that would make for a more cohesive saga overall. Plus, we'd get to see armored Vader kicking ass instead of crying like a girl.

 

[pixletwin]

The point in Anakins character arch was how does a good person become bad and then find redemption. If Lucas had started Anakin from the begining with an evil streak it would have defeated his whole purpose. Anakin needed to start out as innocent and wide-eyed. (I believe that this is the reason why the school yard scuffle with Greedo was cut-aside from it being a stupid plot point).

If you watch The Phantom Edit, it does a really good job of toning down Anakin's character.

 

[IrishJedi]

The point in Anakins character arch was how does a good person become bad and then find redemption. If Lucas had started Anakin from the begining with an evil streak it would have defeated his whole purpose. Anakin needed to start out as innocent and wide-eyed. (I believe that this is the reason why the school yard scuffle with Greedo was cut-aside from it being a stupid plot point).

If you watch The Phantom Edit, it does a really good job of toning down Anakin's character.

The problem is Anakin's arc is almost completely ineffective because Jake Lloyd sucked up the joint and you want to punch the moody teenage punk in AOTC through a brick wall.

 

[MaulFan]

If you watch The Phantom Edit, it does a really good job of toning down Anakin's character.

Where can you see The Phantom Edit, I've never even heard of that.

 

[pixletwin]

Where can you see The Phantom Edit, I've never even heard of that.

www.mininova.org had a few up for download.

I understand what you are saying Irish, but IMO The Phantom Edit shows that Lil' Ani didn't have to be nearly as annoying as he came off with better editing.

 

[IrishJedi]

Indeed, a lot of things could have been helped in the PT through better editing, like the pod race example I gave earlier.

 

[DarthNeil]

If they got rid of young Anakin completely, then TPM might be okay. He just ruins the whole thing for me.

I think though that he wasn't in there for you (or me for that matter either). He was in there for the 7 to 12 year old who would have TPM as their first exposure to SW. I've heard many people with kids say that TPM for them is all about the coolness of Maul (obviously), the funny antics of Jar Jar (childish humour), and seeing it all through the eyes of who they can identify as a peer.

It'd be nice if the young character wasn't so annoying but I don't think it was created/written/targeted at us. Same reason for Jar Jar's antics (which many kids really liked...go figure).

 

[The Josh]

The point in Anakins character arch was how does a good person become bad and then find redemption. If Lucas had started Anakin from the begining with an evil streak it would have defeated his whole purpose. Anakin needed to start out as innocent and wide-eyed. (I believe that this is the reason why the school yard scuffle with Greedo was cut-aside from it being a stupid plot point).

That's what I was thinking as well. You have to start him out the way they did so the fall is more tragic. At least for me seeing him go from a small boy who just wanted to do good to what he becames is really quite sad.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

That's what I was thinking as well. You have to start him out the way they did so the fall is more tragic. At least for me seeing him go from a small boy who just wanted to do good to what he becames is really quite sad.

But why he becomes that way doesn't make any sense to me. How do you go from being completely selfless and compassionate to a total prick. Lots of good people loose loved ones, they don't go out and kill babies because of it. Such a drastic swing just isn't plausible to me.

 

[IrishJedi]

But why he becomes that way doesn't make any sense to me. How do you go from being completely selfless and compassionate to a total prick. Lots of good people loose loved ones, they don't go out and kill babies because of it. Such a drastic swing just isn't plausible to me.

 

[ProgMatinee]

That's what I was thinking as well. You have to start him out the way they did so the fall is more tragic. At least for me seeing him go from a small boy who just wanted to do good to what he becames is really quite sad.

I think for me by botching AOTC, they kinda ruined that point.

Very quickly in AOTC I forget how innocent Anakin was in TPM and just want Obi-Wan to biatch slap him. A little more of that innocence carryover from TPM into AOTC could have helped. Instead, we jump straight to that creepy elevator scene where Anakin is talking to Obi-Wan about his obsession over Padme...very creepy.

Also, for me, I think the change in Anakin should have been more slowly developed over TPM and AOTC, but once Anakin makes that turn (IMO killing the Tuskens) they don't need any more developement. Thats it, line crossed, he has become an enemy to the Jedi, Obi-Wan "kills" him in the middle of ROTS and the rest is him and the emperor getting revenge.

Effectively, at the beginning of ROTS Anakin would be the Grievous role of leader of the seperatists with Obi-Wan chasing after him.

 

[The Mike]

I disagree...given Anakin's living situations he could have easily been a product of his own environment, being a slave, having to live without knowing too much about his own past, feeling trapped on Tatooine, this could have caused the dark streak within him. Finding out about his Jedi ability and his chosen one status would fill him with a sense of grandeur that would ultimately lead to a falling because he became power and vengeance hungry taking out his aggressions on the entire galaxy since one pinpoint couldn't be held. Anakin should have been an elitist from the moment he found out he was special because he would have felt entitled and the his negative outlook on life would easily transition onto not being able to follow the Jedi's righteous path....going that route would make his redemption make much more sense because Anakin would stop the self pity and realize his place in something greater, The Force. He would see how his life lead to the same "stuck on Tatooine" living situation with his son and how much he really lost by turning to the Darkside. Having a "Yippee Anakin" was not at all needed to make the Redemption work, the darker the beginnings the more evident the self realization that leads to the redemption.

 

[The Mike]

we jump straight to that creepy elevator scene where Anakin is talking to Obi-Wan about his obsession over Padme...very creepy.

See if Anakin were written with more entitlement, one could say the elevator scene could have been that he felt because he was the chosen one he deserved a Queen, Padme specifically and that could have easily led to Obi-Wan talking about the Jedi Code and their higher purpose...I think that would have worked slightly more than the obsession angle...

 

[MaulFan]

But why he becomes that way doesn't make any sense to me. How do you go from being completely selfless and compassionate to a total prick. Lots of good people loose loved ones, they don't go out and kill babies because of it. Such a drastic swing just isn't plausible to me.

The killing of the Tuskens wasn't like a quick turn though, it was a culmination of things. The trouble is, Lucas' storytelling didn't cover enough and leaves things open for people to view that turning point as you have. The key to Anakin's story arc comes in Palpatine's office in AOTC, it defines how he goes from TPM to ROTS. Anakin insists his success is due to Palpatine's guidance, indicating that the Chancellor has been throwing him tidbits since the two met in TPM, and Palpatine responds by filling Anakin's head with the notion that he is more powerful than even Yoda. Anakin's whole life between landing on Coruscant in TPM and AOTC had been filled with him hearing how he's special and the chosen one and all that, and TPM Anakin indicated big ideals like freeing all the slaves of Tatooine. Anakin wanted power, for good purposes, but he wanted power, and he repeatedly expresses his frustration in AOTC of not achieving yet what he felt he was capable of. Having his mother die in his arms was just the last straw with that frustration, a moment that showed him that he's "not all powerful" despite feeling that he should be and he even vows that he will be. Throughout history, people are corrupted by greed and even the kindest of souls can turn blackest if consumed by greed, and Anakin was. ROTS more clearly showed the points that pushed Anakin over the edge, if Lucas had done more of that in AOTC, the switch from boy to Jedi Apprentice full of rage would have been smoother and sat better with more viewiers.