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It raises the price of everything else.
It does not. It didn't raise the price of everything else when it was a living wage 50 years ago, so you are mistaken.

The fundamental problem is the heads of corporations keep to large a percentage of the profits for themselves while everyone else has to pay for it.
The way to fix the problem is for heads of corporations to divert money that they have been giving to themselves to the minimum wage workers, because their diverting funds from the workers is what has caused the problem.

The heads of companies have gotten more and more greedy over the decades until their workers don't make a living wage.

There is only so much money in the world to go around, and since it's the same amount of resources as there was 50 years ago, and things were sustainable 50 years ago, you have to ask how the allocation of money has changed. It would be one thing if everyone made more and had a higher standard of living, but it isn't like that.
It's all how the resources are allocated.

Education to get better jobs doesn't work to fix the problem, because most jobs are minimum wage jobs and someone has to do them. If everyone was educated enough to do higher paying jobs, how would the minimum wage jobs get done? They wouldn't.
Are there enough high paying jobs that reward higher education for those who get educated? No. There never have been. Not in all of history. There never will be.
That is why so many people who have a college education who can't pay off student loans.
There will never be enough jobs for all those people. Colleges perpetuate the myth that jobs will be available for those who get educated and they are more than excited to take people's money and drive them into debt to do it.

If people in management take too large a percentage of the profits, there will never be enough for most people to live on, period, unless they live off of welfare or credit, or welfare off credit.
There is only so much money to go around and some people act like if people just work harder and get educated, they can make it, that everyone can. It isn't true. It's impossible. There is simply only so many resources and money on Earth. It isn't like more value comes out of thin air if they get educated or work hard enough.
 
yeah a lot of that makes sense. Specially the college part. It reminds me what Mike from Dirty jobs was saying before,he pretty much says the same thing about those high pay jobs

 
It does not. It didn't raise the price of everything else when it was a living wage 50 years ago, so you are mistaken.

The fundamental problem is the heads of corporations keep to large a percentage of the profits for themselves while everyone else has to pay for it.
The way to fix the problem is for heads of corporations to divert money that they have been giving to themselves to the minimum wage workers, because their diverting funds from the workers is what has caused the problem.

The heads of companies have gotten more and more greedy over the decades until their workers don't make a living wage.

There is only so much money in the world to go around, and since it's the same amount of resources as there was 50 years ago, and things were sustainable 50 years ago, you have to ask how the allocation of money has changed. It would be one thing if everyone made more and had a higher standard of living, but it isn't like that.
It's all how the resources are allocated.

Education to get better jobs doesn't work to fix the problem, because most jobs are minimum wage jobs and someone has to do them. If everyone was educated enough to do higher paying jobs, how would the minimum wage jobs get done? They wouldn't.
Are there enough high paying jobs that reward higher education for those who get educated? No. There never have been. Not in all of history. There never will be.
That is why so many people who have a college education who can't pay off student loans.
There will never be enough jobs for all those people. Colleges perpetuate the myth that jobs will be available for those who get educated and they are more than excited to take people's money and drive them into debt to do it.

If people in management take too large a percentage of the profits, there will never be enough for most people to live on, period, unless they live off of welfare or credit, or welfare off credit.
There is only so much money to go around and some people act like if people just work harder and get educated, they can make it, that everyone can. It isn't true. It's impossible. There is simply only so many resources and money on Earth. It isn't like more value comes out of thin air if they get educated or work hard enough.
Your post are quite socialistic in nature. You're saying the amount of money floating around now is the same as 50 years ago? Really? You are right in the point that education will not make every thing equal but not for the reason you say. We are not all created equal. There will always be people to do the minimum wage jobs because for some people that is all they can do. They just don't have the knowledge and never will to better themselves. So we should artificially inflate their wages to make it some how more equal? As far as college goes, how many people spend tens of thousands of dollars getting degrees for jobs that either don't pay well or have very little chance of success? People 50 years ago realized they had to work hard and start on the bottom. Not so much today. The owner of the company I work for has a hell of a time hiring people. My job can be stressful, dirty, physically hard. Too many people don't want jobs like this anymore even though you stay in it long enough and learn what you're doing it pays well.
 
I understand raising minimum wage will make everything else go up, but then how were they able to raise it before?
 
I understand raising minimum wage will make everything else go up, but then how were they able to raise it before?

Everything else went up, and minimum wage work became harder to find. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

SnakeDoc
 
Knowing specifics about an issue> assuming things based upon believing there is nothing wrong with the status quo you have been brainwashed into believing, and brainwash others into believing, perpetuating the cycle.

I have never stated that I believe there is nothing wrong with the status quo. I am simply aware that the world in which we live is not an ideal, and that there are many stakeholders in the status quo whose opinions and livelihoods must be considered and fairly countenanced in the face of the revolutionary ideals born from zealotry.

Zealots just care about a problem, they are not invested in determining practical solutions.
 
Your post are quite socialistic in nature. You're saying the amount of money floating around now is the same as 50 years ago? Really? You are right in the point that education will not make every thing equal but not for the reason you say. We are not all created equal. There will always be people to do the minimum wage jobs because for some people that is all they can do. They just don't have the knowledge and never will to better themselves. So we should artificially inflate their wages to make it some how more equal? As far as college goes, how many people spend tens of thousands of dollars getting degrees for jobs that either don't pay well or have very little chance of success? People 50 years ago realized they had to work hard and start on the bottom. Not so much today. The owner of the company I work for has a hell of a time hiring people. My job can be stressful, dirty, physically hard. Too many people don't want jobs like this anymore even though you stay in it long enough and learn what you're doing it pays well.

If people are going to live, they need to be paid enough money to be able to live.
If a business needs people to work for them, it is their obligation to pay them enough to live.

If you are going to design a society, that is how it needs to be to be sustainable.
Companies aren't obligated to pay people enough to be rich, just a living wage.

How else can jobs get done without workers, and how can you have workers unless they are living people?
How can people live unless they are paid enough money?
The government shouldn't have to pay the difference.
You do understand all that?

Sure, all people aren't equal, but everyone who does a job should get at least a living wage for it, with higher skill jobs paying more.

We don't artificially inflate wages. We put wages back to where they always were before when people made a living wage even at minimum wage.
You see, wages were made ARTIFICIALLY LOW by big businesses.
Paying a living wage just reverses that injustice to the workers and the government.


I respect the fact that you made a career as a machinist. A machinist is a respectable profession. I realize that you worked hard to get where you are. I respect that as well.
However, you probably should be paid more, and everyone else should get at least a living wage.

Imagine you are playing a video game about how to build and keep a civilization going. Do you think that civilization would last if the minimum wage workers didn't get a living wage? They would need to get money from a source other than their job. It might be drugs or stealing or prostitution, or welfare or credit, but the extra money would have to come from somewhere.
There might even be revolution in this game. You would need to divert funds to pay for more police and the military, ect.

If people don't get enough money to live on from their jobs, where will they get it?
If those people die, they can't work anymore. Those people aren't going to want to die, especially if they have families. They will commit crime first.

Even at the bottom 50 years ago they still got more pay than they do today.

Those who own McDonalds and Wal-Mart and KFC ect have the money to pay their workers more but they don't because they want to keep it for themselves.
Prices would not NEED to increase at Wal Mart, ect in order for people to be paid more. That family that owns Wal mart makes 120 million per person for 6 people. They aren't worth it. They don't contribute that much. If they employed everyone at a living wage plus benefits then maybe they would be worth 20 million per. It probably should be more like 8 million per. They take money but don't provide that much value. They mainly take. The same with Mc Donalds, ect.
Car manufacturers cut workers , have bad sales records for their products, and yet the CEOs give themselves bonuses. Hmm.

What you have to understand is that the money to pay these people to live is coming from somewhere if they are living. If it isn't from their jobs it is from crime or from the government.

That's just the way it is. The question is where is the money coming from? Shouldn't the money come from the employers instead of from the government? Either tax dollars or government credit is paying for it. People are paying more either way, whether they like it or not or they know it or not.

People are paying NOW. Taxpayers are paying now.
However, companies like Google put their money overseas so it isn't taxed, and then they loan it to the U.S. government with interest. They should just be paying that in taxes, but nope. All so the top people can make the most money, and they avoid paying their fair share, for the benefits of the system they reap more than anyone else.
 
If people are going to live, they need to be paid enough money to be able to live.
If a business needs people to work for them, it is their obligation to pay them enough to live.

If you are going to design a society, that is how it needs to be to be sustainable.
Companies aren't obligated to pay people enough to be rich, just a living wage.

How else can jobs get done without workers, and how can you have workers unless they are living people?
How can people live unless they are paid enough money?
The government shouldn't have to pay the difference.
You do understand all that?

Sure, all people aren't equal, but everyone who does a job should get at least a living wage for it, with higher skill jobs paying more.

We don't artificially inflate wages. We put wages back to where they always were before when people made a living wage even at minimum wage.
You see, wages were made ARTIFICIALLY LOW by big businesses.
Paying a living wage just reverses that injustice to the workers and the government.


I respect the fact that you made a career as a machinist. A machinist is a respectable profession. I realize that you worked hard to get where you are. I respect that as well.
However, you probably should be paid more, and everyone else should get at least a living wage.

Imagine you are playing a video game about how to build and keep a civilization going. Do you think that civilization would last if the minimum wage workers didn't get a living wage? They would need to get money from a source other than their job. It might be drugs or stealing or prostitution, or welfare or credit, but the extra money would have to come from somewhere.
There might even be revolution in this game. You would need to divert funds to pay for more police and the military, ect.

If people don't get enough money to live on from their jobs, where will they get it?
If those people die, they can't work anymore. Those people aren't going to want to die, especially if they have families. They will commit crime first.

Even at the bottom 50 years ago they still got more pay than they do today.

Those who own McDonalds and Wal-Mart and KFC ect have the money to pay their workers more but they don't because they want to keep it for themselves.
Prices would not NEED to increase at Wal Mart, ect in order for people to be paid more. That family that owns Wal mart makes 120 million per person for 6 people. They aren't worth it. They don't contribute that much. If they employed everyone at a living wage plus benefits then maybe they would be worth 20 million per. It probably should be more like 8 million per. They take money but don't provide that much value. They mainly take. The same with Mc Donalds, ect.
Car manufacturers cut workers , have bad sales records for their products, and yet the CEOs give themselves bonuses. Hmm.

What you have to understand is that the money to pay these people to live is coming from somewhere if they are living. If it isn't from their jobs it is from crime or from the government.

That's just the way it is. The question is where is the money coming from? Shouldn't the money come from the employers instead of from the government? Either tax dollars or government credit is paying for it. People are paying more either way, whether they like it or not or they know it or not.

People are paying NOW. Taxpayers are paying now.
However, companies like Google put their money overseas so it isn't taxed, and then they loan it to the U.S. government with interest. They should just be paying that in taxes, but nope. All so the top people can make the most money, and they avoid paying their fair share, for the benefits of the system they reap more than anyone else.
Ugh, I'm not even going to try to answer your points as I have quite a nice buzz on. I will answer your point about companies needing people to do jobs so that companies make money. Actually no. Since all the occupy Wall Street and minimum wage stuff has been blowing up many companies have been exploring other options to curb spending. The kiosks that are popping up all over are just a forerunner to getting rid of wait staff and you placing your whole order on the kiosk. Before long everything in the fast food industry will be automated with restaurants running with a skeleton staff.
 
Those people would be defending their lifestyles, not their actual lives.

Palestinians are defending their lifestyles?

Perhaps you mean a sustainable economy that does not involve the necessity of living on credit from other countries to keep it going?

Our economy does not run on government debt. Government debt is a function of altruism. The unsustainability of this economy exists on account of government interference with natural/rational economic mechanisms. Controls breed control which is why the drones are whining for living wages, etc. This is an altruist bed. Sleep tight.
 
Ugh, I'm not even going to try to answer your points as I have quite a nice buzz on. I will answer your point about companies needing people to do jobs so that companies make money. Actually no. Since all the occupy Wall Street and minimum wage stuff has been blowing up many companies have been exploring other options to curb spending. The kiosks that are popping up all over are just a forerunner to getting rid of wait staff and you placing your whole order on the kiosk. Before long everything in the fast food industry will be automated with restaurants running with a skeleton staff.

To be honest, that was coming long before the minimum wage stuff came out. Hell, look at all the robots Amazon uses.
 
Ugh, I'm not even going to try to answer your points as I have quite a nice buzz on. I will answer your point about companies needing people to do jobs so that companies make money. Actually no. Since all the occupy Wall Street and minimum wage stuff has been blowing up many companies have been exploring other options to curb spending. The kiosks that are popping up all over are just a forerunner to getting rid of wait staff and you placing your whole order on the kiosk. Before long everything in the fast food industry will be automated with restaurants running with a skeleton staff.

like those new burger machines :lol



the worst thing is that the machine is actually nicer than a person would be lol
 
Palestinians are defending their lifestyles?



Our economy does not run on government debt. Government debt is a function of altruism. The unsustainability of this economy exists on account of government interference with natural/rational economic mechanisms. Controls breed control which is why the drones are whining for living wages, etc. This is an altruist bed. Sleep tight.

Yes, Palestinians are fighting for a lifestyle. They want land occupied by the Jews and because Palestinians are Arabs, and most of the Middle East is Arab, they want the Jews out of the Middle East. The fact that Jerusalem has been a holy place for Jews and Christians for thousands of years doesn't count for them. They just want the Jews gone. They could go live amongst other Arabs in surrounding countries, but then they couldn't get the Jews out, and they want the Jews out.


The Jews on the other hand made Israel an an exclusively Jewish country, for the sake of Jewish solidarity and security. That means if you aren't Jewish, you are a potential threat, and they will tolerate you at best. Israel isn't just a country. It is a an exclusively Jewish stronghold. That was the idea behind the founding of Israel, I am certain. Given that Jerusalem is there, and it is such a small part of the world, I have no problem whatsoever with the existence of Israel as it is. In fact, I believe in it wholeheartedly.

The Jews have every right to be as militant as they are after being enslaved by the Egyptians and massacred by the Nazis, as well as being persecuted by others. I understand their resolve. The Palestinians are just another bunch of Arabs who would just as soon see the Jews driven into the sea were their positions reversed.
The Palestinians don't need to live in Israel or near it. The only reason they are there is because they want to drive the Jews out and conquer Israel as their own.

As far as government debt being a function of altruism, how about the rich paying their fair share of tax? How about a flat tax of say 20% which is impossible to get out of with any deductions or exemptions for the rich?
The problem is the rich avoid taxes and receive government subsidies and bailouts instead of having to pay for their bad business decisions out of their own pockets, which they could and should do.

They fabricate artificial dividers between the money of the CEOs and the company's money. Same with banks.
Big businesses get more money in the form of altruism for the rich than anyone else.

I agree with you.
Government subsidies for the rich DO interfere with natural/rational economic mechanisms! Hear! Hear!
 
Well, thank JFK for that. The policy of government helping business instead of hindering it was his baby (practice; not theory). The theory is that it would help everyone, being that businesses create jobs. It makes sense. Without jobs, the real tax base of the country could not exist.

I do not disagree regarding the nature of Israel (nor the Confederates, nor the Nazis). What I am trying to show you is that necessity is not the foundation of a moral justification for killing. The foundation is the right to life, which is exclusively human.
 
the worst thing is that the machine is actually nicer than a person would be lol

If you had to put up with what some of those people working fast food for minimum wage had to put up with, you'd be *****y too.
 
Yes, Palestinians are fighting for a lifestyle. They want land occupied by the Jews and because Palestinians are Arabs, and most of the Middle East is Arab, they want the Jews out of the Middle East. The fact that Jerusalem has been a holy place for Jews and Christians for thousands of years doesn't count for them. They just want the Jews gone. They could go live amongst other Arabs in surrounding countries, but then they couldn't get the Jews out, and they want the Jews out.


The Jews on the other hand made Israel an an exclusively Jewish country, for the sake of Jewish solidarity and security. That means if you aren't Jewish, you are a potential threat, and they will tolerate you at best. Israel isn't just a country. It is a an exclusively Jewish stronghold. That was the idea behind the founding of Israel, I am certain. Given that Jerusalem is there, and it is such a small part of the world, I have no problem whatsoever with the existence of Israel as it is. In fact, I believe in it wholeheartedly.

The Jews have every right to be as militant as they are after being enslaved by the Egyptians and massacred by the Nazis, as well as being persecuted by others. I understand their resolve. The Palestinians are just another bunch of Arabs who would just as soon see the Jews driven into the sea were their positions reversed.
The Palestinians don't need to live in Israel or near it. The only reason they are there is because they want to drive the Jews out and conquer Israel as their own.

As far as government debt being a function of altruism, how about the rich paying their fair share of tax? How about a flat tax of say 20% which is impossible to get out of with any deductions or exemptions for the rich?
The problem is the rich avoid taxes and receive government subsidies and bailouts instead of having to pay for their bad business decisions out of their own pockets, which they could and should do.

They fabricate artificial dividers between the money of the CEOs and the company's money. Same with banks.
Big businesses get more money in the form of altruism for the rich than anyone else.

I agree with you.
Government subsidies for the rich DO interfere with natural/rational economic mechanisms! Hear! Hear!

I actually agree with the bold opinion. Aaaaand...that's enough internet for today.
 
If you had to put up with what some of those people working fast food for minimum wage had to put up with, you'd be *****y too.

I've had. (not in fast food) I was never rude to any new customers. Why take it out on people that are innocent of that? that makes no sense lol
If anything I was extra nice to the nice people, not the opposite :)
 
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