Asmus Toys : Frodo Baggins and Samwise Gamgee

[Keegan]

Hear, Hear! My apologies for slinging criticism without something constructive to back it up. Thanks for continuing to listen to us nitpicking nerfherders, Asmus!

 

[Wor-Gar]

I don't think anyone was singling you (or anyone) out. It's a bad habit we all are guilty of from time to time.

But apologies are always refreshing and all too often unsaid.

 

[Sassafras]

While I agree that Frodo and Sam need work...nitpicking about the lower lip might be taking it just a little too far. There's constructive criticism and then there's being obnoxious. I think, for the most part, Asmus enjoys the feedback and takes what we have to say seriously, but when we nitpick about such subtle things it makes it seem like the work isn't good enough and I think it has a lot to do with why they seem to interact less here.

Paint apps is a big thing, the sculpt of the face as a whole is a big thing. But lower lip? C'mon, man.

Certainly wasn't my intent to be "obnoxious", but coming from artist concepts of portraits - e.g what makes, on 1:6 scale and re any portrait - what makes a known face "on" or "off"? What "nails" a likeness?

E.g., what ASMUS artists already know - the concept of breaking a face into lines, proportions, SHAPES. As far as I can tell, when developing a likeness, what might be viewed as "nitpicking" is all you CAN do with facial features - or as an artist friend said "welcome to the world of portrait likenesses". E.g. "subleties" are the difference between nailing a likeness - or not.

And, yes, staring at the posted images side by side, and looking at facial features, EW's face - including the mouth - to me come off, in pictures, as softer than the sculpt, and that leads to staring very hard at WHY. Same for any facial feature - how much of an eyelid, how close are the eyes, how full are the cheeks, proportions of the nose. Maybe you would approach doing a portrait differently?

Maybe ASMUS artists will look at some EW pics and agree, or maybe not *shrug*. There's factoring in the sculpt-to-final media issue too.

IMO it's respectful and helpful to be specific, as opposed to "that's looking pretty good, man!" Time is money. Never mind ANY company who puts out stuff that's "good enough" and then sales are low and that's the end of that line, which means fans miss out.

IMO these figs are about the portrait as well as the costumes, which ASMUS knows and is working hard at. Otherwise might as well go pick up the old LOTR SS stuff. And kudos to ASMUS, as always, for asking for feedback.

 

[RandomHero]

No offense, but your post comes off as rambling and the complete opposite of constructive criticism. It's not helping. I'm sure Asmus has done all of their homework in looking at portraits of the actors, tried several different sculpts, discussed changes, etc. They're taken a lot of feedback on these boards, and from talking to the people at NYCC yesterday, they really seem like they care about doing a great job with these. They want to do this line justice, they want it to be big and they really want it be a home run. The two ladies at their booth couldn't have been more enthusiastic about how excited they are about this line. And you think they're doing this just to be "good enough".

You keep talking about portraits, these aren't portraits, they're sculpts. Sculpting is a completely different ballgame. Nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect, and anyone who thinks any sculpt is going to be 100% perfect are in for a rude awakening. Look at a bust of George Washington and then look at a painting, and you'll see plenty of differences, and if there were cameras back then, there would have been differences from how things looked on film. There are always going to be imperfections.

If you want to talk constructive criticism, you need to talk about things that can be changed that are realistic. When Gandalf came out, the nose genuinely looked too big, the sculpt looked like it had too many wrinkles that made him look old and the paint app just looked a little off. He looked sickly - it was a genuine concern. Seeing the product in person, I feel like an idiot for ever thinking that in the first place. But things like that are relevant. Talking about the lower lip being slightly off, or the eyes being a quarter of a centimeter too closer....no one is ever going to look at that and say that alone is a reason you can't buy a figure.

You're nitpicking way too much, and if you want Asmus to continue to be the one company that listens to us, you need to soften up on what you're complaining about. A lot of people do. They've been good to us - let's be good to them. It benefits both parties. You don't see Hot Toys, Sideshow, Star Ace, etc taking feedback and actively making changes in the design stages like Asmus does. Don't make them feel like it's not worth it to check in here.

 

[CanadianBrandon]

We value the comments on Frodo and Sam,
once they are back, we will revisit and make them better.

This is why we I'm still here. A company who listenes to the fans and does their best to improve. I'll shut my gab and I look forward to seeing the update. Thanks for being vocal on the forum

 

[Keegan]

I don't think anyone was singling you (or anyone) out. It's a bad habit we all are guilty of from time to time.

But apologies are always refreshing and all too often unsaid.

Thanks man and cheers! It's a passionate community no doubt. But I think we all know why we're here:

 

[Keegan]

Oh and the "fat one" too. I'm going to start bashing a "crumbs on his jacketses" accessory tomorrow. After breakfast, extended edition.

 

[RandomHero]

Extra Lambas bread or bust!

 

[Sassafras]

No offense, but your post comes off as rambling and the complete opposite of constructive criticism. It's not helping. I'm sure Asmus has done all of their homework in looking at portraits of the actors, tried several different sculpts, discussed changes, etc. They're taken a lot of feedback on these boards, and from talking to the people at NYCC yesterday, they really seem like they care about doing a great job with these. They want to do this line justice, they want it to be big and they really want it be a home run. The two ladies at their booth couldn't have been more enthusiastic about how excited they are about this line. And you think they're doing this just to be "good enough".

You keep talking about portraits, these aren't portraits, they're sculpts. Sculpting is a completely different ballgame. Nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect, and anyone who thinks any sculpt is going to be 100% perfect are in for a rude awakening. Look at a bust of George Washington and then look at a painting, and you'll see plenty of differences, and if there were cameras back then, there would have been differences from how things looked on film. There are always going to be imperfections.

If you want to talk constructive criticism, you need to talk about things that can be changed that are realistic. When Gandalf came out, the nose genuinely looked too big, the sculpt looked like it had too many wrinkles that made him look old and the paint app just looked a little off. He looked sickly - it was a genuine concern. Seeing the product in person, I feel like an idiot for ever thinking that in the first place. But things like that are relevant. Talking about the lower lip being slightly off, or the eyes being a quarter of a centimeter too closer....no one is ever going to look at that and say that alone is a reason you can't buy a figure.

You're nitpicking way too much, and if you want Asmus to continue to be the one company that listens to us, you need to soften up on what you're complaining about. A lot of people do. They've been good to us - let's be good to them. It benefits both parties. You don't see Hot Toys, Sideshow, Star Ace, etc taking feedback and actively making changes in the design stages like Asmus does. Don't make them feel like it's not worth it to check in here.

*Shrug* - was trying to make a point without being rude/inflammatory - but, OK. I don't want to go round and round in a thread (btw, I thought Gandalf's nose was too big, as well, and IMO in hand his face is amazing). So, re:

And you think they're doing this just to be "good enough".

No. I don't think that. Sculpts aside, no company spends so much time on IMO good quality SA accessories/costumes if they don't care. Metal swords, even. Then every single accessory has to be dealt with re packaging.

Appreciate that you, and others - and include myself here - are very supportive of the company. I hope many, many people are, because as far as I know not only are they one of the few companies picking up the LOTR/Hobbit line, as you point out they are working hard at it. They've already put out some stellar stuff, and I can't wait to get my hands on Thranduil and possibly Legolas, Thorin, Gimli, and might get Bard and MOS. If nothing else, actually spending money on a fig is a huge compliment - because there is a lot of good stuff out there and a lot of folks including me have to pick and choose.

 

[Bucky Underbelly]

The term "portrait" has multiple meanings in the art world. Yes, it refers generally to posed paintings of people. This is the widely known definition. But in sculpture, it refers specifically to sculpted facial likenesses. (As opposed to a sculpture of something else, like a base, an accessory, hands, etc.)

It is a term used by sculptors. It doesn't only mean paintings. And it can be used interchangeably with "head sculpt".

 

[OFGhost]

I agree with Sassafras, and I think you guys are being a bit ridiculous. I saw their criticism as very constructive, pointing out exact details and areas of improvement instead of simply saying "The likeness sucks! I'm not buying!" THAT is nonconstructive criticism. And how do you know that Sassafras doesn't have a significant amount of experience with art or even sculpting specifically? I'm not saying that they do, but we all know what assumptions can do.

My last post in this thread was along the same lines as Sassafras', and I saw it as nothing but constructive. You've got to take the opportunity to make specific suggestions when the company is so willing to work with us directly. Why would you just let that opportunity go? That seems pointless and silly to me, just telling them "it's awesome" or "it sucks" when they're actually willing to listen to our detailed criticisms and take them to heart.

 

[Thainitty]

I agree about constructive criticism not being bad but I also don't think saying it's awesome is pointless. To me they look awesome! And that's all I have to say, if some how they end up looking even more awesome then that's great too. As they are now I like them and I want them and they look awesome to me so that's why I would say that. Sometimes though too much criticism is just that, too much....

 

[cmiller99]

And how do you know that Sassafras doesn't have a significant amount of experience with art or even sculpting specifically? I'm not saying that they do, but we all know what assumptions can do.

What difference does that make anyway? As a wise man once said, why do you need sculpting experience to criticise a sculpt but no sculpting experience to praise one?

 

[nexus]

Frodo is looking better than Merry and Pippen IMO. Sam not so much. I've got to catch up on the Hobbits, MoS and the Orcs. Tauriel kind of derailed my interest for a bit, plus nothing on Gimli, Arwen or Galadriel. I do have Aragorn out for hairing and will probably send Gandalf out as well.

 

[FlyAndFight]

It's really interesting to hear the different opinions on the hobbit sculpts.

I thought Pip and Merry were fair sculpts but did not capture the character's essence, if you will. Both are too stern, in my opinion.

As for Frodo and Sam, I think while a bit on the plump side, Sam is the best of the four sculpts so far. Frodo, on the other hand, just looked way off to me. I don't see Elijah Woods in the sculpt at all. The sculpt also looks too wide, if that makes any sense. Both could benefit from some tweaking.

 

[Bucky Underbelly]

It's really interesting to hear the different opinions on the hobbit sculpts.

I thought Pip and Merry were fair sculpts but did not capture the character's essence, if you will. Both are too stern, in my opinion.

As for Frodo and Sam, I think while a bit on the plump side, Sam is the best of the four sculpts so far. Frodo, on the other hand, just looked way off to me. I don't see Elijah Woods in the sculpt at all. The sculpt also looks too wide, if that makes any sense. Both could benefit from some tweaking.

Totally agree there. (And like others have noted, I don't mean this as a complaint, I'm just trying to provide the kind of constructive feedback Asmus has specifically asked us for on a number of occasions.)

I think Frodo's features generally feel a little too ... sharp. His nose and jawline and brow just don't look soft enough. Caine's unpainted sculpt looked spot on, but something seems to have gotten lost in the painted version. Yes, it's a question of micrometers, but at this scale, that makes a difference. Maybe it's the paint that's tricking my eye.

Either way, I think tinkering with his brow would make a world of difference. Instead of having his brow furrowed, I think opening them up in a more wide-eyed, astonished expression would really do the trick.

Just my two cents, Asmus! Love the line and will keep buying as long as you're in Middle-Earth!

And yeah, Sam could stand to hit the gym a little, but otherwise I think he looks pretty good!

 

[cmiller99]

It's really interesting to hear the different opinions on the hobbit sculpts.

I thought Pip and Merry were fair sculpts but did not capture the character's essence, if you will. Both are too stern, in my opinion.

As for Frodo and Sam, I think while a bit on the plump side, Sam is the best of the four sculpts so far. Frodo, on the other hand, just looked way off to me. I don't see Elijah Woods in the sculpt at all. The sculpt also looks too wide, if that makes any sense. Both could benefit from some tweaking.

I agree with most of this except I think that Pippin's the best sculpt of the four.

 

[Asmus]

Got the latest painted version from the factory.
If this is good, it will be the final paint job for MASS production.

 

[Asmus]

 

[koolkollectibleskhai]

Frodo looks better than what was shown at nycc, but I think the likeness is still not quite right.

Sam I think looks more rotund here than at nycc! For some reason his eyes seem to have a blank stare to them.

Some tweaks to improve these would be great before final production!