Asmus Toys : Gandalf the Grey

[Alatar]

I don't think it is bad for Asmus to see that masterpiece, or for us to point it out to them. It is good for them to feel challenged. If they take it as a kind of humiliation, they are oh so wrong...!

This way we can show Asmus WHAT WE LIKE, where the horizon lies, how far away they are from it, in which direction is the envelope for them to push.
I think that this kind of custom work actually is very stimulating for the 1/6 industry: they must do their R+D as to how to get such amazing results in a more-or-less mass production environment.

m.

Well said!

 

[rjszar]

Why does mass produced anything rarely look as good as the prototype? Because you don't have top artisans doing slave labor. Mass produced doesn't use real silk and leather materials. They don't spend hours painting sculpts and rooting hairs one by one. Sorry, but you can't have it all.

 

[asgardianboy]

Exactly, you can't expect to get this quality at mass produced prices. It takes forever to do these pieces and thus prices that are $700 plus. You're pushing the WRONG envelope.

I won't answer you, because you are talking about very typical points I haven't even mentioned.
That being said, Asmus has lots of resources at their disposal that Viper don't. That, and economy of scale should allowed them to to what Viper do, for a fraction of the price. Fraction's denominator? I can't say, but it shouldn't be 1.
This Viper figure, with its accuracy and love for detail, OF COURSE is the RIGHT envelope to push.

Plus it’s not licensed. That means there is no approval process, pricing rules, etc. that can also dictate what a company can and cannot make.

I don't buy that.
Being extremely faithful to what is seen on screen will never pose a problem with the licensor.
Having to pay a licence, that IS a problem. But you are not referring to that.

Why does mass produced anything rarely look as good as the prototype? Because you don't have top artisans doing slave labor. Mass produced doesn't use real silk and leather materials. They don't spend hours painting sculpts and rooting hairs one by one. Sorry, but you can't have it all.

And yet, what I have said before still applies: licence costs aside, Asmus should be able to replicate the same process the artist did to generate the proto. In fact, it is the very artist who breaks down the making of the proto into manufacturing steps. Those steps could be replicated, partially automated where possible, and optimized for cost while maintaining quality. Already trained workers would be easily trained for any specific new tasks needed. $700 per unit would necessarily go down, should Asmus chose to use Viper's proto instead of their own. No research, no wondering around as to how to sculpt/paint/sew any of it. All that would be already done. All there would be left to do would be producing the copies.

RfC
Best,
m.

 

[superdoug]

AB, sometimes the license dictates the price point which then affects what processes/materials they can use in order to get within the price point. Not saying this agreement has one but it could. Also sometimes the actor has to agree on the likeness and that sometimes ends up getting sculpts changed. I can’t remember for which figures but I know a few years ago there was a thread on this forum that was blaming that reason for a sculpt change that left the fans with what we thought was a weaker sculpt.

Don’t get me wrong I have no problem with beautiful customs like this being shown and I wish I could own a legal version of it for a reasonable price. I just know that sometimes those agreements hamper companies. That’s why Toy Biz could never do in scale Barlogs or fellneasts but Neca could and did for the Barlog. Sometimes it also determines how much articulation things can have in order to fit into certain categories. All your points are good and may be correct but without knowing the details we won’t know for sure. Also I do not think they have a high profit margin on LOTR so it might really be cost prohibitive for the size of the run.

 

[rjszar]

This is an Asmus thread. It is for Asmus figures. Unlicensed figures are prohibited in this forum. If you don't mind throwing this in Asmus' face, at least abide by the rules of the forum. I love customs and this one in particular, but enough is enough.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I won't answer you, because you are talking about very typical points I haven't even mentioned.
That being said, Asmus has lots of resources at their disposal that Viper don't. That, and economy of scale should allowed them to to what Viper do, for a fraction of the price. Fraction's denominator? I can't say, but it shouldn't be 1.
This Viper figure, with its accuracy and love for detail, OF COURSE is the RIGHT envelope to push.

And yet, what I have said before still applies: licence costs aside, Asmus should be able to replicate the same process the artist did to generate the proto. In fact, it is the very artist who breaks down the making of the proto into manufacturing steps. Those steps could be replicated, partially automated where possible, and optimized for cost while maintaining quality. Already trained workers would be easily trained for any specific new tasks needed. $700 per unit would necessarily go down, should Asmus chose to use Viper's proto instead of their own. No research, no wondering around as to how to sculpt/paint/sew any of it. All that would be already done. All there would be left to do would be producing the copies.

 

[Lejuan]

 

[asgardianboy]

This is an Asmus thread. It is for Asmus figures. Unlicensed figures are prohibited in this forum. If you don't mind throwing this in Asmus' face, at least abide by the rules of the forum. I love customs and this one in particular, but enough is enough.

Even though I have seen unlicensed figs on this very forum lots of times, I was not fully aware they were explicitely forbidden. That is a point.

But implying that:

a) we are indulging in praising the virtues of unlicensed artisans (which sure hurt licensed ones, the only ones from which we all actually benefit), or

b) that Asmus will hate us because we admire Viper's skills and the quality of their work (especially when very few of us can afford such a price point),

is not realistic, so please calm down rjszar. We can discuss that piece of illegal art, then move on, and Asmus (or the licensor) can sue Viper's ass. Facebook is very good at disclosing confidential user data, for that matter. Sure they will manage.

View attachment 453501

It is not? Please enlighten me.
m.

 

[SwedishHeat]

It is not? Please enlighten me.

Sorry, no. That's why I responded with a meme. I don't have the time to explain to you how it works.

You can't make a bunch of incorrect assumptions and expect other people to tell you why you're wrong.

Learn through experience, that's how I did it. Buy that custom figure and send it to a factory and ask them to duplicate, you'll find out quickly how it works.

 

[rjszar]

Sorry, no. That's why I responded with a meme. I don't have the time to explain to you how it works.

You can't make a bunch of incorrect assumptions and expect other people to tell you why you're wrong.

Learn through experience, that's how I did it. Buy that custom figure and send it to a factory and ask them to duplicate, you'll find out quickly how it works.

Good post

 

[asgardianboy]

Sorry, no. That's why I responded with a meme. I don't have the time to explain to you how it works.

You can't make a bunch of incorrect assumptions and expect other people to tell you why you're wrong.

Learn through experience, that's how I did it. Buy that custom figure and send it to a factory and ask them to duplicate, you'll find out quickly how it works.

Oh. The mysterious wisdom that needs no proof at all.
BTW, asking questions, being wrong, and being corrected in a proven, reasoned way, is what forums are all about.
But hey... Wise ancient Gods don't need reason. Arguments are useless to Them, futile in their very nature. Gods issue divine memes to tell you you are hopelessly wrong.
Come on...

Good post

Good useless posts.
m.

 

[rjszar]

You know what, you're right. Asmus has to use the same factories as everyone else out there, but the workers have all decided they will do an extra special job for Asmus because they like them. They'll work extra hours for no pay to keep prices down and use techniques that they don't use for anyone else. They'll raise their own animals and crops to get the real hair, real leather and other natural fibers they need to help Asmus produce the highest quality figures in the industry at no additional cost, because they like Asmus and they want to see them dethrone top dog Hot Toys. They hold LOTR dear to their hearts and are tired of producing the same old Marvel figures, so they are happy to do this all for Asmus.

I just paid $65 for custom Neo sunglasses because Hot Toys couldn't do it right. I was happy to pay it. So were another hundred people, and dozens and dozens more were heart broken they didn't get the opportunity to pay $65 for some outrageously good sunglasses. Could Hot Toys have done the same thing? Should Hot Toys have done the same thing? I'm sure the answer to both questions is yes. Would most people have wanted to pay the extra cost even if it was only half of the $65? I dare say no. So you get cheap glasses that break after the second time you try to put them on. Sorry but you don't get something for nothing in this world.

 

[ImABarRoomHero]

Sorry, I've brought this up on a few threads and looked for an answer without any real answer. Just to make sure I haven't missed something here, does anyone know for sure if the GTG head sculpt will be sold separately? Or perhaps offer some sort of availability based on purchase of the old figure like they initially brought up when discussing the GtW sculpt reissue?

 

[Stryker2011]

They haven’t said anything, yet, one way or the other.

 

[asgardianboy]

Sorry for the late response!

Well... That is too much text for so little content.
Blow-by-blow rebuttal (again):

That tibetan lamb hair is dirty cheap, even on retail. The same applies when buying patches of real leather. And you didn't know it!!! How come? ;-p
If that stuff can be effortlessly sourced on the cheap by an individual, what could a whole company (filled with experienced experts) do? ;-)
Then there is applying that hair: process optimization, plus proper investment in equipment/training, plus economy of scale, would surely make it possible for Asmus to use that ultra-realistic tibetan lamb hair, especially if WE PUSHED THEM TO DO SO (that is assuming that tibetan lamb hair can't be applied the same way Asmus applies their plastic hair, which is not yet known).

I know nothing about those sunglasses of Neo's. Maybe HT's version was OK but you wanted more accuracy. Then paying a customizer would be the way to go. What I do know is that Hot Toys will never give a **** about customer feedback (ED209 v2.0 anybody?) partly because they will always have worshippers like you that will accept, forgive and then board-champion them, only to then pay big bucks to customizers for doing what could (and quite certainly should) have been done correctly in the first place.

Best,
m.

You know what, you're right. Asmus has to use the same factories as everyone else out there, but the workers have all decided they will do an extra special job for Asmus because they like them. They'll work extra hours for no pay to keep prices down and use techniques that they don't use for anyone else. They'll raise their own animals and crops to get the real hair, real leather and other natural fibers they need to help Asmus produce the highest quality figures in the industry at no additional cost, because they like Asmus and they want to see them dethrone top dog Hot Toys. They hold LOTR dear to their hearts and are tired of producing the same old Marvel figures, so they are happy to do this all for Asmus.

I just paid $65 for custom Neo sunglasses because Hot Toys couldn't do it right. I was happy to pay it. So were another hundred people, and dozens and dozens more were heart broken they didn't get the opportunity to pay $65 for some outrageously good sunglasses. Could Hot Toys have done the same thing? Should Hot Toys have done the same thing? I'm sure the answer to both questions is yes. Would most people have wanted to pay the extra cost even if it was only half of the $65? I dare say no. So you get cheap glasses that break after the second time you try to put them on. Sorry but you don't get something for nothing in this world.

 

[CrankbaitJon]

I agree that we need to voice our wishes to manufacturers but we got to be realistic. Asmus figures are produced in numbers no where near Hot Toys so they got to make their money somewhere. We also got to be realistic that LotR is not as popular as Marvel and StarWars at the moment. As to real leather and animal hair, I heard some countries has rules regarding importing products that contain fur/leather. There are admin work involved. I'm not saying this is the case, none of us will know. If we can get real hair and leather for Gandalf for the same price or slightly higher price, I'm good with that.

 

[rjszar]

Sorry for the late response!

Well... That is too much text for so little content.
Blow-by-blow rebuttal (again):

That tibetan lamb hair is dirty cheap, even on retail. The same applies when buying patches of real leather. And you didn't know it!!! How come? ;-p
If that stuff can be effortlessly sourced on the cheap by an individual, what could a whole company (filled with experienced experts) do? ;-)
Then there is applying that hair: process optimization, plus proper investment in equipment/training, plus economy of scale, would surely make it possible for Asmus to use that ultra-realistic tibetan lamb hair, especially if WE PUSHED THEM TO DO SO (that is assuming that tibetan lamb hair can't be applied the same way Asmus applies their plastic hair, which is not yet known).

I know nothing about those sunglasses of Neo's. Maybe HT's version was OK but you wanted more accuracy. Then paying a customizer would be the way to go. What I do know is that Hot Toys will never give a **** about customer feedback (ED209 v2.0 anybody?) partly because they will always have worshippers like you that will accept, forgive and then board-champion them, only to then pay big bucks to customizers for doing what could (and quite certainly should) have been done correctly in the first place.

Best,
m.

Please start an Asmus factory for us so we can get top quality products.

 

[stshammgod]

My window for actually wanting this rerelease is growing smaller by the minute. They better move it.

 

[asgardianboy]

Please start an Asmus factory for us so we can get top quality products.

No need to. Asmus already did. They only need our feedback (positive and negative) and our financial support (which they are already getting) to make it better.
m.

 

[ImABarRoomHero]

*EDIT* LOL, sorry for the sizing... Looks like the sculpt will be sold separately!!