Avatar: The Way of Water

[Khev]

Ha, I called that he'd introduce a "common enemy" to the mix but assumed it wouldn't happen until Avatar 4, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Not a big surprise. I think most people were hoping A2 would introduce a "bad" clan. 'Fire' is also an obvious opposite.

I wish Cameron would tell me something that grabs my attention. Like, the Alien hive lands on Pandora... or a Terminator is sent back in time to Pandora to kill Neytiri before she has her "last son".

The "bad fire people" challenging the peaceful "water people" just doesn't appeal to me, unless I was maybe 7 years old.

 

[jye4ever]

Top Jake Maverick

 

[Wor-Gar]

Jake has to take his "bird" and a crack team of "flyers" on a dangerous mission to bomb a SkyNet bunker that has been sent through time to start a war with the Na'vi.

The catch: Spider has been chosen to be Jake's 'wingman'.

Meanwhile, super intelligent aliens far beneath the Pandora sea have been watching the events of war, and have chosen to send a massive tidal wave to wipe out all life on the surface.

At the same time, the Humans, desperate to eradicate the Na'vi, have brought their most powerful weapon: an Alien Queen!

It's super Cameron... all day... all night!!!

#testosteronerocks

 

[ironwez20]

Fire Navi hm? First earth and water. Avatar is becoming more like avatar with each release.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Don't give away Cameron's "elemental" subtext.

 

[Khev]

In part 4 they'll do battle against the Na'vi who break wind.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The Windbreakers. Foul people.

 

[The Buffinator]

The Windbreakers. Foul people.

If Cameron can make windbreakers fashionable then he truly is a genius lol…

 

[Khev]

If Cameron can make windbreakers fashionable then he truly is a genius lol…

He already has, lol...

 

[Khev]

It's fascinating to step back and just take in the mindset behind the development of the ST, TGM, and now AWOW.

Cruise said that Paramount had been trying to get him to make a sequel to Top Gun since the 90's but he refused until he believed he had a concept that justified another outing. With each passing decade I scoffed at the notion of such a sequel and was even embarrassed on his behalf that he'd even consider it.

We all laughed at the seemingly ridiculous delay in making another Avatar, another sequel that no one was really asking for in the first place. But Cameron hired six writers and conducted a six month workshop with them fleshing out every single sequel until he had what he believed would be an awesome over-arching story before even thinking of shooting a single frame of new footage.

Then you've got the SW ST, continuing the story of an IP that was far more beloved than either of the two above, and immediately beginning production on TFA the second they acquired the rights despite not having a clue on how things would end up. TFA gets released and then TLJ and despite Trevorrow being fired from Episode IX and his treatment being scrapped they STILL don't delay the final installment and give it back to Abrams who scrambles to rush out a finale of a trilogy that started out rushed. Disney LFL was like the literal embodiment of Jeff Goldblum's speech in JP saying "before they even knew what they had, they patented it, they packaged it, slapped it on a plastic lunchbox and sold it."

I know that in Disney's mind they had a very successful precedent with the MCU that they were also kinda sorta making up as they went along as well but looking at the ST through the lense of TGM and Avatar it's pretty much a master class on how not to handle an established IP.

Of course many of you are already thinking "um duh Khev did you really need TGM and AWOW to figure that out," lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Disney LFL was like the literal embodiment of Jeff Goldblum's speech in JP saying "before they even knew what they had, they patented it, they packaged it, slapped it on a plastic lunchbox and sold it."

Good analogy.

No one seemed to truly care at Disney. That whiteboard of "Star Wars things" was the most ridiculous thing I had ever seen.

As to the MCU, didn't Feige et all have a clear direction for their 10-year-plan already established by the time Disney bought them? It wasn't the usual Disney idiots who got involved until after Endgame... and once again, the lack of a plan has been Phase 4's undoing.

Avatar -- Cameron has a plan. Disney just went with it. One thing about Cameron: he's a much bigger steamroller than even Disney.

I think we all see what works for Disney. It has the IPs, now it should spend its money on getting good, creative people with a definitive vision to manage them. People believe because Disney has all these imaginative IPs that it must be some magical, creative place, but I have heard quite the opposite, and the evidence above would tend to back that up.

 

[Khev]

Good analogy.

No one seemed to truly care at Disney. That whiteboard of "Star Wars things" was the most ridiculous thing I had ever seen.

Oh gosh yeah I forgot about that ridiculous white board...

As to the MCU, didn't Feige et all have a clear direction for their 10-year-plan already established by the time Disney bought them?

Possibly. Some of the comments made by the Russos (like about Feige initially rejecting their pitch to make Civil War) indicate that it must have been a pretty loose plan (if you take their word for it anyway.) Still with that being said even if the MCU didn't have a super specific roadmap KK is certainly no Feige when it comes to managing an IP.

Avatar -- Cameron has a plan. Disney just went with it. One thing about Cameron: he's a much bigger steamroller than even Disney.

I think we all see what works for Disney. It has the IPs, now it should spend its money on getting good, creative people with a definitive vision to manage them. People believe because Disney has all these imaginative IPs that it must be some magical, creative place, but I have heard quite the opposite, and the evidence above would tend to back that up.

Yeah. Andor is another example of something not being rushed. You'd think a prequel to another movie (RO) would need to come out rather quickly so as not to have the lead character's age be too distracting and yet they did just the opposite by taking a full six years to get it right.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Possibly. Some of the comments made by the Russos (like about Feige initially rejecting their pitch to make Civil War) indicate that it must have been a pretty loose plan (if you take their word for it anyway.) Still with that being said even if the MCU didn't have a super specific roadmap KK is certainly no Feige when it comes to managing an IP.

Agreed. At least they had Thanos and the infinity stones as their intended story-spine with an end goal (I think)... but yes, there was likely some in-fighting about what stories would ultimately fill the 10 years to get there.

I know most MCU fans like Civil War, but I would have been on Feige's side and said "nah". The idea of heroes fighting each other in any significant way never really appealed to me (pulling punches and all that). The Russos pulled it off in the best way possible, and it does help tell the story in a more interesting, dramatic way. But my instinct would have been that the concept is too "sand box" -- the kind of "who would win" schoolyard fantasies best served by AdultSwim.

And I almost brought up Andor as another example.

 

[choombaz]

Disney do a ton of great stuff but if it isn’t Marvel or Star Wars it gets lost in the shuffle. Like Mysterious Benedict Society, World According To Jeff Goldblum, The Bear, Abbott Elementary, Andor, The Patient, The Old Man, Pam & Tommy, Only Murders In The Building, Pistol, Strange World, Chip n Dale Rescue Rangers, Turning Red.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Of that list, I've only seen Andor.

 

[choombaz]

Of that list, I've only seen Andor.

I can highly recommend everything in that list, even the kids stuff that my kids force me to watch and I normally hate.

 

[Rotfish]

It has the IPs, now it should spend its money on getting good, creative people with a definitive vision to manage them.

Disney needs to get out of these people's way, then. Too many good ideas have been diluted, compromised or abandoned simply because they didn't fit with the "brand" Disney wanted to get across. From what I understand, Andor almost didn't happen the way we saw it, but Disney ran out of time to replace the dream team with their own "vetted" worker bees.

The Bear and Pam & Tommy are excellent, by the way. Add Prey to that list and Hulu really kicked ass last year.

 

[Khev]

AWOW opening weekend: $134,100,226
TGM opening weekend: $127,707,459

Interesting that the two biggest films of the year had smaller opening weekends (in some cases much smaller) than Multiverse of Madness, Thor Love and Thunder, and Wakanda Forever.

It's like Marvel's philosophy has become "make an awesome trailer that makes people want to see the movie opening weekend" while Cruise and Cameron's philosophy is "make an awesome movie that people will want to see over and over."

 

[Wor-Gar]

Andor almost didn't happen the way we saw it, but Disney ran out of time to replace the dream team with their own "vetted" worker bees.

The audacity of Disney to think a handful of their cookie-cutter creatives could do better than Gilroy.