BATMAN Film Universe, Post-Nolan Reboot

[Darth Zangetsu]

McDuffie was amazing. He understood ALL of these characters as well as anyone, and brought out and highlighted the best and unique qualities in each of them, with both heart and humor that is unmatched. If that kind of stuff ever made it into one of these live action DC films it would absolutely wipe the floor with everything else.

Compare his work to the **** sandwiches we get from the likes of Geoff Johns, David Goyer, etc. and the loss becomes even more magnified.

J.M. Dematties is still out there working on the fringes for DC, though. And he's pretty darn good, too. But there was only one Dwayne McDuffie. He's irreplaceable.

Yeah, he was one of the greats. But we still have Bruce Timm and Paul Dini. I believe WB/DC needs to get those guys involved(more than Nolan) in guiding their cinematic universe. Their work along with Dwayne's shaped the DCU for a whole generation.

 

[IrishJedi]

Yeah, he was one of the greats. But we still have Bruce Timm and Paul Dini. I believe WB/DC needs to get those guys involved(more than Nolan) in guiding their cinematic universe. Their work along with Dwayne's shaped the DCU for a whole generation.

Oh, there's still good talent there, to be sure. And while I believe Dini has been a bit over-rated (McDuffie ran circles around him overall), he still is really, really good.

The list of A+ DCU animated writers still around, includes:

Paul Dini
J.M. DeMatteis
Robert Goodman
Stan Berkowitz
Matt Wayne

So, yeah, all is far from lost. As long as Timm is around and keeps this stable together we'll continue to get some awesome animated movies from DC, at least. I just wish WB wouldn't thumb their noses at these guys and realize that have the best possible people to write and produce live action DCU stuff right under their own feet.

 

[batfan08]

McDuffie was amazing. He understood ALL of these characters as well as anyone, and brought out and highlighted the best and unique qualities in each of them, with both heart and humor that is unmatched. If that kind of stuff ever made it into one of these live action DC films it would absolutely wipe the floor with everything else.

Compare his work to the **** sandwiches we get from the likes of Geoff Johns, David Goyer, etc. and the loss becomes even more magnified.

J.M. Dematties is still out there working on the fringes for DC, though. And he's pretty darn good, too. But there was only one Dwayne McDuffie. He's irreplaceable.

It sucks the way DC did him. You see all of the great stories he was able to create in the DCAU, and you think we might get to see some of that in the comics, and then what? He gets stuck with Donna Troy, and I don't even remember who else. I pretty much quit reading, by that point.

 

[IrishJedi]

It sucks the way DC did him. You see all of the great stories he was able to create in the DCAU, and you think we might get to see some of that in the comics, and then what? He gets stuck with Donna Troy, and I don't even remember who else. I pretty much quit reading, by that point.

I know! He should have been sitting in Geoff Johns' seat, damn it. Yet another reason for me to resent that hack.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Oh, there's still good talent there, to be sure. And while I believe Dini has been a bit over-rated (McDuffie ran circles around him overall), he still is really, really good.

The list of A+ DCU animated writers still around, includes:

Paul Dini
J.M. DeMatteis
Robert Goodman
Stan Berkowitz
Matt Wayne

So, yeah, all is far from lost. As long as Timm is around and keeps this stable together we'll continue to get some awesome animated movies from DC, at least. I just wish WB wouldn't thumb their noses at these guys and realize that have the best possible people to write and produce live action DCU stuff right under their own feet.

I give Dini credit for his comic work, and creating Harley. But yeah, Dwayne was the better writer.

Those guys are awesome. I think GL First Flight and the WW DCAU films are criminally underated. Those guys need to be given free reign over the live action cinematic universe. They have shown themselves more than capable. They found ways to make you care about characters outside of the Trinity. I loved all the episode on Justice League with The Question. He was better written there than in any of the recent comics. They understood how to give each character room to shine.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Nice job missing the point entirely.

Sherlock Holmes = Robert Downey Jr = Iron Man
Sherlock Holmes = Benedict Cumberbatch = Batman (???)

Thus counteracting Sherlock with Sherlock.

I get your point, but Cumberbatch is still too odd looking to play handsome Bruce Wayne. I nominate Basil Rathbone.

 

[IrishJedi]

Those guys are awesome. I think GL First Flight and the WW DCAU films are criminally underated. Those guys need to be given free reign over the live action cinematic universe. They have shown themselves more than capable. They found ways to make you care about characters outside of the Trinity. I loved all the episode on Justice League with The Question. He was better written there than in any of the recent comics. They understood how to give each character room to shine.

Add to that:

Huntress
Dr. Fate
Etrigan
Red Tornado
Booster Gold
Amazo
Darkseid

God, you can go on and on. They nailed every single character from top to bottom.

And in Batman: The Brave and The Bold...

The Spectre
Phantom Stranger
Deadman
Blue Beetle
The Metal Men
Doom Patrol!
Uncle Sam and The Freedom Force

Man, these shows kicked all kinds of ***. They're actually still under-appreciated. No one has ever done DC characters better than these guys, from Superman & Batman all the way down to the likes of Booster Gold and the Elongated Man.

(BTW, JM DeMatties is currently writing the Phantom Stranger comic, which is why it's one of DC's better New 52 books).

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Add to that:

Huntress
Dr. Fate
Etrigan
Red Tornado
Booster Gold
Amazo
Darkseid

God, you can go on and on. They nailed every single character from top to bottom.

And in Batman: The Brave and The Bold...

The Spectre
Phantom Stranger
Deadman
Blue Beetle
The Metal Men
Doom Patrol!
Uncle Sam and The Freedom Force

Man, these shows kicked all kinds of ***. They're actually still under-appreciated. No one has ever done DC characters better than these guys, from Superman & Batman all the way down to the likes of Booster Gold and the Elongated Man.

(BTW, JM DeMatties is currently writing the Phantom Stranger comic, which is why it's one of DC's better New 52 books).

Loved the relationship they built between The Question and Huntress.
Booster's episode(The Greatest Story Never Told) was awesome. They were my introduction to a lot of the lesser known characters. i really loved they portrayed Amanda Waller. I loved any interaction her and Batman had together.

I haven't read the new Phantom Stranger. i may look into it now.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Dini & Timm could've pulled of a DC universe like Marvel did

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Dini & Timm could've pulled of a DC universe like Marvel did

Technically they already have, and no one has come close to replicating their success.

 

[batfan08]

Add to that:

Huntress
Dr. Fate
Etrigan
Red Tornado
Booster Gold
Amazo
Darkseid

God, you can go on and on. They nailed every single character from top to bottom.

And in Batman: The Brave and The Bold...

The Spectre
Phantom Stranger
Deadman
Blue Beetle
The Metal Men
Doom Patrol!
Uncle Sam and The Freedom Force

Man, these shows kicked all kinds of ***. They're actually still under-appreciated. No one has ever done DC characters better than these guys, from Superman & Batman all the way down to the likes of Booster Gold and the Elongated Man.

(BTW, JM DeMatties is currently writing the Phantom Stranger comic, which is why it's one of DC's better New 52 books).

One that I'm surprised you didn't mention, especially after mentioning Fate: Solomon Grundy. That **** with "Birdnose" almost made me cry.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

One that I'm surprised you didn't mention, especially after mentioning Fate: Solomon Grundy. That **** with "Birdnose" almost made me cry.

That episode was awesome! i love Aquaman in that ep. I love how much of a badass he is. Plus, who didn't love "Grundy want soul!!!!"

 

[IrishJedi]

One that I'm surprised you didn't mention, especially after mentioning Fate: Solomon Grundy. That **** with "Birdnose" almost made me cry.

Oh, definitely! There are a ton I did not list. But, like I said, they basically created the perfect, definitive version of every character on that show. There is not a single one they whiffed on.

Hawkgirl ("Birdnose") was awesome in those episodes, too. Hard not get teary-eyed with that bit between her and Grundy at the end. I also like the moment in another episode between Batman and Ace of the Royal Flush Gang (who's a little girl about to die of an aneurism).

God damn, what an amazing show. Hollywood will never match it, unless they get some of these guys to work on the movies (which they won't).

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Oh, definitely! There are a ton I did not list. But, like I said, they basically created the perfect, definitive version of every character on that show. There is not a single one they whiffed on.

Hawkgirl ("Birdnose") was awesome in those episodes, too. Hard not get teary-eyed with that bit between her and Grundy at the end. I also like the moment in another episode between Batman and Ace of the Royal Flush Gang (who's a little girl about to die of an aneurism).

God damn, what an amazing show. Hollywood will never match it, unless they get some of these guys to work on the movies (which they won't).

That I don't understand. All these screenwriters, directors and producers have to start SOMEWHERE, and the DCAU guys have paid their dues and made WB money for over 20 years.

 

[IrishJedi]

The "brain" trust at the WB film division looks down on them. It's that simple. How else can you explain the amount of hacks they've had working on the live action stuff over the past 25 years while these other amazing guys have languished in "kids cartoons"? They simply don't see that it would easily translate over to live action, because they (WB execs) don't get or understand these characters. At all.

One hope is that Jeff Robinov leaving will allow for some new blood to come in, clean house at DC and also realize the talent pool they have right there with the DCU Animated group. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[batfan08]

In all honesty, you don't even need to analyze it that much to see how much WB cares about these guys. Look no further than the way they handle the animated shows that were recently cancelled to see how much the suits at Warner value the integrity of what these guys are putting out.

 

[karamazov80]

I've assumed that they think the animated and comic audiences is too niche, and that they don't want to limit the potential film fan-base by producing something that cares about the essence of the source material. Film producers would see the less risky move producing a mediocre lowest-common-denominator action movie like Green Lantern than something that doesn't feel the need to hold the viewers hands and treats them with some respect like the Timm-verse stuff. Same with Man of Steel--produce something with lots of flash but no real heart or good humor, because that's what will appeal to the largest perceived audience. The interest in DC and associated characters as I see it is more having a brand audiences have some level of familiarity with, but producers would only be interested in keeping the most superficial components of those stories and characters in film as they pursue lukewarm, unoffensive, forgettable popcorn movies like Green Lantern and Man of Steel. That seems to be the mentality with lots of movies trying to capitalize on comics, or old TV shows, or even old movies, and I don't imagine WB execs would treat DC any differently than any other old franchise audiences have some knowledge of. That's a very different perspective than the animated guys hold obviously.

Nolan Batman was an aberration in that it really succeeded on lots of levels despite being under the purview of WB's film division, but even Nolan was a guy who was dismissive toward much of the source material. If he wasn't, I wonder if WB would have been so interested in him to begin with.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

In all honesty, you don't even need to analyze it that much to see how much WB cares about these guys. Look no further than the way they handle the animated shows that were recently cancelled to see how much the suits at Warner value the integrity of what these guys are putting out.

That's the saddest part. Young Justice, Green Lantern etc. all cancelled. For what? These guys need to be given the keys to the DCU. Just look at what they accomplished that some the comic writers couldn't:

A consistent DCU with all it's characters
Creating Harley Quinn
Creating Terry McGinnis
Revamping Mr. Freeze so that his cartoon origin became his actual origin until new 52 screwed that up.
Bravo to the DCAU guys

 

[Zen Mutiny]

That's the saddest part. Young Justice, Green Lantern etc. all cancelled. For what? These guys need to be given the keys to the DCU. Just look at what they accomplished that some the comic writers couldn't:

A consistent DCU with all it's characters
Creating Harley Quinn
Creating Terry McGinnis
Revamping Mr. Freeze so that his cartoon origin became his actual origin until new 52 screwed that up.
Bravo to the DCAU guys

Absolutely. The DCAU set the benchmark for the shared superhero universe on screen. It's a shame DC didn't realize this earlier, and transition that success to the big screen before Marvel did.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Absolutely. The DCAU set the benchmark for the shared superhero universe on screen. It's a shame DC didn't realize this earlier, and transition that success to the big screen before Marvel did.

I just looked it up, and the Batman:The Animated Series won 4 Emmys. These guys shoukd really be the ones running the show for any DC projects, animated or live action.