Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[chewblacca]

Renegade Cut | The Trouble with Man of Steel| Blip

This explains it perfectly. I understand the intent, but it's the execution that kills it for me.

 

[GasparZizou]

Well, the only thing I agree with that guy is the hamfisted love story and that it wasn't really that dark, the rest, nope.

 

[jye4ever]

Ok, I stopped watching at the shaky cam complaint part, he's showing a clip saying look at the horrible shaky cam yet it's a nearly smooth handheld shot, a tiny little bit of jerkiness was added either real time during filming or post, but it's definately NOT shaky cam!

He's obviously never seen Blair Witch Project.

Camera movement was not my problem with Hope of Depression.

 

[a-dev]

Camera movement was not my problem with Hope of Depression.

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Rorywan]

He's not really even doing this. Yes, this movie appears to be super heavily influenced by the Dark Knight Returns, but that was actually a future, alternate reality-type tale. If it had come out a few years later it would have been labeled an "Elseworlds" book.

But one thing about Snyder is that he's shown he can recreate existing comics (300, Watchmen) reasonably well. In fact, I think those films suggest that he can make OK movies in general so long as he's not one of the major creative forces behind the story. Not great, but he's OK. My sliver of optimism for this new film hinges on this expectation, and the knowledge that the writer of Argo is now involved, probably tag teaming with Affleck to push for a better film than what we saw previously.

This is the post. Agree completely.

 

[LIBBY1957DOG]

heres a couple of retro versions of the bvs trailer ,some may enjoy ,or not lol

reeve and keaton
https://youtu.be/BWAg4ViL25M
routh and clooney
https://youtu.be/EsG2t5kR3cc
animated mash up
https://youtu.be/9f35jHr1II4
lego
https://youtu.be/Y8xG99jJYRU

tried to post videos but can only post the links
anyone tell me where im going wrong lol cheers

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Camera movement was not my problem with Hope of Depression.

As a-dev posted -

 

[Rorywan]

No camera wasn't the problem.

Although I do remember a couple of audible sighs when I saw it in a theatre the first time. Two shots in particular, one wide shot near the start of the film on krypton, in the council chamber. It looked like the camera man had bumped into something, or tripped. And another with Costner.

Handheld is great, adds a level of rawness and cinematic realism/emotion to some scenes. But obvious non linear bumps in the middle of shots are not. For that they normally use an "easy-rig" which softens the handheld jolts (it's between handheld and steadicam). It keeps the life that you get from handheld but has a smoothness which isn't distracting. At the end of the day thats what it's about, you shouldn't be aware of the cameraman unless he is part of the narrative. That's the issue I've heard camera folk dissing Man Of Steel about anyway.

Sorry..i geeked out there for a moment..

 

[The Amazing Spider-Man]

For those who love Batman...

 

[RIDDICK]

The guy doesnt like Snyder s style from the get go, just listen to what he says about Watchmen or 300.
Completely biaised analysis.

Yes, he jumped on 300 for no apparent reason and it was completely out of place.
With Watchmen it's not so simple but I'll skip this debate for now.

The point is... ok, let's talk about that "shaky cam" example.
The scene is a flashback, a look into main character's memory - something very personal and important for him. It contains a conversation with his father who tries to explain his own view on the world and teach his son a life lesson. And how is it shot? From a long distance with constantly shaking and sometimes moving camera, like if we were spying on them from the field. It separates the viewer from what's happening instead of making him empathize. In other words, the way this scene was shot makes absolutely NO sense.

So, the point is... Snyder has skills but no vision.
He has knowledge but no understanding. He knows "how" but not "why".
He's only good at adapting pre-existing materials, nothing more.

 

[olbertfrog]

I think Snyder is as good as his material is.
He should stay away from the script. Just like Ridley Scott.
Both are great visualist and should stick to that.

I was OK with the handheld in MOS, save for some moments like those first shots on Krypton that Rory pointed.
Snyder was fresh up from Sucker Punch wich was probably storyboarded previz to death, he probably received notes from Nolan and studio exec
that handheld felt more real, it does but they used it a bit too much for my taste.
Since Budget was not an issue, shooting handheld even for the fx scenes was the easier route for Snyder, less prep.

I dont feel that the handheld is a problem for the Pa Kent scenes, its a memory, its not clear, hazy, still feel intimate.
But yeah since all the movie is mostly handheld maybe shoot the flashback with another style would have been better.
However i think that Snyder handheld work on MOS is pretty well done.

To this day i think Dawn of the Dead is his best camera work, handheld, steadycam, dollies, slow mo all is used and it works great.
I hope he gets back to that and not go full handheld or completely choregraphied, prevized again.

 

[chewblacca]

Snyder is a maverick! Handheld camera, and off the cuff directing choices!

 

[Rorywan]

Yes, he jumped on 300 for no apparent reason and it was completely out of place.
With Watchmen it's not so simple but I'll skip this debate for now.

The point is... ok, let's talk about that "shaky cam" example.
The scene is a flashback, a look into main character's memory - something very personal and important for him. It contains a conversation with his father who tries to explain his own view on the world and teach his son a life lesson. And how is it shot? From a long distance with constantly shaking and sometimes moving camera, like if we were spying on them from the field. It separates the viewer from what's happening instead of making him empathize and tounderstand. In other word, the way this scene was shot makes absolutely NO sense.

So, the point is... Snyder has skills but no vision.
He has knowledge but no understanding. He knows "how" but not "why".
He's only good at adapting pre-existing materials, nothing more.

Good post, as a commercials director I fully agree and commend your option as being correct.

To this day i think Dawn of the Dead is his best camera work, handheld, steadycam, dollies, slow mo all is used and it works great.
I hope he gets back to that and not go full handheld or completely choregraphied, prevized again.

Dawn Of The Dead is *Snyder's* best film. As in it is the best original creation of his. I thought it was great when I saw it first time. Flawed for sure, but very well worked out.

300 was good for what it was, well executed interpretation. I never cared for the subject matter or story but was a solid piece of work which deserved it's praise. That and Watchmen are carbon copy films though. He just used the comic books as storyboards. Even though I love Watchmen, there are some seriously cringe cheese elements to it.

I don't know about Snyder. I know him distantly through work, strange guy. Strange director. Very uneven. Even his commercials and music promos. He seems unable to judge his own work at all. He walks a delicate balance of success and complete failure. I mean what has he done which was successful? Really just 300 from a studio standpoint. That made such a bucket load of cash that the studio parked a new sports car outside his house the day after it opened. But since then it's been a downward spiral.

Batfleck will save him!!!

 

[Rorywan]

For those who love Batman...

Didn't realise how similar the bat mobile design is to Batflecks?

 

[olbertfrog]

Good post, as a commercials director I fully agree and commend your option as being correct.




Dawn Of The Dead is *Snyder's* best film. As in it is the best original creation of his. I thought it was great when I saw it first time. Flawed for sure, but very well worked out.

300 was good for what it was, well executed interpretation. I never cared for the subject matter or story but was a solid piece of work which deserved it's praise. That and Watchmen are carbon copy films though. He just used the comic books as storyboards. Even though I love Watchmen, there are some seriously cringe cheese elements to it.

I don't know about Snyder. I know him distantly through work, strange guy. Strange director. Very uneven. Even his commercials and music promos. He seems unable to judge his own work at all. He walks a delicate balance of success and complete failure. I mean what has he done which was successful? Really just 300 from a studio standpoint. That made such a bucket load of cash that the studio parked a new sports car outside his house the day after it opened. But since then it's been a downward spiral.

Batfleck will save him!!!

Dont think that his movies were such failures financially, he's still very sought after by studios because he can make movies that look twice the budgets they actually have. He does seem pretty immature from the interviews i've seen, but i collect dolls so...

I think that saying that 300 and Watchmen are carbon copy is wrong.
Robert Rodriguez did really carbon copies of Sin City wich are really ****** and lazy, but Snyder took some of the keyframes of the comics and really expended upon them.
I havent seen 300 in a while and have no real memories of the comic, but Watchmen is a beautiful adapation and directors work on its own.
Save for some slow mo moments and make the early fights so cool and choregraphied, wich diminish the impact of the final fight when Ozymandias does some real superhero ****.

 

[Rorywan]

Watchmen is frame accurate to the comic book. The music.. everything is there. The only thing they really changed is the ending.
It's beautifully adapted to film for the most part. Never liked the crazy prosthetics myself. But love the film because I love Watchmen.

Watchmen was a failure financially. CG Owls bombed as did Sucker Punch and MOS didn't make the money they wanted either.
He is studio friendly though, but I would imagine he has a lot riding on this next movie.

 

[jye4ever]

You just like it because of Hallelujah.

 

[jpuli28]

heres a couple of retro versions of the bvs trailer ,some may enjoy ,or not lol

reeve and keaton
https://youtu.be/BWAg4ViL25M
routh and clooney
https://youtu.be/EsG2t5kR3cc
animated mash up
https://youtu.be/9f35jHr1II4
lego
https://youtu.be/Y8xG99jJYRU

tried to post videos but can only post the links
anyone tell me where im going wrong lol cheers

Those were pretty entertaining, thanks.

 

[Rorywan]

You just like it because of Hallelujah.

I do, I do..
Dat ass. *waits for someone to post a pic of Nightowls arse*