Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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I'm liking the dynamics of Luthor's plan, it's driving people crazy. :lol

I thing I freaking loved about Luthor is that he absolutely did not concern himself with the "how" and "why" of what Superman and Batman did. It was like he just did the math that 1. If Lois is in peril Superman saves her and 2. If Batman wants something he gets it. The end. It's like he knew he was in a Superman movie and just decided to play by the rules. Where is Superman? Doesn't matter, just throw her off the building! And he was right! Shouldn't you leave some sort of bread crumbs or false "mistakes" to tip Batman off about the kryponite? Nope! Just go get it, guard it with maximum security and trust that he WILL overcome your defenses.

He just took the straight line between two points instead of some horribly overcomplicated process which these movies often fall victim to. I really liked that.
 
Hell yeah. :rock



On the one hand I actually liked the content of the flashbacks but I knew they eliminated any chance of my 6 year old son being able to follow the movie for quite some time. I was his age when I saw ESB in the theater and I didn't know what the **** was going on when Luke faced Vader in the cave, but that was just one moment and they immediately cut to "real" Vader on the Executor when it was done. Bruce's dreams within dreams? Yeah, forget it. :lol

However as someone who's able to follow such things I was pretty on board with them.

One of the big problems I had with the trailer was Clark's seeming continued smugness with how quickly he told Bruce "not everyone shares your opinion" in response to the claim that he could burn everything. The trailer made me think that Clark should have paused and digested that with a bit of empathy before responding and the finished film gave him that extra beat. In fact I didn't really find myself disliking Clark at all in this movie. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that Zack and Terrio "nailed" his character but I did come away thinking that his portrayal was an admirable effort.

Bruce/Batman and Wonder Woman though, I thought they were pretty much perfect. I could probably write paragraphs about how much I loved the two of them (especially Bruce!) but I'll save that for another time. I did enjoy how WW seemed to enjoy the adrenaline rush she got from actually taking blows in combat.

I will say this about Bats though because I'm sure people are weighing in on the fact that he kills. I just don't think you can really sell the fact that he wants to off Superman if he's never actually taken a life before. Pretty simple. I never read Miller's TDKR, and I'm guessing that the Batman who fought Superman there wasn't a killer, but on film I think it plays better if that's something we already know that Batman is capable of, it really gave extra gravitas to the scene where he's holding the spear above Superman's chest.

I didn't mind Luthor, I thought he played much better in the film than in the trailers, though I was the only one in the theater who laughed at a couple of his antics (like the stuffing of the jolly rancher in the guy's mouth, so random, lol.) And "Speech speech, bla bla bla, open bar, the end" really cracked me up as I'm been to enough corporate conventions and seminars to know that whenever there's a gathering and a bar, no one really does give a **** about what any big wig is saying on stage. :lol

Other little things:

1. I thought the prologue with the destruction of Metropolis was very well done and actually more intense than the actual finale of MOS.

2. I liked the synthesized score that played during the batmobile chase, I felt like I was back in Terminator 84. :D

3. Beautiful photography, much better use of the alternating aspect ratio than the irritating back and forth (sometimes from shot to shot!) that Nolan gave us in TDK and especially TDKR.

4. I was really starting to get pissed at what I saw as Lois' shoehorning into the final battle (I guess she still kind of was) but I feel like we did get adequate payoff with her last moment with Clark.

5. Superman and Doomsday's deaths did feel a little "Thorin and Azog" to me. I liked it, but I did literally think back to the end of BOTFA when it happened.

6. Kind of funny that Doomsday's creation is reminiscent of Nuclear Man in Superman IV, Lex combining his DNA with a Kryptonian (I'm assuming that is not how Doomsday was created in the comics.)

7. I did roll my eyes a bit at the gratuitous "good thing this fight is after business hours so that half the city is vacant!" type lines which were so obviously inserted due to complaints against the first film. I don't think they needed that, especially since we saw Superman doing everything he could to not only get Doomsday out of the city, but out of the Earth's atmosphere as well.

Above all I just felt that with regard to superhero films that we've been watching the kids play (Marvel) and finally the big boys showed up. And I'm saying that as a Marvel guy. There's just such a damn mystique with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman that Marvel's greatest heavy hitters (save Captain America) just can't touch. That isn't translating to "BvS was better than all Marvel films," no, I'm just saying there's an elevated mystique with DC's big guns that is almost palpable.

I absolutely loved seeing the "Trinity" in action and almost don't want a movie bogged down with Aquaman and Cyborg just because I like the big three so much. But I am SO glad that Snyder will remain at the helm because I absolutely want to see this onscreen world continue into JL 1 and 2.


Nice to see you liked it Khev.

Here's the thing. If JAWS, Jye4ever and Khev all agree on this film.. People are going to just have to accept that it is a pretty damn good movie :) :lol
 
I too had trouble with the way Bruce suddenly started calling Superman a 'friend' and saying things like ''I failed him''.

Shouldn't Superman technically be considered as much to 'blame' for Doomsday as he was for Zod? As far as Batman was concerned Superman ''brought the war'' to Earth in MOS. Similarly Doomsday wouldn't have happened if not for the Kryptonian's on Earth. So, what, he suddenly see Superman as an ally just because he personally witnesses Superman fighting Doomsday? Was it not clear that he was fighting against Zod in the events of MOS? Possible inconsistency there.

I understand the realisation that Superman has an earth mother tugging at Batman's heartstrings but I'm not sure there was enough additional things in Supes favour to sway Batman to that degree - considering how strongly he had felt before that Superman needed to die.

He saw that Superman was more then just an "Alien with godlike Powers" he saw Superman was someone with a mother and someone with love for humanity.
 
It all makes sense.....I thought it was Lois batting her eyes that made Bats turn the other cheek.....it's the whole we both have mom's named Martha.....just jumped up half a point...
 
I too had trouble with the way Bruce suddenly started calling Superman a 'friend' and saying things like ''I failed him''.

Shouldn't Superman technically be considered as much to 'blame' for Doomsday as he was for Zod? As far as Batman was concerned Superman ''brought the war'' to Earth in MOS. Similarly Doomsday wouldn't have happened if not for the Kryptonian's on Earth. So, what, he suddenly see Superman as an ally just because he personally witnesses Superman fighting Doomsday? Was it not clear that he was fighting against Zod in the events of MOS? Possible inconsistency there.

I understand the realisation that Superman has an earth mother tugging at Batman's heartstrings but I'm not sure there was enough additional things in Supes favour to sway Batman to that degree - considering how strongly he had felt before that Superman needed to die.

I think WW was a huge X factor that you might be overlooking though. Bruce's whole justification was "if he can destroy us then he must be put down, bla bla bla," and that everything "changed" 18 months ago when Superman arrived but Diana screws all that up. She's a hero of possibly equal power as Supes who has been living peacefully on Earth for at LEAST a hundred years. The world had already been changed for God knows how long and he realized that his "legacy" of nipping the metahuman threat in the bud had failed before it began. There were just too many unknowns at that point, the only absolute was that Doomsday was indeed the menace and he needed all the help he could get in putting him down.

I don't know that if Superman survived that they would have immediately gone out for beers or anything but watching Supes sacrifice himself before his eyes really clinched it for Bruce that he was a good guy worthy of respect and support, even if it was posthumously.
 
The ending though...

qrck75.jpg
 
He saw that Superman was more then just an "Alien with godlike Powers" he saw Superman was someone with a mother and someone with love for humanity.

The latter doesn't necessarily follow from the former though. Everyone has a mother and yet scumbags and terrorists...
 
I think WW was a huge X factor that you might be overlooking though. Bruce's whole justification was "if he can destroy us then he must be put down, bla bla bla," and that everything "changed" 18 months ago when Superman arrived but Diana screws all that up. She's a hero of possibly equal power as Supes who has been living peacefully on Earth for at LEAST a hundred years. The world had already been changed for God knows how long and he realized that his "legacy" of nipping the metahuman threat in the bud had failed before it began. There were just too many unknowns at that point, the only absolute was that Doomsday was indeed the menace and he needed all the help he could get in putting him down.

Hmmm, not bad, not bad.....
 
i prefer the Bats take in the animated film......I want you to know who beat you.......that's Batman (for me).....while I get the purpose of the Martha thing it stood out as quirky.
 
i prefer the Bats take in the animated film......I want you to know who beat you.......that's Batman (for me).....while I get the purpose of the Martha thing it stood out as quirky.

I liked that it gave the flashback of the Kent murder more purpose than simply rehashing his origin for the 10th time. "Martha..." I don't know, I just liked it.
 
I'm split now. I don't know whether or not wait to buy these versions of HT or wait for the JL variants.




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I too had trouble with the way Bruce suddenly started calling Superman a 'friend' and saying things like ''I failed him''.

Shouldn't Superman technically be considered as much to 'blame' for Doomsday as he was for Zod? As far as Batman was concerned Superman ''brought the war'' to Earth in MOS. Similarly Doomsday wouldn't have happened if not for the Kryptonian's on Earth. So, what, he suddenly see Superman as an ally just because he personally witnesses Superman fighting Doomsday? Was it not clear that he was fighting against Zod in the events of MOS? Possible inconsistency there.

I understand the realisation that Superman has an earth mother tugging at Batman's heartstrings but I'm not sure there was enough additional things in Supes favour to sway Batman to that degree - considering how strongly he had felt before that Superman needed to die.

Lex is the key to all that. Lex creates Doomsday and Lex cons Bats to engage and fight Supes. He eventually realizes this. He may blame Supes for what happened in MOS but he finally does come to the realization that his battle with Supes and Doomsday have a very real human (Lex) element to it all. This doesn't even take into account the Senate bombings. All of which have Lex pulling the strings. That's a lot of lives sacrificed because of Lex. The alien threat was eliminated by the end of MOS. All of the threats (and lives lost) in B vs S can be placed on the all too human Lex.
 
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I thing I freaking loved about Luthor is that he absolutely did not concern himself with the "how" and "why" of what Superman and Batman did. It was like he just did the math that 1. If Lois is in peril Superman saves her and 2. If Batman wants something he gets it. The end. It's like he knew he was in a Superman movie and just decided to play by the rules. Where is Superman? Doesn't matter, just throw her off the building! And he was right! Shouldn't you leave some sort of bread crumbs or false "mistakes" to tip Batman off about the kryponite? Nope! Just go get it, guard it with maximum security and trust that he WILL overcome your defenses.

He just took the straight line between two points instead of some horribly overcomplicated process which these movies often fall victim to. I really liked that.

Regardless what problems this movie might have it is my favorite villain plot of ANY superhero cbm, hands down!

Pee scene alone makes it great, then when you add his manipulation it's a WIN for me!

Nice to see you liked it Khev.

Here's the thing. If JAWS, Jye4ever and Khev all agree on this film.. People are going to just have to accept that it is a pretty damn good movie :) :lol

It's the end of the world as we know it. :lol
 
I don't know whether or not wait to buy these versions of HT or wait for the JL variants.

I guess Batman & Superman's outfits won't change that much between movies. (see MoS, BvS Superman's Suit) I'll go for the trinity now. Aquaman, Cyborg & The Flash can be added later on. It'll split up the budget as well.
 
Regardless what problems this movie might have it is my favorite villain plot of ANY superhero cbm, hands down!

Pee scene alone makes it great, then when you add his manipulation it's a WIN for me!

Yep, and the "two Marthas" thing coming up right as Batman was about to kill Supes? How the hell could Luthor have ever anticipated that? His plan (killing Superman) was literally going to work were it not for that fluke of flukes. I love it when movies give villains that level of competence instead of just having them suddenly turn into idiots when the script demands that it's time for the heroes to win.

It's the end of the world as we know it. :lol

:lol
 
I think WW was a huge X factor that you might be overlooking though. Bruce's whole justification was "if he can destroy us then he must be put down, bla bla bla," and that everything "changed" 18 months ago when Superman arrived but Diana screws all that up. She's a hero of possibly equal power as Supes who has been living peacefully on Earth for at LEAST a hundred years. The world had already been changed for God knows how long and he realized that his "legacy" of nipping the metahuman threat in the bud had failed before it began. There were just too many unknowns at that point, the only absolute was that Doomsday was indeed the menace and he needed all the help he could get in putting him down.

I don't know that if Superman survived that they would have immediately gone out for beers or anything but watching Supes sacrifice himself before his eyes really clinched it for Bruce that he was a good guy worthy of respect and support, even if it was posthumously.

Damn khev that's a homerun right there. :yess:

Flash, AM, Cyborg......screw this...if you can't beat them...join them! :lol
 
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