Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[Wor-Gar]

But that's what Superman does.

I agree -- it doesn't make sense and can't be all things at once. Like when Superman is lifting a train for example -- and he's straining -- but then he'll move the world -- same straining. Is lifting a train as hard as moving the earth?

If he can control/effect the space around him, then he should have been able to stop Batman's kryptonite bullets... it is being suggested that just by thinking Superman can stop on a dime by affecting the space around him (like the gif shows the rocks swirling), then if that's true he should always be able to affect the space around him. He would not need to punch you -- he could think about the space around you punching you. I wish I could do that to you right now.

 

[Victοr]

Well, the reason why cars are able to turn is all due to the static friction exterted by the surface to the car. Said friction takes on the role of the centrifugal/centripetal force and gives the car its centrifugal acceleration. The way it works is that basically depending on how you "turn" you find yourself on a circle with a radius r. If you go over the Vmax, the result is the same as having no friction, meaning that you'll be going forward all the way from the point where you stopped (which is why it's so difficult taking turns in ice or when it's raining, since the friction quotient is almost non-existent). Anyway, so far, so good.

Next let's look at the way planes fly. It's all explained through fluid mechanics, and the gist of it is that the plane is able to stay above air and go either up or down, due to the shape of the wings, the angle they create with the horizontal and all that jazz. All that is a result of the differences in pressure that the air exerts to the plane, which result in two forces, one horizontal and one vertical/perpendicular to the horizontal. These two are treated as vectors and through their addition in the 3D-World, we get the main force of buoyancy.

Now, in a plane, at all times, three forces act: Its weight, the force the motor creates, and the afforementioned force of buoyancy in each wing. The way they turn, is because they basically change the directions of the wings, creating angles with the horizontal. And so the two afformentioned forces, the perpendicular and the vertical make the plane turn. Now, since it's in the air, you may ask, "but where's the friction?" but it's really not needed. The horizontal plays once again the role of the centripetal force, but you have to imagine the plane as a ball on a string, with the tension replacing the horizontal.*

So there's really no problem for Superman flying. Different amounts of pressure still act to him, and he can use his shoulders and arms as substitutes for wings. As for the motor power, well, planes have performed turns with neither fuel nor their extra turbine. And besides, Superman is just able to turn his body. It's no different than you being able to turn around while sitting down or something similar. I mean, even while sitting down pressure still acts on every single point of your body, it's just that it's a very minimal amount (Patm ~ 1.00 atm = 101325 Pa = 101325 N/m^2).

You can go into specifics and all that, but Superman flying ain't the most unrealistic part about him.

 

[jye4ever]

Sure nitpick Superman but ignore the vehicle physics from the Fast and the Furious series lol

 

[GasparZizou]

But that's what Superman does.

I agree -- it doesn't make sense and can't be all things at once. Like when Superman is lifting a train for example -- and he's straining -- but then he'll move the world -- same straining. Is lifting a train as hard as moving the earth?

If he can control/effect the space around him, then he should have been able to stop Batman's kryptonite bullets... it is being suggested that just by thinking Superman can stop on a dime by affecting the space around him (like the gif shows the rocks swirling), then if that's true he should always be able to affect the space around him.

Dude, really, you're throwing everything and it's not related, starting by confusing different versions of supes.

He would not need to punch you -- he could think about the space around you punching you. I wish I could do that to you right now.

I would fade the space you're trying to bend, send it right back at your and fade you too, ****boi, $ me outside.

 

[Wor-Gar]

fluid mechanics

I get how he could gradually turn the way you suggest... but how does Superman stop in midair, then bolt off in another direction?

I guess what I'm looking for is some action on his part that demonstrates that he's doing something to affect the change -- in lieu of that, one assumes he's using his mind, which then goes back to my post above.


Fast and the Furious is crazy preposterous too... it's good you brought that up. I think you all can see that is silly. That's how I see Superman. Now both -- Superman and the Furious cars -- could change my opinion by putting a little effort into explaining these aerodynamic abilities in a way that seems possible.

I have not yet heard that account. Closest thing is Superman controlling the space around himself -- but where that answer may solve flying issues, it creates many other problems about his need to physically "grab" or "punch" anything.

 

[GasparZizou]

@Darth
I'm not even sure he's bound strictly by aerodynamics as he would be ultra resistant to any opposing force the planet can apply on him.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Dude, ... confusing different versions of supes.

What's the difference, Superman is Superman -- he flies in all his incarnations. What because I said train and there's no train in BvS? Like you've never seen Supes strain on something that doesn't seem like he'd really need to strain if he can lift a world? This hardly matters anyway -- I used this example as more of the inconsistency in Supes abilities -- point being I'd like things to be more consistent, and be explained better. Kostis' explanation is a start if Superman worked by fluid mechanics. I don't think he does.

 

[GasparZizou]

I get how he could gradually turn the way you suggest... but how does Superman stop in midair, then bolt off in another direction?

I gave you the answer.

I guess what I'm looking for is some action on his part that demonstrates that he's doing something to affect the change -- in lieu of that, one assumes he's using his mind, which then goes back to my post above.

He uses his mind as we use our minds to blink or to speak.

Not telekinesis.

Fast and the Furious is crazy preposterous too... it's good you brought that up. I think you all can see that is silly. That's how I see Superman.

With no good reason except lack of understanding.

both -- Superman and the Furious cars -- could change my opinion by putting a little effort into explaining these aerodynamic abilities in a way that seems possible.

I have not yet heard that account. Closest thing is Superman controlling the space around himself -- but where that answer may solve flying issues, it creates many other problems about his need to physically "grab" or "punch" anything.

It really doesn't thq punch and grab has nothing to do with it, manipulating gravitons doens't = manipulating space.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I gave you the answer.

With no good reason except lack of understanding.

It really doesn't thq punch and grab has nothing to do with it, manipulating gravitons doens't = manipulating space.

Clearly you've answered this all before so I must just be dense.

OK, explain it to me again: How does Superman, flying like a bullet, suddenly stop, turn and dart equally as fast in the other direction? Go.

 

[chewblacca]

Sure nitpick Superman but ignore the vehicle physics from the Fast and the Furious series lol

What about the spaceships in Star Wars? Those things zig zag around space with engines that should only be able to move them in one direction.

 

[Wor-Gar]

What about the spaceships in Star Wars? Those things zig zag around space with engines that should only be able to move them in one direction.

One idiocy at a time, please.

 

[GasparZizou]

What's the difference, Superman is Superman -- he flies in all his incarnations. What because I said train and there's no train in BvS? Like you've never seen Supes strain on something that doesn't seem like he'd really need to strain if he can lift a world? This hardly matters anyway -- I used this example as more of the inconsistency in Supes abilities --

The only constant is flight, yes, but there aren't as many inconsistencies as you may think, there always mitigating circumstances tha make Supes struggle because most writers can write Superman without giving him physical struggles.

Bringing attention to other alleged medium induced issues doesn't add anything to the current topic of flight.

For starters, noy all Supermen can lift thr world, only one or 2 versions can.

point being I'd like things to be more consistent, and be explained better. Kostis' explanation is a start if Superman worked by fluid mechanics. I don't think he does.

I don't think he does either, but what utility is there to have flight explained in a specific way? The only thing that matters is that CAN be explained.

 

[Victοr]

I get how he could gradually turn the way you suggest... but how does Superman stop in midair, then bolt off in another direction?

I guess what I'm looking for is some action on his part that demonstrates that he's doing something to affect the change -- in lieu of that, one assumes he's using his mind, which then goes back to my post above.

Well, let's say he stops moving in mid-air. That means that the only force exterted on him now is his weight. If he's still levitating/hasn't started falling down, that means that yet another force, equal to his weight, is acting upon him, which we can again attribute to the pressure and whatnot. As for how he moves forward and takes flight, well, we can assume that the friction quotient of the air, small as it is, is enough for Superman to be able to walk/run, and due to Bernouli's law achieve flight the way planes do.

I mean, even when we're walking, we ourselves have to extert a force to the ground, so that we pass the friction threshold and start moving. And this force comes from our muscles and tendons. Same with Superman.

@Darth
I'm not even sure he's bound strictly by aerodynamics as he would be ultra resistant to any opposing force the planet can apply on him.

Well, one easy way to get past that is assume that he can manipulate his density, and in turn his mass. But even if he's not affected like us, he is bound to be affected some way. I mean, he is still a "real" person, so he has a volume that he must maintain, so it has to be his mass that changes.

Either way, Superman's flying can be rationalized, but don't expect a 100% match. Using fluid mechanics and Newton's Laws you get a good enough explaination and that's enough for me.

 

[GasparZizou]

Clearly you've answered this all before so I must just be dense.

OK, explain it to me again: How does Superman, flying like a bullet, suddenly stop, turn and dart equally as fast in the other direction? Go.

I just did, jesus.

It's also implied in Darth's long answer.

If he has the ability to exert an initial force to start moving in mid air, aerodynamics or not, it's oxymoronic to think he doesn't have the ability to exert the same force he used to start moving, in ANY other direction.

Hell, you don't need physics to explain it, it's logic.

 

[jye4ever]

One idiocy at a time, please.

lolololololol

 

[jye4ever]

Don't flying insects and some birds change directions in an instant just by a flicker of a body part while manipulating the surrounding air pressures.

 

[GasparZizou]

Don't flying insects and some birds change directions in an instant just by a flicker of a body part while manipulating the surrounding air pressures.

Stop Jye, too much, I'm not a scientist.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Don't flying insects and some birds change directions in an instant just by a flicker of a body part while manipulating the surrounding air pressures.

Hummingbirds can

 

[chewblacca]

So by using the inertia of the body moving Superman easily defies the laws of gravity in a way that makes the air around him malleable and forces gravity to be beholden to his will. This is not in defense of Newtons laws of gravity but indifferent to it that the incongruity of Superman's ability to fly. This is why the ground moved before he flew in MOS and why he rockets across the sky in such a manner that the air booms. Am I making any sense?

 

[RIDDICK]