Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Yeah, screw his parents murder, especially a father with very deep connections to helping Gotham, screw them, I'm going to Italy.

What about his parents' murder? The dude who did it is dead as a door nail. In my eyes, any sort of vengeance or justice, or whatever you want to call it, was meted out in spades that day at the courthouse. Also, who's to say he didn't help Gotham the way that his father did (economically), while Blake handled the more extreme aspects? Alfred controlled the money, did he not? Actually, with that in mind, he probably was helping Gotham, economically, by faking his death and leaving Fox in charge of Wayne Enterprises. After all, the last time the dude took an interest in his company, he almost buried it with his alternative energy project.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Because Fox did such a great job of running it while Bruce was playing Howard Hughes up in his room for years.

He wasn't good at being Bruce and he wasn't good at being Batman (unless he lies to win ala "I killed dos ppl" and "I blew up and ded").

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Adam West Batman would have never built a bomb and let the enemy take it over, let alone sleep with the villain. Michael Keaton Batman was so paranoid that he had surveillance systems in every room, went on nightly patrols and didn't trust anyone. Comic Batman would have seen Talia's ruse the minute she started spewing Liam Neeson's ideologies.

Bale Batman had the bomb built and gave it to a random lady he barely knew. He underestimated a villain for the third time, got tricked by an Al Ghul for the second time and had his whole arsenal taken from him. He dun goofed. If it wasn't for magical leg braces, leaflets and stale crackers, he'd have failed the city. Thing is, he clearly had the precaution with the river drowning resort underneath the substation. He should have done that as soon as he got a whiff of Bane and the stock market shenanigans. That's what a real Batman would do.

See, in Begins and early on in the Dark Knight, Bruce is new to the whole Batman thing. He makes mistakes and it makes sense because it's his year one. He has that messy run in with the cops on national television in the Tumbler, he kills (or helps kill) his mentor, he underestimates the Joker and loses his not-girlfriend when he should have went for Dent. By the start of the third act in The Dark Knight though, we get the fully-realized Batman. He's on the top of his game (sonar device, "beautiful, isn't it", "it's not that simple, with the Joker it never is", the hostages and SWAT, etc." We finally have our "Dark Knight" status hero. He gets his license so to speak and all the Playstation achievement trophies.

By TDKR, that all goes to ****. He gets soft, goes into hiding (as Batman and Wayne) and let's a ****ing army build a labyrinth of evil under the city's sewers. He puts his money into a stupid macguffin device that is never used properly, he trusts everyone (Tate, Selina, Blake), he's easily tricked, he treats Bane just like he treated Joker, etc. There's no further development in the character. Instead of progressing, he regresses. We went through two movies of him learning the ropes, only to see that he didn't learn diddly squat and back in a hole again. Then instead of staying and help rebuild Gotham "brick for brick", he leaves to fulfill his gay butler's fantasy of fine Italian cafe hopping while the city struggles to find money to put into rebuilding it's bridges, infrastructure and law enforcement (not to mention all those inmates still on the loose). He was a dummy.

I can agree with the first sentiment, but that second part? Julie Newmar Catwoman? Nah, man; he totally would, if the circumstances were right. As for the second part, you gave it away with "fully realized, 'Dark Knight' level hero." This is not your typical Batman. This is Chris Nolan's Batman, and he never intended for this to be a permanent thing. For God's sake, he's standing on the balcony in TDK, telling Rachel he can't wait for Harvey to take down the mob so he can finally put this all to rest. Comic Batman wouldn't say that; he wouldn't even think that, and, yet, in one of the most revered Batman films, that was Bruce Wayne's thought process. "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy, and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I'm flesh and blood. I can be ignored; I can be destroyed, but as a symbol...as a symbol, I can be incorruptible; I can be everlasting." The fact of the matter is that Batman was nothing more than a wake-up call in these movies. It was Bruce Wayne's way of saying "rise and shine, Gothamites. It's a new day, so clean-up your ****, because I won't be able to do it forever."

The fact of the matter is that all of the signs were there from the beginning. Just because it didn't go in the direction that people imagined, I don't see why it should somehow be considered invalid.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Adam West Batman would have never built a bomb and let the enemy take it over, let alone sleep with the villain.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

All his fault. Let an organization he knew about gain control and gave them his bomb and cars. Saved the city from being blown to smithereens, didn't save it from being cut off from the world for 5 months.

Not really, if he wasn't there, they still would have destroyed the city, because The League of Shadows existence is beyond his control and precedes Batman, so although he is responsible for giving them a way to destroy Gotham in tdkr, it's irrelevant, since they were going to do so regardless of weather Bruce Wayne was there or not. So if anything, gotham was lucky Batman was there and that he gave The leauge of Shadows weapons he knew how to stop.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Because Fox did such a great job of running it while Bruce was playing Howard Hughes up in his room for years.

He wasn't good at being Bruce and he wasn't good at being Batman (unless he lies to win ala "I killed dos ppl" and "I blew up and ded").

Fox didn't have much to run. When Bruce asked about the money, Fox and Alfred pretty much said, "you sunk it into the 'Greener Gotham' initiative."

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

How is leaving a ****** move? Why should deciding to live his life be considered such a bad thing? Did he not save the city three times (that's about three times more than 99.99999% of the rest of the Gothamites would do)? Again, he never had any real reason to do anything for that city. A more well adjusted person would've said "**** this place, I'm moving; too many bad memories," but Bruce didn't. He saved the city, inspired others to try to, as well, and that's all she wrote.

Because his vow and call to justice was supposed to be for life, maybe not always as Batman, but always there.

Adam West Batman would have never built a bomb and let the enemy take it over, let alone sleep with the villain.

-Bruce didn't build a bomb.
-He didn't "let" the enemy take it over.
-He didn't know she was a villain, why so surprised that a villain is actually capable?

Bale Batman had the bomb built and gave it to a random lady he barely knew. He underestimated a villain for the third time, got tricked by an Al Ghul for the second time and had his whole arsenal taken from him. .

I think it's pretty safe to assume Talia lived her entire life under a different identity and had the credentials to back it up, so Bruce had no reason to think she was the daughter of Ra's.

By TDKR, that all goes to ****. He gets soft, goes into hiding (as Batman and Wayne) and let's a ****ing army build a labyrinth of evil under the city's sewers. He puts his money into a stupid macguffin device that is never used properly, he trusts everyone (Tate, Selina, Blake), he's easily tricked, he treats Bane just like he treated Joker, etc. There's no further development in the character. Instead of progressing, he regresses. We went through two movies of him learning the ropes, only to see that he didn't learn diddly squat and back in a hole again.

How was Batman supposed to be aware of that?

In the lapse between TDK and Rises he had no reason to be Batman, do you know that in the comics the court of owls existed in Gotham since ALWAYS and Batman never knew?

Then instead of staying and help rebuild Gotham "brick for brick", he leaves to fulfill his gay butler's fantasy of fine Italian cafe hopping while the city struggles to find money to put into rebuilding it's bridges, infrastructure and law enforcement (not to mention all those inmates still on the loose). He was a dummy.

This I agree with.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Because his vow and call to justice was supposed to be for life, maybe not always as Batman, but always there.


-Bruce didn't build a bomb.
-He didn't "let" the enemy take it over.
-He didn't know she was a villain, why so surprised that a villain is actually capable?


I think it's pretty safe to assume Talia lived her entire life under a different identity and had the credentials to back it up, so Bruce had no reason to think she was the daughter of Ra's.



How was Batman supposed to be aware of that?

In the lapse between TDK and Rises he had no reason to be Batman, do you know that in the comics the court of owls existed in Gotham since ALWAYS and Batman never knew?



This I agree with.

What vow? I never saw any adaptation of the little boy dedicating his life to crime fighting by candle light, or the "yes, father; I shall become a bat." The closest thing I could think of as a vow was what he told Alfred on the plane, and all that entailed was being "a dramatic example to shake people out of apathy."

No matter what, it seems like people can't open their minds. DiFabio's talking about what Adam West and Michael Keaton would do, you're talking about vows that were never made in this iteration of the character. He did good things. He helped people! Why do people expect more from a character that owed nothing to anyone?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

No matter what, it seems like people can't open their minds. DiFabio's talking about what Adam West and Michael Keaton would do, you're talking about vows that were never made in this iteration of the character. He did good things. He helped people! Why do people expect more from a character that owed nothing to anyone?

Keaton Batman IS directly responsible for creating the Joker and the subsequent problems

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Keaton Batman IS directly responsible for creating the Joker and the subsequent problems

I never even thought of that, but that's very true.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Almost every word that comes out of Talia's mouth to Bruce is "Liam Neesonesque".

He spent two years up in the mountains with the guy and was tricked by him with the Ducard BS. This woman took an interest in his company, pressured him into making a "clean energy device" that had potential to be a bomb . . . and helped fund it, rants about balance and saving the world, knows for sure that Pavel is "dead", should set off a few red flags. But nah, she's outside his house while it's raining and totally bangs her, then he's shocked when an Al Ghul has tricked him for a second time with another alias, all slack jawed with a knife in his gut.

In Dark Knight, Wayne didn't trust Dent and had him (and everyone) under surveillance Keaton style. By TDKR, Alfred and him are letting maids up in Wayne's room snooping around his crap, stealin' his pearls. Fox and Alfred are trying to pair him up with a suspicious ***** with a foreign accent and obsession with "bringing the world back into balance". Wayne shrugs off Bane even after Alfred googles Bane's Facebook page and sees he's part of the League of Shadows!

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

TDKR had horrible fight scenes, punches didn't even connect.

The Bat looked like The Ass.

Bane was so small and soft he could've worked for Khan on Fantasy Island yelling Da Plane Boss!

Young cop figuring out BW was Batman makes him smarter than the godamn entire Jedi Council from the PT.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Almost every word that comes out of Talia's mouth to Bruce is "Liam Neesonesque".

He spent two years up in the mountains with the guy and was tricked by him with the Ducard BS. This woman took an interest in his company, pressured him into making a "clean energy device" that had potential to be a bomb . . . and helped fund it, rants about balance and saving the world, knows for sure that Pavel is "dead", should set off a few red flags. But nah, she's outside his house while it's raining and totally bangs her, then he's shocked when an Al Ghul has tricked him for a second time with another alias, all slack jawed with a knife in his gut.

In Dark Knight, Wayne didn't trust Dent and had him (and everyone) under surveillance Keaton style. By TDKR, Alfred and him are letting maids up in Wayne's room snooping around his crap, stealin' his pearls. Fox and Alfred are trying to pair him up with a suspicious ***** with a foreign accent and obsession with "bringing the world back into balance". Wayne shrugs off Bane even after Alfred googles Bane's Facebook page and sees he's part of the League of Shadows!

I'm crying right now.

This **** is classic.

Fabio makes his points funny.

WIN.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

What vow? I never saw any adaptation of the little boy dedicating his life to crime fighting by candle light, or the "yes, father; I shall become a bat." The closest thing I could think of as a vow was what he told Alfred on the plane, and all that entailed was being "a dramatic example to shake people out of apathy."

No matter what, it seems like people can't open their minds. DiFabio's talking about what Adam West and Michael Keaton would do, you're talking about vows that were never made in this iteration of the character. He did good things. He helped people! Why do people expect more from a character that owed nothing to anyone?

It's part of the intrinsic nature of the character, having an lifelong obsession with justice.

Batman is not a balanced person, he's got a bit of crazy in him, a "normal" life is not one of his goals, in fact, from that point of view, it's a very shallow goal.

If Batman or Bruce wasn't needed at the end of TDKR I wouldn't think it was a douchy move.

In fact that's why I don't complain about him having an 8 year old vacation, there was no need for him, (if you don't count the orphanages and his company ) crime was pretty much abolished,....But at the end of TDKR the city was VERY chaotic and needed to be rebuilt.

Almost every word that comes out of Talia's mouth to Bruce is "Liam Neesonesque".

He spent two years up in the mountains with the guy and was tricked by him with the Ducard BS. This woman took an interest in his company, pressured him into making a "clean energy device" that had potential to be a bomb . . . and helped fund it, rants about balance and saving the world, knows for sure that Pavel is "dead", should set off a few red flags. But nah, she's outside his house while it's raining and totally bangs her, then he's shocked when an Al Ghul has tricked him for a second time with another alias, all slack jawed with a knife in his gut.

In Dark Knight, Wayne didn't trust Dent and had him (and everyone) under surveillance Keaton style. By TDKR, Alfred and him are letting maids up in Wayne's room snooping around his crap, stealin' his pearls. Fox and Alfred are trying to pair him up with a suspicious ***** with a foreign accent and obsession with "bringing the world back into balance". Wayne shrugs off Bane even after Alfred googles Bane's Facebook page and sees he's part of the League of Shadows!

Why would you assume Talia is just a random woman who popped up out of nowhere?

She obviously earned his trust and isn't it more likely that she spent years developing the clean energy project with him?

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

TDKR had horrible fight scenes, punches didn't even connect.

The Bat looked like The Ass.

Bane was so small and soft he could've worked for Khan on Fantasy Island yelling Da Plane Boss!

Young cop figuring out BW was Batman makes him smarter than the godamn entire Jedi Council from the PT.

Let's just go ahead and put this on the table, right now: finding something smarter than anything in the PT is not that difficult.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

TDKR had horrible fight scenes, punches didn't even connect.

The Bat looked like The Ass.

Bane was so small and soft he could've worked for Khan on Fantasy Island yelling Da Plane Boss!

Young cop figuring out BW was Batman makes him smarter than the godamn entire Jedi Council from the PT.

Yeah the fight scenes are awful.

The bat was nice, and also was Bane, right until before the end.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Keaton Batman IS directly responsible for creating the Joker and the subsequent problems

- foiled his Smylex scheme by cracking the code (didn't need no Lucius Fox btw)
- blew up his factory, eliminating the production of the poison
- stole his balloons
- killed him

Batman Returns, he's suspicious of Shreck and Penguin from the start. Saves millions in property damage, foils Red Triangle gang, stops Penguin from abducting kids and blowing up the city. Trolls Penguin hard with bat disk DJ skills.



The only thing he ****ed up with was his stupid batarang. It's his fault that he was framed for the woman's death and he couldn't even save her from falling to her death (he sort of just watches and is cool with it until Gordon's men shoot him in the chest). Still, at least he didn't get his Batcave jacked, help build a bomb, and let the city go into shut down for 5 months.


Saving little kids from being plunged into toxic poisons and fighting even when you lose your girl on Christmas > Giving away your home and resources to incompetent orphans and going on vacation with a girl that made him look like a dope

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

What does any of that have anything to do with Batman creating the problem? So he was incompetent.,,,so what? Talia was even worse, she wanted revenge because Bruce Killed his father, then why wait until the end to stab him? Why not cut his d*** off when they were having sex? Every character was incompetent in TDKR at some point...

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Let's just go ahead and put this on the table, right now: finding something smarter than anything in the PT is not that difficult.

Yeah, i'll give you that one.

Can I take that one back.

Yeah the fight scenes are awful.

The bat was nice, and also was Bane, right until before the end.

After watching Cap kick ass in TWS, TDKR is crap.

Then again, very few action scenes compare to that. New standard that Cap 2 set.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

You could argue that he did have his Batcave jacked and helped create a weapon that could destroy Gotham in the later movies, though. I'm pretty sure some components of that Freeze canon were manufactured by Wayne Enterprises, weren't they?