Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[thenammagazine]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

So, basically, they're not doing what Marvel did? But, then, Marvel are the only people to have done things that way; they're basically the first people to try that formula, and it worked, but it's only one formula. Everyone is so jaded that they automatically seem to think that the only thing going on at WB is Bugs Bunny sitting in a leather recliner and watching The Avengers while "$" signs flash on his eyeballs. I'm not saying that WB won't screw things up, but what I've been trying to explain for the year since this film was announced is that "different" does not equate to "wrong." These characters are our modern mythology. They've been around for 75 years and they're still going strong; the kids who bought #1's for $.10 at the newsstand are now buying their grandkids toys based on the same characters at Target for Christmas. What I'm getting at here is that these characters have been around longer than their creators could've imagined, and they'll probably be around longer than you or I will be.

The point I'm getting at is that there will be a lot more super hero movies in the coming years, decades, etc. Some will succeed and some will fail, and some will follow the Marvel formula and some won't. Marvel are pioneers for Superhero films, I'll admit to that, but how certain are we that they've literally perfected the Superhero genre? Maybe someday, some other formula will come along, perhaps, from Marvel, themselves, and make these films seen lukewarm, by comparison. For all I know, Batman vs. Superman will bomb harder than Batman and Robin; that is a distinct possibility. However, it's also a possibility that it's both criticially and commercially lauded, and it winds up making a billion and a half dollars, and leading to an even more lucrative Justice League franchise. As I said, we've got Batman and Wonder Woman in the film, and we don't know, for certain, what role the latter will play. We've not read scripts, and, basically, the only things that people are basing their perception of this film on are preconceived notions of its predecessor.

At the end of the day, if this movie is awful, I'll be the first to eat crow, because it'll probably crush my dreams for any sort of an interconnected DCU, if that's the case, but, if it succeeds, I'd hope that the naysayers would do the same, as it'd only be proving that perhaps people shouldn't be so quick to judge. The amount of negativity is staggering, when I look at the whole of the Internet landscape (SSF included), and, from what we know, we might as well be the ignorant, angry villagers chasing down Frankenstein's monster with torches and pitchforks. All I'm saying is to be a little less cynical. I know Man of Steel wasn't everyone's favorite film, but it's not like every single one of Marvel's films has reached Avengers and Iron Man levels of success.

The real sad part is, DC has had the tools, the means and the finances for years, hell, decades, to beat Marvel to the punch. We could've had Reeve and Keaton start it. Then we could've had Routh, Bale and sure he sucked in his own film, but Reynolds as GL in a JL movie. They claimed it wouldn't work. Marvel proved them wrong. Now, instead of doing things the right way (honestly who gives a flying **** who did it first so long as we get good superhero films), they're rushing it and doing a sloppy job of it. They tried to infuse Nolanistic realism into MoS which failed miserably. Now, instead of fixing it with a proper sequel, they made it a Batman movie guest starring Hopeman and are making Wonder Woman of Kryptonian ancestry to halfassedly explain her powers. As I said, what's next? Aquaman being from Kryptonians who colonized the sea? Martian Manhunter from Kryptonians who colonized Mars? Hawkman from Kryptonians who boinked birds? I don't even think The Rock's John Stewart can save it. If JL works, it'll be a ****ing miracle. Again, I point to their track record. Other than blind faith in a studio that's repeatedly failed us, all there is to go on is their track record. And in the past 14 years, aside from a couple stand alone Batman films, there's not much.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

It almost makes you want to hate BB/TDK just to be consistent.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I hope after Marvel's phase 2 period is over (Age of Ultron), the superhero film genre dies.

Not just Batman, not just Cap, not just Spider-Man, Superman or Iron Man, but all these super duper mother ****ers. It's beyond excessive at this point.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Anticipation or lack thereof is a function of expectations that are earned by the studios. Every Marvel Studios movie has been entertaining to me. None of the WB DC movies since Dark Knight has been (including Jonah Hex). That's a pretty dramatic discrepancy. Why would I be optimistic about a franchise that seems to be catering to the lowest common denominator, seems bereft of heart, humor, good sense, likable characters, and ability to tell a compelling story, and that leaves me sad and depressed every time I see another one of their films? One where they follow up their official first attempt at the franchise reboot (Man of Steel) with another film using the same creative team responsible for ruining the first film in my eyes? This fact suggests that they aren't trying to get better, they are just hoping Superman/Batman is as good as Man of Steel! That's apparently their benchmark for future success! To me, that's really not gonna cut it. It would be irrational for me personally to be hopeful in this situation.

Having said all that, I would LOVE to be proven wrong. I do love DC as much as I do Marvel. Batman is my favorite comic character. But if they keep ******** on these characters and stories, eventually I'm just gonna lose all interest altogether.

To be fair, though, that would be like me not giving Iron Man a chance since I disliked the third X-Men, Spider-Man, and The Fantastic Four movies. Granted, everything post TDK was made by WB, but I'm not sure what bearing TDK or Jonah Hex have on this film. I look at your reaction to Man of Steel, and I remember opening the entertainment section of my paper in 2010, and reading a not so stellar review of Iron Man 2. From a critical standpoint, it was a relatively disappointing film, in comparison to the first entry. Your suggesting that WB scrap everything they had prior would be the equivalent of Marvel having give up when Iron Man 2 wasn't the hit they had hoped. You didn't like Man of Steel, I get that, but the thing to remember is that a vocal grouping of likeminded individuals on a public forum do not necessarily represent the entirel audience for a film.

I seem to see the same issues arising over Man of Steel that I did with TDKR, in that it's not hated because it's bad, but, rather, because it's different from people's notions and expectations of where they wanted it to go.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

To be fair, though, that would be like me not giving Iron Man a chance since I disliked the third X-Men, Spider-Man, and The Fantastic Four movies. Granted, everything post TDK was made by WB, but I'm not sure what bearing TDK or Jonah Hex have on this film. I look at your reaction to Man of Steel, and I remember opening the entertainment section of my paper in 2010, and reading a not so stellar review of Iron Man 2. From a critical standpoint, it was a relatively disappointing film, in comparison to the first entry. Your suggesting that WB scrap everything they had prior would be the equivalent of Marvel having give up when Iron Man 2 wasn't the hit they had hoped. You didn't like Man of Steel, I get that, but the thing to remember is that a vocal grouping of likeminded individuals on a public forum do not necessarily represent the entirel audience for a film.

I seem to see the same issues arising over Man of Steel that I did with TDKR, in that it's not hated because it's bad, but, rather, because it's different from people's notions and expectations of where they wanted it to go.

You're just proving my point. Hulk was horrid. IM2 couldn't have been more vain. Thor was hampered by a claustrophobic story and mediocre budget. Cap's film was fairly slow for the first half and then we really didn't get much "Cap" before he's frozen in the ice and waking up in Times Square. Yet, because Marvel took the time to flesh out the franchise, introducing the characters in a manner that was warranted and allowed each hero to blossom individually, not just the fans, but the general public as a whole, embraced the living **** out of Avengers.

The blueprint was there for DC. There was just too much pride and the insta-crutch that is Batman.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Ahhhhh

Marvel has been at this for only 6 years.

WB has been at this what, 36 years.

If not for BB/TDK, yikes!

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

You didn't like Man of Steel, I get that, but the thing to remember is that a vocal grouping of likeminded individuals on a public forum do not necessarily represent the entirel audience for a film.

that applies to many movies.

I seem to see the same issues arising over Man of Steel that I did with TDKR, in that it's not hated because it's bad, but, rather, because it's different from people's notions and expectations of where they wanted it to go.

That imo is what happened with Hulk, people wanted and expected Hulk smashing **** for two hours. The actual movie wasn't bad but it was labelled such because it wasn't what the audience expected

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

which Hulk, Ang or TIH?

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

That imo is what happened with Hulk, people wanted and expected Hulk smashing **** for two hours. The actual movie wasn't bad but it was labelled such because it wasn't what the audience expected

Which was an inexcusable lesson they should've learned from Ang Lee's attempt. Yet, despite both failures, Hulk wound up being one of the best parts about Avengers, because they finally handled him correctly, finding a balance between Banner time and Hulk time.

 

[EVILFACE]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Both blew. Ang's a little less because of Sam Elliot.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

So, nothing is really bad and we should just be open to everything even though it might not sit right with us. Screw expectations or what we may or may not want to see, all I need to do is open my mind and take in whatever I'm a seeing on that big screen.

Everything is great!

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Both blew. Ang's a little less because of Sam Elliot.

It depends what kind of General one prefers.

Hard *** or Slimey.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

So, nothing is really bad and we should just be open to everything even though it doesn't sit right with us. Screw expectations or what we may or may not want to see, all I need to do is open my mind and take in whatever I'm a seeing on that big screen.

Everything is great!

I take it you don't sing Everything is Awesome in the shower.

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

The real sad part is, DC has had the tools, the means and the finances for years, hell, decades, to beat Marvel to the punch. We could've had Reeve and Keaton start it. Then we could've had Routh, Bale and sure he sucked in his own film, but Reynolds as GL in a JL movie. They claimed it wouldn't work. Marvel proved them wrong. Now, instead of doing things the right way (honestly who gives a flying **** who did it first so long as we get good superhero films), they're rushing it and doing a sloppy job of it. They tried to infuse Nolanistic realism into MoS which failed miserably. Now, instead of fixing it with a proper sequel, they made it a Batman movie guest starring Hopeman and are making Wonder Woman of Kryptonian ancestry to halfassedly explain her powers. As I said, what's next? Aquaman being from Kryptonians who colonized the sea? Martian Manhunter from Kryptonians who colonized Mars? Hawkman from Kryptonians who boinked birds? I don't even think The Rock's John Stewart can save it. If JL works, it'll be a ****ing miracle. Again, I point to their track record. Other than blind faith in a studio that's repeatedly failed us, all there is to go on is their track record. And in the past 14 years, aside from a couple stand alone Batman films, there's not much.

Again, though, what are you really going on? Unsubstantiated rumor. Wonder Woman as a Kryptonian was debunked, if I remember correctly, and why, exactly was Man of Steel a failure? It tripled its budget at the box office, and the majority of the reviews it received were positive. I think the thing that I'm seeing most of here is opinion being taken as objective fact. "We're here, we're vocal, and we didn't like it, which means that it sucked!" At the end of the day, I keep seeing the same old song and dance from various corners, but, to what end? So people can complain about something with no point of reference? Have you worked for WB, and seen the inner workings of their offices? The Nolan films didn't connect because they were never intended to. It's ironic that the thing you're claiming WB are doing is what you are seemingly condoning, in the past (I.e. Infringe on the artistic vision of a filmmaker with something he never intended so that you can make more money). Green Lantern, Superman Returns, TDK; how exactly do those mesh? Nolan made it pretty clear, from the get-go that his world was Batman's, and only Batman's.

As for the expectations of a "proper sequel," what exactly makes this an improper one? Is it because Batman is present in it? I don't know about you, but, as a member of the audience, when I see a couple of superpowered extraterrestrials turning a major city into ground zero, in a world where Batman exists, I'd be more surprised if he wasn't going to make himself involved sooner, rather than later. One of the largest complaints I've seen about MoS was in regards to the amount of collateral damage, and, in various outlets, I've seen Snyder consistently throwing hints that it would be addressed, so, if this much has happened upon this world's introduction of these creatures, why, exactly, would Batman wait for more of this to occur before making his presence known?

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Again, though, what are you really going on? Unsubstantiated rumor. Wonder Woman as a Kryptonian was debunked, if I remember correctly, and why, exactly was Man of Steel a failure? It tripled its budget at the box office, and the majority of the reviews it received were positive. I think the thing that I'm seeing most of here is opinion being taken as objective fact. "We're here, we're vocal, and we didn't like it, which means that it sucked!" At the end of the day, I keep seeing the same old song and dance from various corners, but, to what end? So people can complain about something with no point of reference? Have you worked for WB, and seen the inner workings of their offices? The Nolan films didn't connect because they were never intended to. It's ironic that the thing you're claiming WB are doing is what you are seemingly condoning, in the past (I.e. Infringe on the artistic vision of a filmmaker with something he never intended so that you can make more money). Green Lantern, Superman Returns, TDK; how exactly do those mesh? Nolan made it pretty clear, from the get-go that his world was Batman's, and only Batman's.

As for the expectations of a "proper sequel," what exactly makes this an improper one? Is it because Batman is present in it? I don't know about you, but, as a member of the audience, when I see a couple of superpowered extraterrestrials turning a major city into ground zero, in a world where Batman exists, I'd be more surprised if he wasn't going to make himself involved sooner, rather than later. One of the largest complaints I've seen about MoS was in regards to the amount of collateral damage, and, in various outlets, I've seen Snyder consistently throwing hints that it would be addressed, so, if this much has happened upon this world's introduction of these creatures, why, exactly, would Batman wait for more of this to occur before making his presence known?

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Again, though, what are you really going on? Unsubstantiated rumor. Wonder Woman as a Kryptonian was debunked, if I remember correctly, and why, exactly was Man of Steel a failure? It tripled its budget at the box office, and the majority of the reviews it received were positive. I think the thing that I'm seeing most of here is opinion being taken as objective fact. "We're here, we're vocal, and we didn't like it, which means that it sucked!" At the end of the day, I keep seeing the same old song and dance from various corners, but, to what end? So people can complain about something with no point of reference? Have you worked for WB, and seen the inner workings of their offices? The Nolan films didn't connect because they were never intended to. It's ironic that the thing you're claiming WB are doing is what you are seemingly condoning, in the past (I.e. Infringe on the artistic vision of a filmmaker with something he never intended so that you can make more money). Green Lantern, Superman Returns, TDK; how exactly do those mesh? Nolan made it pretty clear, from the get-go that his world was Batman's, and only Batman's.

As for the expectations of a "proper sequel," what exactly makes this an improper one? Is it because Batman is present in it? I don't know about you, but, as a member of the audience, when I see a couple of superpowered extraterrestrials turning a major city into ground zero, in a world where Batman exists, I'd be more surprised if he wasn't going to make himself involved sooner, rather than later. One of the largest complaints I've seen about MoS was in regards to the amount of collateral damage, and, in various outlets, I've seen Snyder consistently throwing hints that it would be addressed, so, if this much has happened upon this world's introduction of these creatures, why, exactly, would Batman wait for more of this to occur before making his presence known?

It was released in the press that Goyer was replaced by the Argo writer and Goyer was bumped up to ExPro. There's a reason for that. Then you look at the film being postponed a full year. That doesn't happen because everything's all unicorns and rainbows at WB.

Batman vs. Superman isn't a proper sequel. It started as a straight-up sequel to MoS. Then it was Superman vs. Batman. Now it's Batman vs. Superman. Hell, they've even stated in a press release that MoS won't get a sequel until after JL.

 

[GasparZizou]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Yay! We've reached the point where the arguments repeat cyclically again

There's not one "right" way, different =/= wrong, they're not rushing things, they obviously have a plan, no one at DC or WB claimed a shared universe wouldn't work, Marvel just had the guts to do it 1st, Nolan didn't fail nor shat on the characters, not until the very last seconds of Rises anyway, MoS didn't fail either.

I take it you don't sing Everything is Awesome in the shower.

I hope after Marvel's phase 2 period is over (Age of Ultron), the superhero film genre dies.

Not just Batman, not just Cap, not just Spider-Man, Superman or Iron Man, but all these super duper mother ****ers. It's beyond excessive at this point.

I'm beginning to feel the same way, endlessly arguing over a movie over 2 years before being released, using every feeble sourced rumor as fuel is crazy and it's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Not to mention we'll have seen it all in some form or fashion anyway.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Well, if we're getting rid of Superhero movies then the internet can just shut down as well.

WTF will there be to discuss, Bridesmaid 4 and Batman Returns HT release date. **** dat.

 

[EVILFACE]

Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

All I want is to see a full length feature movie of the DC Online trailer.