Better Call Saul

[choombaz]

I think there's some underlying cause for the extreme hate Kim has for Howard. Even Jimmy tried to call off the scheme a couple of times. I don't think Howard deserves any of this at this time and he might be the only good person on this show. That is unless something doesn't come to light this season. Personally, I don't think he survives the next episode.

The Howard storyline has been building for quite a while. That’s the great thing about Vince Gilligan, he’s all about slowly building stories so they never come out of nowhere. No, Howard doesn’t deserve what’s happening to him but he did do some really jerk things to both Kim and Jimmy during their tenure at HHM, Sandpiper etc and their scheme got to the point of no return and has become worse and worse (but incredibly entertaining to watch). That scene with Howard and his wife was really heartbreaking to watch and I’m curious how it will end and if it will tie into the other storylines.

 

[Prime Clone]

I'm also curious about Saul's true feelings for Chuck. Does he really hate/dismiss him at this point or is it all an act? Is he in denial about his role in his death, and letting Howard "bear the cross"?

Was the crying in the car a rare glimpse at what's left of Jimmy?

 

[choombaz]

I'm also curious about Saul's true feelings for Chuck. Does he really hate/dismiss him at this point or is it all an act? Is he in denial about his role in his death, and letting Howard "bear the cross"?

Was the crying in the car a rare glimpse at what's left of Jimmy?

I believe Jimmy is deep down a good person but he just doesn’t believe in himself, he is mostly incapable of dealing with things appropriately when they get tough, all of the stuff that was dealt him in his life, he never built the emotional resources to deal with any of it properly.

 

[Rambler]

I think there's some underlying cause for the extreme hate Kim has for Howard. Even Jimmy tried to call off the scheme a couple of times. I don't think Howard deserves any of this at this time and he might be the only good person on this show. That is unless something doesn't come to light this season. Personally, I don't think he survives the next episode.

Spoiler

not the way I thought Hamlin was going out but I was right.

 

[TheeWanderer]

After what just happened, I really wish nothing but the worst for Kim.

 

[choombaz]

I think Kim probably feels the same way about herself. What an incredible episode.

 

[R_R_X]

What a mind blowing conclusion to this arc, once again the writers manage to surprise us, the future looks incredibly dark for the rest of the season,

Spoiler

Howard didn't deserve what happened and my jaw hit the floor when Lalo killed him, I started to worry about him and Kim when I realized the episode was almost over and Lalo had planned something else, his death will deeply affect Kim because it is her fault and that's really the point, Jimmy and Kim are horrible people and their hubris and addiction to the scam is what will end up destroying their realtionship, I'm really happy we didn't end on a cliffhanger as well, seems like some of you were right and Lalo's storyline will be the endgame in the prequel timeline, I thought he was toast this episode but seems they have bigger things planned for him and I bet the two sides of the show, the cartel and the lawyer stuff will clash like we haven't seen and bleed into Breaking Bad, perhaps Lalo is still alive in the early days of Breaking Bad, it definitely explains why Saul was so scared of him coming back.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Jaw is still on the floor.

 

[R_R_X]

Jaw is still on the floor.

Same, still processing it, truly feels like this episode was the brutal catalyst for the rest of the season and Kim and Jimmy's arcs.

 

[franpincho]

I couldn't sleep, and I'm someone that goes to sleep easily. As in, no problems whatsoever.

This was incredibly upsetting. I have no words. I don't.

6 weeks is a lot.

 

[choombaz]

Spoiler

One of the great things about this episode and this bleeds into most previous episodes is that your feelings are complicated and considerable and that is one of the reasons this episode hit so hard. We all hated Howard initially because he was such a pig to Jimmy and Kim. But little by little that erodes away and it changes. One of the advantages of taking the slow burn approach you get a much greater sense of character so that when things like this happen they just hit you so much harder. It’s a testament to the strength of the writing and directing that they have the confidence to do it and to Patrick Fabian who just knocked it out of the park every episode. All of those little details at the start of this episode contribute to his arc, I loved it when Howard was almost overly friendly to the intern and explained how Chuck used to stop a can from exploding when opening.

 

[Prime Clone]

I'd been watching the series fairly casually but as soon as I saw the comments above I had to rush to watch the mid-season finale. Wow indeed.


Glad Howard's final act was to answer my questions!

Two questions: Did the Howard scheme seem to come out of nowhere? And does he really deserve all that hate?

 

[R_R_X]

Spoiler

One of the great things about this episode and this bleeds into most previous episodes is that your feelings are complicated and considerable and that is one of the reasons this episode hit so hard. We all hated Howard initially because he was such a pig to Jimmy and Kim. But little by little that erodes away and it changes. One of the advantages of taking the slow burn approach you get a much greater sense of character so that when things like this happen they just hit you so much harder. It’s a testament to the strength of the writing and directing that they have the confidence to do it and to Patrick Fabian who just knocked it out of the park every episode. All of those little details at the start of this episode contribute to his arc, I loved it when Howard was almost overly friendly to the intern and explained how Chuck used to stop a can from exploding when opening.

Agreed, Better Call Saul's methodical approach to "slow burn" storytelling always pays off and it does so by setting up every piece early on, it's a testament to the writer's attention to detail.

I'd been watching the series fairly casually but as soon as I saw the comments above I had to rush to watch the mid-season finale. Wow indeed.


Glad Howard's final act was to answer my questions!

Spoiler

Yes, howard didn't deserve any of the things they did to him, I'm happy that before his life was cut short he was able to call them out for the horrible people they are, Kim was so obssessed with this scheme that she hid the fact they were being watched 24/7 by Mike's guys because Lalo was out there from Jimmy, I imagine that if she had disclosed that info Jimmy would've been too paranoid to go through with their scheme, in the end they both got off on destroying this innocent man's reputation just to get their high, and it resulted in his death, I hope their final interaction with Howard haunts them forever, especially Kim because Lalo may have pulled the trigger but it was Kim and Jimmy who killed him.

 

[choombaz]

Agreed, Better Call Saul's methodical approach to "slow burn" storytelling always pays off and it does so by setting up every piece early one, it's a testament to the writer's attention to detail.

Spoiler

Yes, howard didn't deserve any of the things they did to him, I'm happy that before his life was cut short he was able to call them out for the horrible people they are, Kim was so obssessed with this scheme that she hid the fact they were being watched 24/7 by Mike's guys because Lalo was out there from Jimmy, I imagine that if she had disclosed that info Jimmy would've been too paranoid to go through with their scheme, in the end they both got off on destroying this innocent man's reputation just to get their high, and it resulted in his death, I hope their final interaction with Howard haunts them forever, especially Kim because Lalo may have pulled the trigger but it was Kim and Jimmy who killed him.

Yes to all in fact I’m starting to think

The true villain of this show is Kim especially based on the opening flashback in last weeks episode. She has been doing this her entire life and finally her actions now have real consequences. Just seemed to genuinely want her to not bike back and go about her job. She was relishing helping with the photos (amazing plan btw). She is either going to die or go away a really broken person.

 

[R_R_X]

Yes to all in fact I’m starting to think

The true villain of this show is Kim especially based on the opening flashback in last weeks episode. She has been doing this her entire life and finally her actions now have real consequences. Just seemed to genuinely want her to not bike back and go about her job. She was relishing helping with the photos (amazing plan btw). She is either going to die or go away a really broken person.

Spoiler

Kim is a horrible person, this whole Howard scheme was what she wanted, there were many times when they could've just called it off because it wasn't going according to what they planned but Kim went above and beyond to ruin Howard's career and we saw the consequences, I hope she doesn't die but that she ends up with a horrible life much like "Gene" has, I'm beginning to think she might end up pulling one final scam to escape the game, one that leaves Jimmy and the audience shocked, they've already shown us the Good Quality Vaccum business card, I think Kim may disappear without a trace and take the Sandpiper settlement money with her leaving Jimmy in the dust, it leaves the door open for Jimmy to find her in Nebraska, I think killing her would be too much for Jimmy and it would be hard to believe he can become the sleazy Saul character if that were the case, I'm sure all our theories and predictions are wrong tho and that the writers will manage to surprise us but still leave us satisfied!

 

[Prime Clone]

So is Kim's supposed social conscience to hide her true self or to atone for her other morally questionable actions? Or is she just a conflicted, damaged individual?

 

[Prime Clone]

Spoiler

it leaves the door open for Jimmy to find her in Nebraska

I doubt they'd hide two people in the same state? Also, the "Cinnabon in Omaha" was an offhand comment by Saul that they obviously decided to go through with.

 

[choombaz]

So is Kim's supposed social conscience to hide her true self or to atone for her other morally questionable actions? Or is she just a conflicted, damaged individual?

I think it’s all of the above and more. She is an amazingly complex character and I’m still floored that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould have created so many indelible characters.

 

[RPM716]

Agreed, Better Call Saul's methodical approach to "slow burn" storytelling always pays off and it does so by setting up every piece early on, it's a testament to the writer's attention to detail.

Spoiler

Yes, howard didn't deserve any of the things they did to him, I'm happy that before his life was cut short he was able to call them out for the horrible people they are, Kim was so obssessed with this scheme that she hid the fact they were being watched 24/7 by Mike's guys because Lalo was out there from Jimmy, I imagine that if she had disclosed that info Jimmy would've been too paranoid to go through with their scheme, in the end they both got off on destroying this innocent man's reputation just to get their high, and it resulted in his death, I hope their final interaction with Howard haunts them forever, especially Kim because Lalo may have pulled the trigger but it was Kim and Jimmy who killed him.

Spoiler

This is exactly why I love the death so much. Even though he's something of an antagonist on the show, Howard isn't a "bad-guy" and I don't even know if you can really call him a bad guy either. His last speech to Jimmy and Kim is 100% correct and poignant without even being insulting or crossing a line. Jimmy and Kim ARE ****** people for the scheme and as much as they try to justify it, there's absolutely no justification for it. Had he not been killed, pretty much because of their scheme, they could have still written him off as an *******. Now that he's dead, they have not choice but to feel responsible.

 

[R_R_X]

I doubt they'd hide two people in the same state? Also, the "Cinnabon in Omaha" was an offhand comment by Saul that they obviously decided to go through with.

Spoiler

They writers have made a big deal of making sure the audience knows Kim was born and raised in nebraska and there's been several easter eggs about Kim in Gene's scenes, a famous theory is that Kim somehow ends up in Nebraska again and her and Gene will cross paths.