**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[Prime Clone]

It makes sense and works perfectly for me.
We saw Anakin struggling more and more with his fears and emotions throughout the prequels, and then he was finally pushed beyond his breaking point. Once he attacks Windu he realises he is lost and cannot go back ("what have I done"), and thus surrenders himself to the Dark Side ("I will do whatever you ask").

Exactly. And he does it hoping to save Padme, so there's an end to his means.

He's still conflicted, both then and throughout the OT (as Luke points out).

 

[Centrocal]

The main thing I objected to in the finale was the Star Destroyer turning away from the rebel ship. Vader takes his own personal ship to follow Kenobi, so there was no reason to change course. And doesn't a Star Destroyer have Tie-Fighters anyway? Made no sense.

Then later on we learn Obi wan has a hyperdrive on that escape ship the whole time. So he could have just taken Leia and got out of there instead of endangering everyone

Also when Vader lands on that planet to fight Kenobi, what is the Star Destroyer doing at that time? Are they just waiting for him to come back? They should've cut to the crew: ".....You wanna play some cards?" "Lets just enjoy the quiet."

Their entire opposition, all the force sensitive people, the genesis of the rebellion was on that ship. Its absurd that they let them go. I wanted to see where Roken took them. I was hoping they would meet up with Kal Kestis or Quinlan.

 

[Sassafras]

"what i learned is that even if you hand moses ingram a so-so, boring ass script, she can act the hell out of it, and that’s probably the most important thing in this show."

As the old saying goes: some people never learn.

Yes folks - Moses Ingram's performance is the "most important" thing in this show.

What I learned after rewatching TBOBF in desperation, is 1) the reason Obi's sets often look cheap is the money was all spent on Boba (and TBH Mando S3 whose leaked trailer I didn't watch because that would be wrong) and 2) there really is a gawd, coz we didn't get little Moses saving Grogu.

IMO Honest Trailers has the most accurate evaluation of MI's performance. For myself disappointingly for the most part she came across as someone acting without the slightest belief in what she was doing. Then again for me all the Inquisitors were a disappointment.

Still, there was Ewan. James Earl Jones. Some good moments. Wouldn't mind a Season 2 if they get a bigger budget and a better writer.

 

[a-dev]

You should maybe watch the OT - it helps in discussing it.

I don't know about just officers - what I mean is if you look at Hoth base hangar and command center, women are quite noticeably present. Hard to say whether they are soldiers or technicians or whatever (most women are wearing identical uniforms to their male counterparts) - the whole base is military obviously. Maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the personnel appear female?

Pilots in ESB appear all male. Later in ROTJ you start to see female pilots - there's maybe 3-4 I can think of off the top of my head visible in the ROTJ briefing.

But again - amidst noticeable inclusion of females on the rebel side, there are ZERO females in the Empire throughout the entire OT to the end of ROTJ. Not one female face, at any level. This proves it was an artistic choice, not due to "different times."

Exactly. I always thought it was deliberate to, y'know, make the Empire look like the bad guys. So I feel that Disney electing to diversify the Empire sorta misses the whole point of what that organization was supposed to be whether it was literally stated in the OT movies or not. The evidence was there.

 

[Asta]

As seen on Facebook...

 

[ZE_501]

Exactly. I always thought it was deliberate to, y'know, make the Empire look like the bad guys. So I feel that Disney electing to diversify the Empire sorta misses the whole point of what that organization was supposed to be whether it was literally stated in the OT movies or not. The evidence was there.

I feel like that's looking through a 2022 lens. It's not like anyone in 1977 watched Star Wars while checking 'diversity' boxes.

If anything I figure they would have modeled the Rebellion on real life revolutionaries and partisan fighters, who were more rag-tag, diverse and often desperate. You didn't see female soldiers in WWII but you did see female partisans armed to the teeth and killin' Nazis.

 

[Dave_W]

 

[darth dennis]

You forgot the near-50% female officers in Reva's Jaws 3D base.... just ten years before ANH where there are zero females.

I'm typically on the side of being ok with a little diversity in these things. Reva didn't bother me, Rey didn't bother me, although I didn't really love either character. But as I've stated before, to diversify the Empire is to give them a less ruthless and Nazi-esque look and feel. It actually is counter-intuitive to what Disney should be trying to do with that group. Highlight the evil...

Edit: I read A-Dev's post after submitting this, so I'll just alter mine to "ditto"

 

[Khev]

You should maybe watch the OT - it helps in discussing it.

I don't know about just officers - what I mean is if you look at Hoth base hangar and command center, women are quite noticeably present. Hard to say whether they are soldiers or technicians or whatever (most women are wearing identical uniforms to their male counterparts) - the whole base is military obviously. Maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the personnel appear female?

Pilots in ESB appear all male. Later in ROTJ you start to see female pilots - there's maybe 3-4 I can think of off the top of my head visible in the ROTJ briefing.

But again - amidst noticeable inclusion of females on the rebel side, there are ZERO females in the Empire throughout the entire OT to the end of ROTJ. Not one female face, at any level. This proves it was an artistic choice, not due to "different times."

Exactly. I always thought it was deliberate to, y'know, make the Empire look like the bad guys. So I feel that Disney electing to diversify the Empire sorta misses the whole point of what that organization was supposed to be whether it was literally stated in the OT movies or not. The evidence was there.

I 100% agree with both of these posts. In fact as much of an outlier as I am being an OG OT fan who still enjoys the Disney ST and D+ shows I find them inserting female Stormtroopers into the OT era Empire to be the single most jarring and off-putting thing that they have done and is a much more irritating element of OWK than Reva IMO.

Female Stormies in the FO? Sure why not, it's a mostly new organization that comes long after the Empire. But as you guys nicely said the OT presented a very definitive contrast with how the Rebellion and Empire recruited members. RO maintained this, and Solo just had that one single female officer at the Corellian checkpoint which I give a pass to because she wasn't a soldier and I just liked how they did that one scene.

But multiple female Stormtroopers on multiple planets during the OT? Nope. I won't even stoop to handwaving or "Khevsplaining" it away on any level. I consider it nothing more than an error, a literal blooper if you will that I'm basically pretending isn't a true part of the Saga.

Star Wars bloopers:

1. Forgetting to animate Vader's lightsaber as he walks toward the blast doors while the heroes escape the Death Star
2. Forgetting to animate Sebulba in the cockpit of his own Pod Racer in that one shot where he's advancing on Anakin
3. Forgetting to dub male voices for some of the Stormtroopers in OWK

Nobody justifies or tries to explain the above gaffes, they're all mistakes on the same level IMO that you just have to ignore. That's how bad I find female troopers during the OT era to be.

And all evidence suggests that it's only going to get worse going forward.

I mean good lord according to this photo Disney/LFL has so little regard for artistic integrity in the name of almighty "diversity/equity" that they have even begun to cast females to play genetic clones of a specific male bounty hunter.

 

[SwedishHeat]

And all evidence suggests that it's only going to get worse going forward.

I mean good lord according to this photo Disney/LFL has so little regard for artistic integrity in the name of almighty "diversity/equity" that they have even begun to cast females to play genetic clones of a specific male bounty hunter.

Aren't those people members of the 501st? Or are women not allowed to cosplay as troopers?

 

[Khev]

Aren't those people members of the 501st? Or are women not allowed to cosplay as troopers?

Yes that is exactly what I said, "women aren't allowed to cosplay as troopers at conventions."

Hayden is wearing his Order 66 hood. I'm pretty sure he doesn't carry that around for photo ops with fans. If that somehow is a pic from Celebration or something then obviously it doesn't apply to what I was saying about Disney/LFL's casting choices and I hope that you didn't really need that spelled out for you.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Yes that is exactly what I said, "women aren't allowed to cosplay as troopers at conventions."

Hayden is wearing his Order 66 hood. I'm pretty sure he doesn't carry that around for photo ops with fans. If that somehow is a pic from Celebration or something then obviously it doesn't apply to what I was saying about Disney/LFL's casting choices.

I'm fairly certain women are allowed to dress as troopers as members of the 501st Legion. I'm not sure where you read that they aren't. Looking at the organization's website, and from what I understand about their purpose, women are allowed, and the only requirements is that they follow the approved costuming requirements, so '**** armor' trooper is a no-go, but if a woman wants to wear the standard Stormtrooper armor, that's okay.

All that to say, if Disney is recruiting members of the 501st Legion to play extras or costumed roles in their shows, why should it matter? If the most reputable, Star Wars costuming community, which is dedicated to authenticity, allows women, why should Disney not rely on that authenticity, instead of making their own?

 

[Khev]

I'm fairly certain women are allowed to dress as troopers as members of the 501st Legion. I'm not sure where you read that they aren't. Looking at the organization's website, and from what I understand about their purpose, women are allowed, and the only requirements is that they follow the approved costuming requirements, so '**** armor' trooper is a no-go, but if a woman wants to wear the standard Stormtrooper armor, that's okay.

I literally don't care what the 501st allows or doesn't allow since it shouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on what actually appears on screen in an official SW production. If they want to let pets join their cosplaying group they can have at it as far as I'm concerned.

All that to say, if Disney is recruiting members of the 501st Legion to play extras or costumed roles in their shows, why should it matter?

It matters if they can't fit the proper aesthetic of established lore. This is a strange tangent that suggests that you have spectacularly missed the actual point I was making so let me try again:

1. Having female Stormtroopers in the OT era betrays the artistic integrity of long established lore.
2. Casting a woman to play a genetic clone of Temeura Morrison gives me the impression that Disney/LFL is only going to make things worse in that regard in the future.

Those are my points. What fans do on their own time in their basements or at conventions couldn't be more irrelevant to what I'm saying.

Now, if you're telling me that the Clones in the OWK Order 66 flashback were played by 501st cosplayers and not actual actors/stuntmen well that that's actually really cool and I'm very happy for them. Man what a dream come true that must have been for them to be charging down those halls next to Anakin Skywalker himself! But Disney/LFL shouldn't have compromised the integrity of the scene by casting people who can't pass for clones of TM. Fortunately for the scene it appears that LFL did cast people who could adequately pass as TM clones (and I'm guessing they just had the woman obscured enough so as to not dispel the illusion, which is fine by me) and they rightly used dubs of TM's actual voice. Once again, the end result is all that matters.

But putting women in OT Stormtrooper armor and recording female voices for dialogue really goes against what the OT established and what the Empire is all about.

If the most reputable, Star Wars costuming community, which is dedicated to authenticity, allows women, why should Disney not rely on that authenticity, instead of making their own?

Disney/LFL is a multibillion dollar company with sole ownership of the SW IP. They better damn well be capable of making their own screen accurate versions of anything that appears in any SW production they ever do. Letting some fans' dreams come true by giving them bit parts in SW is fun but being too lax in who they choose (especially since so many fans are middle-aged and overweight which doesn't jive with lean and mean troopers, soldiers, and Mandalorians--looking at you Favreau...) goes too far IMO.

 

[Otomofan]

Ignore this if you've seen it before....

 

[jye4ever]

I literally don't care what the 501st allows or doesn't allow since it shouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on what actually appears on screen in an official SW production. If they want to let pets join their cosplaying group they can have at it as far as I'm concerned.

It matters if they can't fit the proper aesthetic of established lore. This is a strange tangent that suggests that you have spectacularly missed the actual point I was making so let me try again:

1. Having female Stormtroopers in the OT era betrays the artistic integrity of long established lore.
2. Casting a woman to play a genetic clone of Temeura Morrison gives me the impression that Disney/LFL is only going to make things worse in that regard in the future.

Those are my points. What fans do on their own time in their basements or at conventions couldn't be more irrelevant to what I'm saying.

Now, if you're telling me that the Clones in the OWK Order 66 flashback were played by 501st cosplayers and not actual actors/stuntmen well that that's actually really cool and I'm very happy for them. Man what a dream come true that must have been for them to be charging down those halls next to Anakin Skywalker himself! But Disney/LFL shouldn't have compromised the integrity of the scene by casting people who can't pass for clones of TM. Fortunately for the scene it appears that LFL did cast people who could adequately pass as TM clones (and I'm guessing they just had the woman obscured enough so as to not dispel the illusion, which is fine by me) and they rightly used dubs of TM's actual voice. Once again, the end result is all that matters.

But putting women in OT Stormtrooper armor and recording female voices for dialogue really goes against what the OT established and what the Empire is all about.

Disney/LFL is a multibillion dollar company with sole ownership of the SW IP. They better damn well be capable of making their own screen accurate versions of anything that appears in any SW production they ever do. Letting some fans' dreams come true by giving them bit parts in SW is fun but being too lax in who they choose (especially since so many fans are middle-aged and overweight which doesn't jive with lean and mean troopers, soldiers, and Mandalorians--looking at you Favreau...) goes too far IMO.

Drops mic for khev lol

 

[ajp4mgs]

The main thing I objected to in the finale was the Star Destroyer turning away from the rebel ship. Vader takes his own personal ship to follow Kenobi, so there was no reason to change course. And doesn't a Star Destroyer have Tie-Fighters anyway? Made no sense.

Then later on we learn Obi wan has a hyperdrive on that escape ship the whole time. So he could have just taken Leia and got out of there instead of endangering everyone

Also when Vader lands on that planet to fight Kenobi, what is the Star Destroyer doing at that time? Are they just waiting for him to come back? They should've cut to the crew: ".....You wanna play some cards?" "Lets just enjoy the quiet."

Their entire opposition, all the force sensitive people, the genesis of the rebellion was on that ship. Its absurd that they let them go. I wanted to see where Roken took them. I was hoping they would meet up with Kal Kestis or Quinlan.

I think Imperial tactics being questionable at best, and outright buffoonish at worst, has been enough of a staple of SW since the OT that it's kinda required to overlook certain instances just out of objective consistency. For me, there's even a little charm to it (but only to a certain point).

From knowing that AT-ATs didn't land themselves on Hoth yet none of the ships dropping them there (or TIE bombers) were used for a much faster breach of the Echo Base shield, to giant Star Destroyers actually flying formations that allowed them to crash into each other while chasing the Falcon, to multiple examples of ineptitude at the Endor battle... I find it preferable to assume that tactical choices which seem dumb in SW might sometimes have logical underpinnings in universe that we're just not informed about on screen.

Not deploying TIE fighters is somewhat similar to how the Star Destroyer chased the Falcon after the asteroid field, knowing that TIEs had been ineffective in the earlier chase. TIE fighters might be optimal in dogfights with similarly-sized ships like X-Wings, but far less useful against the shields of larger craft. Even the relatively small Falcon had shields strong enough to hold off TIEs in all three OT films. The larger ship like a Star Destroyer *should* have the advantage (like it did against the Tantive IV in ANH) without needing to put TIEs in the line of its heavier firepower.

With all that said, I consider the Imperial idiocy displayed at the Inquisitor base in episode 4 to be an entirely different level of bad that no justifying can remedy. Those sequences required cartoonish stupidity that turns the Empire into a complete joke and undermines the collective threat they're supposed to represent.

 

[Khev]

I think Imperial tactics being questionable at best, and outright buffoonish at worst, has been enough of a staple of SW since the OT that it's kinda required to overlook certain instances just out of objective consistency. For me, there's even a little charm to it (but only to a certain point).

From knowing that AT-ATs didn't land themselves on Hoth yet none of the ships dropping them there (or TIE bombers) were used for a much faster breach of the Echo Base shield, to giant Star Destroyers actually flying formations that allowed them to crash into each other while chasing the Falcon, to multiple examples of ineptitude at the Endor battle... I find it preferable to assume that tactical choices which seem dumb in SW might sometimes have logical underpinnings in universe that we're just not informed about on screen.

Not deploying TIE fighters is somewhat similar to how the Star Destroyer chased the Falcon after the asteroid field, knowing that TIEs had been ineffective in the earlier chase. TIE fighters might be optimal in dogfights with similarly-sized ships like X-Wings, but far less useful against the shields of larger craft. Even the relatively small Falcon had shields strong enough to hold off TIEs in all three OT films. The larger ship like a Star Destroyer *should* have the advantage (like it did against the Tantive IV in ANH) without needing to put TIEs in the line of its heavier firepower.

Well said and I totally agree.

With all that said, I consider the Imperial idiocy displayed at the Inquisitor base in episode 4 to be an entirely different level of bad that no justifying can remedy. Those sequences required cartoonish stupidity that turns the Empire into a complete joke and undermines the collective threat they're supposed to represent.

You're obviously correct on how undeniably cartoony the Obi-Wan/Leia trenchcoat escape was but for me it is so silly that it has instantly become legendary (and in a good way, lol.) Now if they had pulled that crap during the final duel between Kenobi and Vader then yeah I'd be pissed but doing it in during a relatively unimportant moment of a random filler episode allows me to see it as a goofy but harmless callback to some of SW's sillier moments whether they be in other television shows (Holiday Special, Droids cartoon, etc.), the ridiculous AOTC 3PO head swap, or even in ESB the greatest film of them all like when 3PO turns and says "how typical" directly to the audience! Obviously if you explore the ramifications of just how that moment could have been possible the entire Saga collapses into Deadpool territory. But as a fun moment that elicits a chuckle from the audience that you ultimately choose to not put too much stock in allows even a fourth wall breaking outtake or Scooby Doo level disguises to be fun and harmless.

That's just me though, I won't spend any more time trying to convince anyone to accept such silliness, lol, you either forgive such moments or you don't.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well said and I totally agree.

You're obviously correct on how undeniably cartoony the Obi-Wan/Leia trenchcoat escape was but for me it is so silly that it has instantly become legendary (and in a good way, lol.) Now if they had pulled that crap during the final duel between Kenobi and Vader then yeah I'd be pissed but doing it in during a relatively unimportant moment of a random filler episode allows me to see it as a goofy but harmless callback to some of SW's sillier moments whether they be in other television shows (Holiday Special, Droids cartoon, etc.), the ridiculous AOTC 3PO head swap, or even in ESB the greatest film of them all like when 3PO turns and says "how typical" directly to the audience! Obviously if explore the ramifications of just how that moment could have been possible the entire Saga collapses into Deadpool territory. But as a fun moment that elicits a chuckle from the audience that you ultimately choose to not put too much stock in allows even a fourth wall breaking outtake or Scooby Doo level disguises to be fun and harmless.

That's just me though, I won't spend any more time trying to convince anyone to accept such silliness, lol, you either forgive such moments or you don't.

Yeah, I think it's definitely gonna vary from one viewer to another as to what level of cartoonishness is tolerable. Dozens of Imperials watching Kenobi walk off that base with the absurd trenchcoat plan and not even doing a double-take exceeds my limit for acceptable goofiness, but I'm not bothered by any other fan finding it fun and harmless.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, I think it's definitely gonna vary from one viewer to another as to what level of cartoonishness is tolerable. Dozens of Imperials watching Kenobi walk off that base with the absurd trenchcoat plan and not even doing a double-take exceeds my limit for acceptable goofiness, but I'm not bothered by any other fan finding it fun and harmless.

I saw a link to a site that posted an article detailing how "horrifying and disturbing" the trenchcoat disguise revealed the Empire to be since it showed how all the Stormtroopers in the base instinctively knew that to call attention to themselves by calling out the escapees could put them in direct contact with higher ups like Reva or Vader or whomever which often leads to such underlings suffering untimely ends. Even I was all "nah, it was just a goofy moment, accept it or reject it but don't waste any time trying to justify it in-universe."

 

[ajp4mgs]

I saw a link to a site that posted an article detailing how "horrifying and disturbing" the trenchcoat disguise revealed the Empire to be since it showed how all the Stormtroopers in the base instinctively knew that to call attention to themselves by calling out the escapees could put them in direct contact with higher ups like Reva or Vader or whomever which often leads to such underlings suffering untimely ends. Even I was all "nah, it was just a goofy moment, accept it or reject it but don't waste any time trying to justify it in-universe."

Even for justification practitioners like us, sometimes you have to know when to just let some things go.