Black Panther Wakanda Forever - November 11, 2022

[Darth Snoopy]

 

[JAWS]

Well a few days have gone by and my feelings about this film have lessened

Too long, too many dumb plot points, and boring action. Also think they picked the wrong gal to be BP.

It has some positives and it’s not offensively bad like a lot of other Marvel films and shows but nothing stands out in this movie for me.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Curious to see how this does in its 2nd weekend. I feel like it should take a solid drop. But then, is there anything to compete with it?

 

[Khev]

Curious to see how this does in its 2nd weekend. I feel like it should take a solid drop. But then, is there anything to compete with it?

Yes, relaxing at home.

lol

 

[jye4ever]

Well a few days have gone by and my feelings about this film have lessened

Too long, too many dumb plot points, and boring action. Also think they picked the wrong gal to be BP.

It has some positives and it’s not offensively bad like a lot of other Marvel films and shows but nothing stands out in this movie for me.

It’s already a distant memory for me.

 

[Alatar]

I enjoyed movie this mostly for the introduction of Namor and the Talokan civilization which was for me a very pleasant surprise for how well done and interesting it was. I really liked the Mayan and Kukulkan connection. Namor’s ankle wings even worked for me, lol. I couldn’t care less that the Atlantean mythos was different in the comics.

The continuing BP saga was fine. But tbh I have always liked the Dora Milaje (royal bodyguards) the most about that mythos. So my favorite characters are Okoye and Nakia to begin with. Even in the original BP movie. And I appreciated that these two characters got more development in WF.

I’m intrigued by the relationship between Vibranium and the heart shaped herb, the latter appearing for the Maya as well. I’m a casual watcher of the MCU, not heavy into the lore, etc. But evidently that extraterrestrial metal gives rise to a plant that confers superhuman—or maybe mutant (per X-Men mythos)—powers. And of course that will be weaponized by the governmental powers of the world. Including Wakanda and Talokan. But at least the latter have a sense of responsibility about keeping it out the hands of less noble actors on the world stage.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Well a few days have gone by and my feelings about this film have lessened

Too long, too many dumb plot points, and boring action. Also think they picked the wrong gal to be BP.

If they were going to pick a black woman from the first film, should have been Angela Bassett.

Does anyone remember Strange Days? Bassett was great in that. Extremely physical role. Sadly that role, as rumored, cost her being Storm in the X-Men series. ( IIRC, Hollywood suits said Bassett was too masculine for what they wanted out of Storm )

I mean Bassett had more reason than anyone to be pissed off. Her husband was assassinated. Her country was invaded by aliens. How many countless of her warriors died in the last two Avengers films? Then her son died. Then Dad Bod Low Rent Aquaman shows up and wrecks her country.

Lots of reasons to be completely pissed off. I've always liked Bassett, watching her kill tons of people in the Black Panther suit would have been cool.

 

[The Buffinator]

If they were going to pick a black woman from the first film, should have been Angela Bassett.

Does anyone remember Strange Days? Bassett was great in that. Extremely physical role. Sadly that role, as rumored, cost her being Storm in the X-Men series. ( IIRC, Hollywood suits said Bassett was too masculine for what they wanted out of Storm )

I mean Bassett had more reason than anyone to be pissed off. Her husband was assassinated. Her country was invaded by aliens. How many countless of her warriors died in the last two Avengers films? Then her son died. Then Dad Bod Low Rent Aquaman shows up and wrecks her country.

Lots of reasons to be completely pissed off. I've always liked Bassett, watching her kill tons of people in the Black Panther suit would have been cool.

Queen Ramonda was never going to take up the BP mantle at her age. Heck, King T'Chaka had given way to their son T'Challa, so to expect her to assume the role several years later is quite unrealistic (even in a genre where that word has little meaning lol). Plus she had already died by the time Shuri successfully synthesized the heart shaped herb. Even if she hadn't, she was a smart enough leader to realize there were several better candidates for the protector of Wakanda (Okoye, Ayo, M'Baku, Aneka, Nakia and yes, even Shuri). Angela Bassett is great, but time marches on. Strange Days was probably her last "action" role, and that was over 25 years ago!

 

[Alatar]

Queen Ramonda was never going to take up the BP mantle at her age. Heck, King T'Chaka had given way to their son T'Challa, so to expect her to assume the role several years later is quite unrealistic (even in a genre where that word has little meaning lol). Plus she had already died by the time Shuri successfully synthesized the heart shaped herb. Even if she hadn't, she was a smart enough leader to realize there were several better candidates for the protector of Wakanda (Okoye, Ayo, M'Baku, Aneka, Nakia and yes, even Shuri). Angela Bassett is great, but time marches on. Strange Days was probably her last "action" role, and that was over 25 years ago!

I may be mistaken but I think the heart shaped herb only selects the “worthy”(via user visiting its dimension and having a vision) from among those with royal blood. Sadly, this rules out Okoye and Nakia who are the obvious choices in terms of noble character and ability. Well, except for the youngest member of the royal family now, in time.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Queen Ramonda was never going to take up the BP mantle at her age. Heck, King T'Chaka had given way to their son T'Challa, so to expect her to assume the role several years later is quite unrealistic (even in a genre where that word has little meaning lol). Plus she had already died by the time Shuri successfully synthesized the heart shaped herb. Even if she hadn't, she was a smart enough leader to realize there were several better candidates for the protector of Wakanda (Okoye, Ayo, M'Baku, Aneka, Nakia and yes, even Shuri). Angela Bassett is great, but time marches on. Strange Days was probably her last "action" role, and that was over 25 years ago!

If I was forced to pick between a woman in her mid 60s, but still in incredible shape, or a girl who has the muscle mass of an 8 year old little boy, I don't know....

(I'm lying. I know. Pick the one woman in the cast who actually looks like she could beat someone to death with her bare hands)

 

[The Buffinator]

I may be mistaken but I think the heart shaped herb only selects the “worthy”(via user visiting its dimension and having a vision) from among those with royal blood. Sadly, this rules out Okoye and Nakia who are the obvious choices in terms of noble character and ability. Well, except for the youngest member of the royal family now, in time.

So you're saying someone has to be a member of the king's extended family to be Black Panther? I don't recall that ever being a stipulation. Assuming that's true though, if M'Baku had defeated T'Challa and become king in the first movie he would have had to also become BP because there was no alternative (unless he has a sibling or cousin that we've never met). Even if T'Challa had yielded he would have had to relinquish the BP title regardless of new King M'Baku's opinion on the matter because he was no longer royalty. Nah, I think the king gets to nominate anyone he deems worthy and the herb either confirms that or it doesn't. Even if the "of royal blood" qualification WAS a stipulation for all previous BP selections, once a guy becomes king he can arbitrarily change things as he sees fit (which Killmonger's brief reign aptly demonstrated).

BTW, why would Ramonda be considered any more "royal" in terms of bloodlines than Nakia? They each married kings (granted, one in secrecy) and gave birth to a Prince T'Challa. It would seem Nakia is just as qualified as Ramonda to be BP per your guidelines lol. She probably could even legitimately challenge Shuri for the throne if she desired.

 

[Sassafras]

I’m intrigued by the relationship between Vibranium and the heart shaped herb, the latter appearing for the Maya as well. I’m a casual watcher of the MCU, not heavy into the lore, etc. But evidently that extraterrestrial metal gives rise to a plant that confers superhuman—or maybe mutant (per X-Men mythos)—powers. And of course that will be weaponized by the governmental powers of the world. Including Wakanda and Talokan. But at least the latter have a sense of responsibility about keeping it out the hands of less noble actors on the world stage.

Just sayin' am mildly fed up with the rehash of "special stuff" tho I don't know the comix well enough, so maybe it goes on there too.
Super soldier serum - OK, that one's believable enough; especially with the time period with Germany/Russia/U.S. competing with each other; so maybe, yeah, eventually you'd end up with something like Hulk and Abomination and Walker.....but it's getting extreme like everyone is buying it like an energy drink or something.

Herbs - well, that was squirrely from CW, since T'challa was already BP, but then he was supposed to take the stuff again, and for me it strains credulity that you wouldn't have backup gardens all over Wakanda, or even when you burn a plant there are roots left behind etc. Besides all the super soldiers and scientists running around who could have helped/provided serum etc.

Vibranium - ok, there's more someplace else, so why not someplace else too....

IMO there needs to be more originality with all this "special stuff" because rehash just undermines original characters. So does IMO the Ironman rehash with Riri. I'm up for a meteor strike or poison gas giving special powers. Or an alien abduction where you get midichlorians.

 

[ironwez20]

Speaking of riri I’m surprised no one brought up how awful that suit looked. Like sci-fi channel level effects. Her comic suit looks ten times better than whatever they tried to do here

 

[Alatar]

So you're saying someone has to be a member of the king's extended family to be Black Panther? I don't recall that ever being a stipulation. Assuming that's true though, if M'Baku had defeated T'Challa and become king in the first movie he would have had to also become BP because there was no alternative (unless he has a sibling or cousin that we've never met). Even if T'Challa had yielded he would have had to relinquish the BP title regardless of new King M'Baku's opinion on the matter because he was no longer royalty. Nah, I think the king gets to nominate anyone he deems worthy and the herb either confirms that or it doesn't. Even if the "of royal blood" qualification WAS a stipulation for all previous BP selections, once a guy becomes king he can arbitrarily change things as he sees fit (which Killmonger's brief reign aptly demonstrated).

BTW, why would Ramonda be considered any more "royal" in terms of bloodlines than Nakia? They each married kings (granted, one in secrecy) and gave birth to a Prince T'Challa. It would seem Nakia is just as qualified as Ramonda to be BP per your guidelines lol. She probably could even legitimately challenge Shuri for the throne if she desired.

Yeah, the heart shaped herb is first introduced in Fantastic Four issue #52. If one is not of royal blood and worthy one doesn’t survive taking it.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Heart-Shaped_Herb

 

[Alatar]

Just sayin' am mildly fed up with the rehash of "special stuff" tho I don't know the comix well enough, so maybe it goes on there too.
Super soldier serum - OK, that one's believable enough; especially with the time period with Germany/Russia/U.S. competing with each other; so maybe, yeah, eventually you'd end up with something like Hulk and Abomination and Walker.....but it's getting extreme like everyone is buying it like an energy drink or something.

Herbs - well, that was squirrely from CW, since T'challa was already BP, but then he was supposed to take the stuff again, and for me it strains credulity that you wouldn't have backup gardens all over Wakanda, or even when you burn a plant there are roots left behind etc. Besides all the super soldiers and scientists running around who could have helped/provided serum etc.

Vibranium - ok, there's more someplace else, so why not someplace else too....

IMO there needs to be more originality with all this "special stuff" because rehash just undermines original characters. So does IMO the Ironman rehash with Riri. I'm up for a meteor strike or poison gas giving special powers. Or an alien abduction where you get midichlorians.

I mean it’s a fIctional fantasy adventure setting based on comic books, so I’m willing to go along for the ride with the more fantastic elements. The heart shaped herb goes back to a Fantastic Four comic from 1966.

 

[The Buffinator]

Yeah, the heart shaped herb is first introduced in Fantastic Four issue #52. If one is not of royal blood and worthy one doesn’t survive taking it.

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Heart-Shaped_Herb

That article says that the candidate needs to be of noble blood not royal blood, which makes sense. You can be noble without being part of the ruling bloodline. The comics also didn’t differentiate between the role of king/chieftain and that of Black Panther, whereas the MCU did starting with Civil War - T’Chaka was still king after relinquishing the BP mantle to T’Challa. So I guess in the end debating this detail is rather pointless lol.
On a different but related subject, I’m curious if they’ll tie the ability to “strip the BP of his powers” (before a challenge to the throne if he’s also king) with certain future characters of the mutant variety. It would appear that Wakanda already has an off switch.

 

[Wor-Gar]

IMO there needs to be more originality with all this "special stuff" because rehash just undermines original characters. So does IMO the Ironman rehash with Riri. I'm up for a meteor strike or poison gas giving special powers. Or an alien abduction where you get midichlorians.

Or... the multiverse. Otherwise known as rehash-city.

 

[Alatar]

That article says that the candidate needs to be of noble blood not royal blood, which makes sense. You can be noble without being part of the ruling bloodline. The comics also didn’t differentiate between the role of king/chieftain and that of Black Panther, whereas the MCU did starting with Civil War - T’Chaka was still king after relinquishing the BP mantle to T’Challa. So I guess in the end debating this detail is rather pointless lol.
On a different but related subject, I’m curious if they’ll tie the ability to “strip the BP of his powers” (before a challenge to the throne if he’s also king) with certain future characters of the mutant variety. It would appear that Wakanda already has an off switch.

It’s referenced as “royal blood” elsewhere.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Heart-Shaped_Herb
https://www.themarysue.com/what-is-...-and-how-does-it-work-answered-and-explained/
https://blackgirlnerds.com/wakandas-techno-organic-jungle-must-be-explored-in-black-panther-2/

 

[The Buffinator]

It’s referenced as “royal blood” elsewhere.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Heart-Shaped_Herb
https://www.themarysue.com/what-is-...-and-how-does-it-work-answered-and-explained/
https://blackgirlnerds.com/wakandas-techno-organic-jungle-must-be-explored-in-black-panther-2/

Those are hardly what I’d call official sites that have the definitive word on all things Black Panther lol. Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Alatar]

Those are hardly what I’d call official sites that have the definitive word on all things Black Panther lol. Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.

Well, the Marvel fandom wiki is well referenced actually. I’m tempted to get Fantastic Four Vol.1 #52 on Comixology because that’s the definitive source. But I’ll just say there’s reason to suspect that it’s related to the bloodline.