Black Panther Wakanda Forever - November 11, 2022

[nexus]

8.5/10. Great movie. Great performances. Great tribute. A monumental task.

 

[choombaz]

Listening to the soundtrack atm, whoah, I don’t think I appreciated it enough during the film. Brilliant stuff.

 

[jye4ever]

Listening to the soundtrack atm, whoah, I don’t think I appreciated it enough during the film. Brilliant stuff.

I do love the 2 trailer songs quite alot:

 

[choombaz]

I do love the 2 trailer songs quite alot:

The whole thing is epic, it’s the first film but more, you get these retro eighties vibes and a bit of Daft Punk and yes the songs are surprisingly great. The whole thing should not work but Ludwig is just a master at taking all these things and just … man. The percussion is extraordinary.

 

[e30ernest]

Listening to the soundtrack atm, whoah, I don’t think I appreciated it enough during the film. Brilliant stuff.

I also like how the soundtrack drops off to silence in parts of some of the fights. That really adds to the tension.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

I saw the movie twice this weekend, once with the Comic Book Club I sponsor and once with my GF & a couple of friends, I thought the movie had a lot of heart and I loved the action scenes.

 

[jye4ever]

The whole thing is epic, it’s the first film but more, you get these retro eighties vibes and a bit of Daft Punk and yes the songs are surprisingly great. The whole thing should not work but Ludwig is just a master at taking all these things and just … man. The percussion is extraordinary.

Yup that Daft stuff was also good.

 

[ironwez20]

I thought it was just ok. It didn’t wow me and I didn’t think it was moving but again I had a bad taste for this film anyway. Thought it was trying to hard to gouge tears from you at times. Namor was cool I guess. Taken out kinda silly tho.

 

[karamazov80]

I saw this over the weekend and thought it was really good. They gave T'Challa's passing the space and focus that it deserved, and the transition of Shuri into her new role was well done, portraying her as a complex, human character. But my favorite character in the film was Namor, who is completely different than how he used to be in the comics (I haven't read anything with him in it in probably 20 years), but was well acted and compelling.

The CG was a bit overdone here and there, but that's par for the course with Marvel movies.

I had some minor quibbles with the plot, such as Martin Freeman (and to a lesser extent, Riri) getting the short shrift and feeling a bit unnecessary as distinct characters, Namor killing [redacted] in a way that seemed really counterproductive, and the decision by the Wakandans to battle the Atlanteans in [redacted]. Also, France risking war the way they did was completely insane and unrealistic. . .but the emotional resonance of the film overshadowed those things. I hope Namor gets a focus in future movies. That actor was very good, and they established a tremendous character here, though of course, he needs his swanky '70s get-up next time.

 

[e30ernest]

Also, France risking war the way they did was completely insane and unrealistic

France was an odd choice for me too.

Spoiler

I am not that familiar with French politics, but that nation does not strike me as one readily set to go to war. Maybe because the US is doing the same thing? Maybe they are moving in as allies?

 

[jaztermareal]

Is this your first attempt to phrase that question?

 

[jye4ever]

Shuri looks super intimidating and powerful there I mean just look at that raw strength look at that panther like ability ready to pounce and kick ass!

I know my grandmother would not want to mess with her….unless it’s windy outside then my grandmother might stand a chance.

 

[dijinn]

I liked the first 2 Acts of the film, 3rd Act I felt they tried to do too much and it came apart for me.

I have more to say about the movie but I can’t get the spoiler tag to work for some reason so, I had to delete it.

 

[abake]

I watched a camrip. I'm here to complain about Manletmor. Nothing else grabbed me.

Spoiler

How close is MCU Namor to the actual Namor, you may ask. Well, apart from sharing the same name and some basic characteristics for branding purposes, they are entirelly different characters on virtually every level.

• Let's start off with the basics such as his name. No, it wasn't a joke. The "Namor" name is literally a shortened version of "el nino sin amor". It's something a dying priest called Kidmor when Manletmor's people were killing some Spanish for being evil to their Indigenous slaves, whom they came across when they went to the surface to bury Manletmor's mother. Why would a dying priest call a random kid that? Well, who knows! First he calls him a demon and then he calls him that. What sense does that make? The demon part I get, weird flying kid flanked by blue guys; sure. But the rest? It's nonsensical. All that matters is that we have a contrived reason to call this guy by the trademarked named. So, to make it clear, we have a grown man going around telling people "my enemies call me Namor" which is a shortened version of a phrase some dying old man called him (before Kidmor caved his skull in), which in turn means "the boy without love". Yes, it's as ridiculous as it sounds. Our big bad's "name" is "loveless". "Aaaaahhhh fear me, I am the Loveless!!!". Jesus... Oh, btw, how the Hell does that work with Namor-a? Also, he even says "Imperius Rex" at some point but in Nahuatl, which makes no sense since Imperius Rex is a Latin phrase, and he reigns over no empire, but they had to get the trademark there! So yeah, here's your totally organic reinvention of Namor bro!
• Since we've discussed the name, let's move onto the backstory. Well, Atlantis is a fictional story passed onto myth, maybe based on some resemblance of historical truth and blablabla. Some theorised that it could've been in the Atlantic Ocean, hence things like the Lost Continent Of Mu and so on. Well, do we get a MesoAmerican/Pre-Mayan styled Atlantis here? Is there a reason for the cultural swap? The answer is... NO! "No Atlantis", you might say, "how does that work?". Well True Believer, sit tight because this one will blow your mind! Get this: Instead of some version of Atlantis, some other myth concerning an underwater lost city at least, we instead get... normal Aztecs. Yeah. Manletmor's people are normal Aztecs from the 1500s who, trying to flee the Conquistadors, went tripping on some flowers based on a Shaman's vision which was sent to him by one of their gods (no, you don't actually see the god ala the Thor movies, just narration). Those flowers turned them blue and "allowed them to draw oxygen from the water" so they went underwater. And that's it. They're not an ancient civilization lost in the annals of time, they're normal humans who went tripping because of invaders and they set up shop under the water. They named the place Talocan after their myths, but it's not some literal sunk city or anything like that. Somehow they managed to whip up advanced tech under the water, because in MCUland as long as you're an isolated society you can bypass the normal pace of progress. Dunno, maybe the Vibranium flower made them smarter than baseline humans. Point is, Namor's entire backstory is gone. No princess who fell in love with a sailor, no hidden ancient mythical civilization, nothing. It's literally an entirely new origin which has 0 to do with Namor's lore. I know someone's gonna bring up the Golden Age panels reposted on Twitter where Namor is "an enemy of men" but then he'd have to talk about Namor the guy who stretched his face and eyes to "fool and infiltrate the Japanese", and nobody wants that. Comic Namor works because he's supposed to be ruling over the majority of sea life since Atlanteans were down there for thousands upon thousands of years. Manletmor's literally been sitting in his underwater city for centuries and seething. It's laughable.
• And then we get to his appearance. He doesn't look like Namor by virtue of not being a tall, muscular and handsome man, but we've known that since forever. But he still has the elfish ears and winged feet. Why? Trademarking of course! Namor has them because of the thematic connection to Hermes/Mercury and the ethereal nature of Elves (and other similar creatures such as Nymphs) as passed down into pop culture through Tolkien. They may look kinda ridiculous at first in the comics too, but at least they work. Here? They're utterly random. Manletmor calls himself a mutant because he has to (get it, the X-Men are coming!!1!!!11). The ankle wings are drawn as a parallel to that "feathered god" Ku'Kul'Kan they call him. But it's a weak analogy; that's a feathered serpent, Manletmor just has some feathers on his ankles. The ears still remain random. Point being, they dumped some "core physical traits" on him to be safe, but they don't mesh with the new origin and are just there to go "gee whiz bloody entitled hateful virgins, MCU Namor literally looks the same, down to the ankle wings". I look at the guy and nothing screams Namor.
• Finally we have the characterization itself which is... eh. He's much more mellow and basically tries to broker a peace between Talocan and Wakanda so that they can go kill evil whiteys together. Why now? Why didn't he think of that before his people were close to being discovered? What the Hell was this 400 YO geezer doing when Thanos was snapping up his people? I guess he needed 400 years to power up his seething over whitey. I liked it better when Killmonger was doing it because MBJ had charisma and looked cool. Either way, Manletmor wasn't even in the wrong on a baseline, really. He wanted to kill some randoms to protect his people but Wakanda was willing to risk a war to protect Ree-Ree. Why? No reason in-universe. So they go to war over some random kid. Great government there! Manletmor tries to convince them until Nakia kills some guards and then he goes full-on war mode. The Talocans body the Wakandans and it all ends as predictably as you'd think. ShuriPanther traps Manletmor in a jet and transports him to a place far from the sea while also frying him a bit. Manletmor impales her after a crappy fight (serious Bollywood effects there, except Bollywood is fun) and while he tries to stumble to the water, she takes out the spear, and instead of offing him, spares him. So Manletmor calls off the attack and they have an uneasy truce. But Manletmor warns them The Eternal Whitey will come again, and then they'll beg him for help. So until the next time, Manletmor's off to the dark waters of the deep. Will he return? I doubt it. This guy isn't allying with anyone like Doom (unless MCU Doom is now an exiled Wakandan creating a safe haven for BIPOCs in Antarctica or something), there's no Invaders history now, and I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to do the FF cuckoldry subplot, so there's nothing that ties him to the surface or any of the upcoming plots. Best case scenario when [World Ending Event #4645] happens, whoever the Panther is will ask him to protect the planet his people live in, and he'll get some CGI battle scenes. But I don't see him getting a suit like comics Namor or any of that sort. For the foreseeable future, this is as much Manletmor as we'll get. Feige said that they might give him a solo if he's a hit though, so who knows.

And that's it. Ridiculous really. I can't help but wonder where all those massive budgets go. The big "war" set-piece was about 30 people atop a ship. The CGI looked rubbery all around. A big part of the Talocan scenes were already shown in the clips, so don't expect a lot of fleshing out. Hell, he keeps narrating about his "people" and "tribe" and all we see are about 4 guys and 2 gals in a forest. Talocans all descent from the same 4 couples? Man, talk about some Biblical incest stuff...

The best thing I can say is that some of the Namor fight scenes looked kinda cool in a videogamey way. I liked how he moved and how ruthless he was in going in for the kill every time. And me clowning on Manletmor aside, in the scene where he tries to talk Shuri into giving him Ree-Ree, with the cape and all, he looked pretty cool. If they gave him that plus the head dress and whatnot, he'd make one nice dolly. But this isn't Namor. This is an OC on every level, wearing the name for PR and trademark reasons. They couldn't do a "white" ethnostate because those are banned (they could've easily done a MENA-based Atlantis but Hollywood doesn't care about MENAs except when they can shoehorn BIPOCs to steal all their roles), so they created an entirely different backstory and character, then slapped the name on top and added some basic cosmetic traits. He's a good enough character with a nice aesthetic and backstory, but he is not Namor in any way, shape, or form. He just isn't.

So, yeah, that's all I have to say. I didn't care for it as a movie. Phase 4 continues being a bomb. I won't even talk about Ree-Ree, who is as stock as it gets. We could've gotten a proper film of T'Challa going against a world-weary, proper Namor played by Keanu in full-on Wick mode, and instead we got this:

Yeah... I can't wait to see how they'll ruin Doom. Namor and Kang have already been ruined for me. Thanos was a let down, and Adam Warlock will be another Gunn caricature. Just bring on the FF and Doom, I want to taste the pain...

As a final recap:

• Namor's name is comic book for "Avenging Son". Manletmor's name isn't his name, but is a shortened version of "the boy without love" so he calls himself the unloved/loveless/virgin.
• Namor is a big, buff, attractive, regal man. Manletmor's about 5'6" with flabs.
• Namor is the prince of a long lost mythical civilization full of weird tech and magic. Manletmor's a long-lived Aztec worshipped as a faux-god.
• Namor goes toe-to-toe with the Hulk. Manletmor went down by T'Challa's nerdy sister who looks as muscled as a twig.
• Namor wages war on the surface because he controls 70% of the planet, is angry at global pollution, is bipolar and an unashamed imperialist. Manletmor's been sitting in his cave and seething about the Spanish/Euros for 400 years.
• Namor has to pacify an entire empire and also struggle with being a child of both land and sea. Manletmor's just an Aztec leading the equivalent of a small nation state whose people don't even seem that peeved anymore.
• Namor is a blunt type who tells it like it is and often is the voice of reason amongst a group of supergeniuses playing god. Manletmor's 400 years old and comes off as wise as a teenager. He commands no authority, he's just trying his best to look like an arrogant prick, which is an aspect of Namor, but without the regallity it falls flat. They replaced that with more compassion in a way, but it doesn't make up for it.

Dunno, maybe there's more. I'm tired though. Aesthetics and actor aside, Manletmor just doesn't have the bite. He doesn't have the regallity. He's another "anti-villain" with none of Namor's power and wonder. When Namor appears you should feel the same as when Thor or Hulk do. This guy feels like a mid-level muscle boss you kill in the first act of a videogame. The whole thing felt like a mediocre videogame, really.

Me, I'm buying a stealth AquaMomoa from Aquaman 2 next year and using him as a stand-in for my Namor. I was debating to wait in case Manletmor appears again with one of the comic costumes, but it's looking unlikely and even then I'd have to try and find an extra HS to fit Namor (so basically Keanu is my only option) then try to swap parts around, so it'd generally be too much of a hassle. Stealth AquaMomoa looks just fine, and I'll put him in the back of my Illuminati display so that his boots and lack of ankle wings won't be visible. Hell, he literally looks more like Namor, albeit an amalgamation of different looks, than Manletmor does. He's got the 90s/modern hair & beard combo on top of a blue/black/silver scale-like outfit, similar to what Namor's been wearing for the last 2 decades or so.

It's good enough for me. Momoa's always had the Namor look, especially due to the eyebrows. If Snyder hadn't grabbed him, he'd have been a sure contender for the role due to Drogo. We'd have gotten a much more warrior-like Namor I imagine. So in a way it works, considering they changed Aquaman into more of a Namor type anyhow. The Stealth look being similar to Namor's usual looks is just a happy cosmic coincidence for me. Maybe I'll add some random vambrances/gauntlets or something, or an armoured piece on the shoulders if I find anything on the aftermarket, to create an amalgamation of all of his looks. We'll see. Aquaman 2's coming out next December, so I'll have to wait a full year before such a figure might go up for PO. And then I'll have to choose between HT and IA, but I'll be sticking with sculpted hair regardless, because a rooted AquaMomoa will look off next to the rest of my Illuminati with their sculpted hair.

Epic post is epic.
I had a feeling this movie would be a bit of a mess, but damn...

 

[Victοr]

Epic post is epic.
I had a feeling this movie would be a bit of a mess, but damn...

I will say that the Talocan stuff were the highlight of the flick for me. Everything else was whatever. Divorced from the lore, as an OC who's "inspired" by Namor, MCU Ku'Kul'Kan's a pretty entertaining character. I liked the scene where Shuri's sad and emotional and is trying to barter for RiRis life, but Ku'Kul'Kan's unphased and basically tells her over and over again that, yes, if he doesn't get what he wants, he'll kill Wakanda to the last babe. It's just business for him, no hard feelings. Were he an OC and not a constant reminder of what I'm missing, I'd have been into him more.

PS: I'm still going back and forth on my "get an AquaMomoa as a Namor stand-in" plan. I might scrap the whole Illuminati idea. Getting a "stand-in" kind of irks me. It's just not the same. Namor’s been clean-shaven and showing his abs for 60 years. A huge beard and a musclesuit is just too different from the core. It breaks the “underwater elf/nymph” aesthetic. If I set out to assemble the Illuminati, I'll need doubles of Xavier, Reed, Tony and Strange, as I'd also need one of those for their main areas (X-Shelf, FF/Cosmic Shelf, Iron Shelf, Magic Shelf). And buying two bald guys in a wheelchair at, best case, 400€, is a bit too much... Maybe I'll create my own Illuminati roster and pick and choose the members, if I end up with any extra Reeds and whatnot. Dunno, maybe the MCU will have its own Illuminati team, maybe we'll get Krakoa Xavier with his fancy helmet; who knows. I'll wait and see. Maybe I'll be able to kitbash a Keanu Namor. I wish I could commission one the way I want him, but I don't have 2K+ to spare now. Maybe one day, when I'm done with this hobby.

 

[Otomofan]

"Nah-moooooore."


lol.

 

[Sassafras]

Epic post is epic.
I had a feeling this movie would be a bit of a mess, but damn...

Epic post IS epic. And I've heard and seen enough (saving $30+ helps pay for the 2012 Cap HT, from the MCU's Golden Age).

And just sayin' calling ANYONE the "something-something without love" is never gonna be inspirational. Not when the first random association you make is "you mean like a cheesy boy band vid?" and the Dad bod and little cherub feet don't help.

 

[Victοr]

Epic post IS epic. And I've heard and seen enough (saving $30+ helps pay for the 2012 Cap HT, from the MCU's Golden Age).

And just sayin' calling ANYONE the "something-something without love" is never gonna be inspirational. Not when the first random association you make is "you mean like a cheesy boy band vid?" and the Dad bod and little cherub feet don't help.

There is a line MCUmor says, about how only the most broken people can be great leaders. That there is a subtle nod to his source of power. My boy has been a virgin for 400 years. He unlocked the secrets of NoFap and ascended to godhood. Truly an inspiration to virgins everywhere.

PRAISE KU'KUL'KAN THE UNLOVED, THE PATRON SAINT OF VIRGINITY!

 

[ironwez20]

Anybody else think that namors kingdom was ugly as all sin? Bunch of people crowded in in the throne room. I was surprised by how ugly and bland it looked. Must be the only time dc did better than marvel. Not even that giant sun thing looked good

 

[JAWS]

Saw it last night. Way too long. I could forgive the length if the action scenes were better but they were unimaginative. We’ll accept for the attack on Wakanda that was a highlight for sure. Final battle on a big boat was a let down after that.

Namor was cool and I like the direction they took BP sister with the revenge and anger.

But ultimately it was kind of boring. There were moments I think I would have liked more if I was not bored by other moments.

Better than most of phase 4. Overall Marvel just sucks