Blue-Ray or HD DVD

[El Roranous]

It's so silly to choose a side now. You can get both for cheap. Why be a hard head and miss out on quality HD movies...

I am a proud supporter of any side that offers me the best deal on HD movies. I just went on a Blu Ray shopping binge and bought like 6 because they were at a great price. If HD DVD did some sales next week I would go out and buy those too.

 

[Natrix]

I have no doubt its better than standard DVD audio but its still not "The Standard" PCM and i have not made it sound like there was no improvement as i never even mentioned SDDVD. I know not all BDs do not have PCM but that is down to the lazyiness of the studio and not because there is a lack of space. I am certainly not happy with WB releasing substandard audio on their BD releases and Sony have alot to answer for the Spidey 1 and 2 audios (no doubt a double dip is in order) but the BD technology allows for PCM which HD-DVD cannot (why do you think HD-DVD are trying to develop a 51Gig disc). There is no arguing that point. Why waste a perfectly good speaker system on an audio track which could have been better.

I am unashamed to say I am a BD supporter because:
1). They can provide HiDef picture
and
2) Because they can provide PCM.

As an audio and visual fan these are the most important aspects for me. I accept that this is not everyones opinion. I have no interest in extras which are not even hi-def to start with. In saying that i did enjoy the interview with Stan Lee on the Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD.

The studio did not leave out PCM so that they could put the extras on. They left it out because they did not have the space.

BTW Natrix i am hardly any more biased towards on format than the other than you. I posted a BD BOGO thread and you posted a HD-DVD deal in that thread lol.

I also bought Blu Ray movies, which is why I posted in that thread...

I just try to counter your Blu Rayisms!

BTW...HD DVD can support PCM and how can the "standard" audio for Blu Ray be PCM when Blu Ray also uses True HD, DTSHD, DTS, DD and DD+?

HD DVD discs can provide their movie soundtracks in any of the following formats:

Dolby Digital
What it is: All HD DVD players are required to support standard Dolby Digital AC-3 up to 448 kb/s (the same maximum bit rate as used on DVD). However, they're also required to support the advanced Dolby Digital Plus (see next listing), and for movie soundtracks that's what almost all studios have gone with instead.
Level of support: Mandatory.
Examples of discs that use it: Dolby Digital is commonly used on the bonus features on most HD DVDs. To my knowledge, no discs have used this format for the feature soundtrack.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - The Dolby Digital bitstream would be transmitted to a receiver for decoding and processing.
* HDMI - Depending on the HD DVD player settings, the Dolby Digital can be transmitted as a bitstream or decoded to PCM first.
* Multi-channel analog - In this method, the player decodes the Dolby Digital internally and converts it to analog.


DTS
What it is: As with Blu-ray, the legacy DTS format familiar from DVD is available as an option on HD DVD, encoded at the higher 1509 kb/s bit rate.
Level of support: All HD DVD players are required to support DTS.
Examples of discs that use it: 'The Chronicles of Riddick', 'Sleepy Hollow'.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - The bitstream is transmitted to a receiver.
* HDMI - Either the raw bitstream is sent to the receiver, or the player decodes to PCM first.
* Multi-channel analog - The player decodes the DTS internally and converts it to analog.


PCM
What it is: While all HD DVD players support uncompressed multi-channel PCM, and the internal decoding of all Dolby and DTS formats is converted to PCM, movie discs with PCM appear to be limited to 2-channel audio. Whether this is a requirement of the HD DVD format itself or a choice of the disc authors is not clear. In any case, due to the enormous amount of disc space required, PCM is not a very popular option on HD DVD.
Level of support: Mandatory.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Chronos', 'Moonlight Jellyfish' (a Japanese film included as a pack-in item with the Toshiba HD-XA1 player released in that country).
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF can carry 2-channel PCM just fine and send it to the receiver for D-to-A conversion and amplification, but cannot carry more than 2 channels.
* HDMI - HDMI likewise will transmit the PCM to a receiver for D-to-A and amplification.
* Multi-channel analog - The PCM will be converted to analog and then sent to the receiver to be amplified.


Dolby Digital Plus
What it is: DD+ is the base standard audio format for HD DVD. Unlike its application on Blu-ray, DD+ on HD DVD does not utilize a core+extension configuration. The format can be encoded at bit rates of 640 kb/s (considered equivalent to Blu-ray's use of standard Dolby Digital at that same rate) or 1509 kb/s. However, note that although the latter version of DD+ shares the same bit rate as standard DTS, this does not mean that these two are equivalent to one another. DD+ uses better encoding and more efficient compression to provide improved quality at the same rate. At least one professional Hollywood sound mixer has described Dolby Digital Plus at 1509 kb/s as audibly transparent to the studio master.
Level of support: All players are required to support Dolby Digital Plus.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all domestic HD DVD releases. Discs from Warner Bros. default to the lower 640 kb/s rate, while those from Universal and Paramount tend to favor the higher 1509 kb/s (with some exceptions).
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot transmit DD+ in full quality. When using this connection method, the player will decode the DD+ and then transcode it to either standard Dolby Digital AC-3 or sometimes even DTS (depending on player model).
* HDMI - Almost all HD DVD players decode the DD+ track internally to PCM for transmission over HDMI. Some may transmit the DD+ bitstream to a receiver instead (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - In this case, the player decodes the DD+ track and converts it to analog. The quality of the DACs in the player will determine the resulting sound quality.


DTS-HD High Resolution
What it is: DTS-HD HR works on HD DVD just as it does on Blu-ray, in a core+extension configuration.
Level of support: DTS-HD HR is optional on HD DVD. Players that don't support it can extract the standard DTS core.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow' claims a "DTS-HD" track, which is presumably DTS-HD High Resolution, unless the packaging and menus are mislabeled.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot transmit DTS-HD HR in full quality. The player will extract the standard DTS core for transmission as a bitstream.
* HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD HR, it will extract the DTS core. Some players may decode the DTS-HD HR to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players may instead transmit the DTS-HD HR bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - Either the HD DVD player will extract and decode the DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the full DTS-HD HR and convert it to analog.


Dolby TrueHD
What it is: Once decoded, the lossless Dolby TrueHD format is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master (at either 16-bits or 24-bits, at the discretion of the studio).
Level of support: Support for TrueHD up to at least 2 channels is mandatory on all HD DVD players, but the majority will support it all the way to 5.1. Because there are rare cases of disc players that limit TrueHD to 2 channels (such as the LG model BH100), discs with TrueHD tracks must also contain a Dolby Digital Plus track for 5.1 compatibility.
Examples of discs that use it: '300', 'Superman Returns'.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot transmit TrueHD in full quality. When using this connection method, the player will decode the TrueHD and then transcode it to either standard Dolby Digital AC-3 or possibly DTS (depending on player model).
* HDMI - Almost all HD DVD players decode the TrueHD track internally to PCM for transmission over HDMI. Some may transmit the TrueHD bitstream to a receiver instead (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - The player will decode the TrueHD track and convert it to analog.


DTS-HD Master Audio
What it is: The other losslessly compressed format, DTS-HD Master Audio is also bit-for-bit identical to the studio master once decoded (and hence identical to Dolby TrueHD, assuming an equal bit depth is used). DTS-HD MA works in a core+extension configuration.
Level of support: Since the DTS-HD MA format is optional on HD DVD, players that don't support it will extract the standard DTS core.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all HD DVDs released by Studio Canal in Europe.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot transmit DTS-HD MA in full quality. The player will extract the standard DTS core for transmission as a bitstream.
* HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it will extract the DTS core. Some players may decode the DTS-HD MA to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players may instead transmit the DTS-HD MA bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - Either the HD DVD player will extract and decode the DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the full DTS-HD MA and convert it to analog.


At the time of this writing, no HD DVD players will decode either a DTS-HD High Resolution or a DTS-HD Master Audio audio track. The players are limited to extracting the DTS cores, or (on selected player models) may be able to transmit the codec bitstream to a receiver using HDMI 1.3. Support for these DTS formats will hopefully expand with future player models or firmware updates to existing models.

 

[Natrix]

Here are the Blu Ray specs just to be unbiased...

Blu-ray discs can provide their movie soundtracks in any of the following formats:

Dolby Digital
What it is: The audio format familiar from DVD, Dolby Digital (sometimes known as AC-3) is one of the base standards of Blu-ray. It works basically the same way that it worked on DVD in configurations from 1.0 to 5.1, though it does offer a higher maximum bit rate of 640 kb/s (which is considered audibly indistinguishable from Dolby Digital Plus at the same rate).
Level of support: Full support for Dolby Digital is mandatory in all Blu-ray disc players.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all Blu-ray discs from Sony, Warner Bros., Paramount, and Lionsgate, among others.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - Using an SPDIF connection, the Dolby Digital bitstream is sent directly to your receiver for decoding, converting to analog, and amplifying to your speakers.
* HDMI - Depending on the setting chosen in your Blu-ray disc player, the HDMI output can be used to transmit the Dolby Digital bitstream to be decoded in the receiver, or the player itself can perform the decoding to a PCM signal and transmit instead in that form. The receiver will still be needed for digital-to-analog conversion and amplification.
* Multi-channel analog - With the analog connections, the player itself must decode the Dolby Digital bitstream and convert it from digital to analog. This will then be passed to the receiver for amplification. In this case, calibration adjustments such as speaker sizes and channel levels should be entered into the Blu-ray disc player's setup menus, not the A/V receiver's. The quality of the resulting sound will vary depending on whether the Digital-to-Analog (DAC) components in the player are as good as those in the receiver. If the receiver has superior DACs, a digital connection (either SPDIF or HDMI) will be preferred.


DTS
What it is: Sometimes referred to as DTS Encore (though DTS themselves don't seem to use that name anymore), this sound format is another familiar holdover from standard DVD. Blu-ray, however, more ably supports the codec at its higher 1509 kb/s bit rate.
Level of support: All Blu-ray disc players are required to support the transmission of a DTS bitstream over a digital connection and internal decoding up to at least 2 channels. Most players (other than early models such as the Samsung BD-P1000) will decode internally to 5.1.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Terminator 2', 'Lara Croft: Tomb Raider'.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - The DTS bitstream will be sent to your receiver for decoding and processing.
* HDMI - As with Dolby Digital, the HDMI connection can carry the raw DTS bitstream for decoding in the receiver, or the player may decode it to PCM first.
* Multi-channel analog - The Blu-ray disc player will decode the DTS bitstream (only 2 channel decoding is required, but most players will do 5.1) and convert it to analog, after which it will be sent to the receiver for amplification. Once again, the final sound quality will depend on how well the audio components in the disc player compare to those in the receiver.


Dolby Digital Plus
What it is: An enhancement over standard Dolby Digital, DD+ offers higher bit rates and more efficient compression, resulting in improved sound quality. It can also support movie soundtracks up to 7.1 discrete channels (though honestly, the vast majority of Hollywood movies are only mixed for 5.1). On Blu-ray, DD+ is encoded as an extension to a "core" Dolby Digital AC-3 track.
Level of support: Unfortunately, DD+ is optional on the Blu-ray format, and not all disc players are required to support it. Many players will simply read the 640 kb/s core and disregard the extension. As a result, most movie studios prefer to use either basic Dolby Digital AC-3 or some of the other advanced formats.
Examples of discs that use it: 'A View from Space with Heavenly Music' claims a DD+ track, assuming that the packaging and menus aren't just mislabeled.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot carry a full DD+ signal. If you use this connection method, the player will limit output to the Dolby Digital AC-3 core.
* HDMI - If the player does not support DD+, it will simply extract the AC-3 core, in which case see the Dolby Digital listing above. Some players may decode the DD+ to PCM and transmit it over HDMI (any version). Other players will instead choose to transmit the DD+ bitstream to a receiver for decoding, but this requires HDMI 1.3 connections on both ends of the chain.
* Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will extract and decode the AC-3 core, or (on some models) will decode the full DD+ and convert it to analog.


DTS-HD High Resolution
What it is: Similar to Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution is an enhancement over standard DTS that offers higher bit rates and better compression. DTS-HD HR is also encoded as an extension to a "core" DTS track. (Note that DTS-HD HR is sometimes referred to as just "DTS-HD", which can be confusing and possibly misleading).
Level of support: Since this codec is also optional on Blu-ray, many players will only extract the 1509 kb/s DTS core and ignore the extension.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Basic Instinct', 'Total Recall'.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - Because SPDIF cannot transmit a full DTS-HD HR signal, the player will extract the DTS core and send the bitstream for that instead.
* HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD HR, it will extract the DTS core, replicating the DTS listing above. Some players may decode the DTS-HD HR to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD HR bitstream to a receiver for decoding (this requires HDMI 1.3).
* Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will extract and decode the DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the full DTS-HD HR and convert it to analog.


PCM
What it is: A PCM track is an exact replication of the studio master, encoded on disc without compression. The benefit to this is that it maintains the purity of the source without any loss of fidelity that may come from compression. The downside is that an uncompressed audio track takes up a tremendous amount of disc space, which may (especially on single-layer BD25 discs) negatively affect the video quality of the movie. While the Blu-ray format is capable of utilizing PCM audio up to 24-bit resolution, studios may choose to encode at 16-bit resolution instead, depending on the bit depth of the original source or concerns about conserving bandwidth (downsampling a 24-bit master to 16 bits is technically not the same thing as compression).
Level of support: All Blu-ray disc players are required to support PCM audio.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all discs from Sony and Disney, as well as selected titles from Lionsgate and other studios.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF does not have enough bandwidth to carry a full 5.1 PCM signal, so the audio track will be downgraded to 2 channels only. This is generally an undesirable result.
* HDMI - A PCM track can be transmitted in full quality over any version of HDMI and delivered to the receiver for D-to-A conversion and amplification.
* Multi-channel analog - In this case, the player converts the PCM to analog and sends it to the receiver for amplification. The quality of the DACs in the player will determine the final audio quality. If the disc player has inferior DACs to the receiver, an HDMI connection is preferred.


Dolby TrueHD
What it is: Dolby TrueHD is a "lossless" compression codec. Although it is compressed to take up less disc space than a PCM track, once decoded it is bit-for-bit identical to the studio master (at either 16-bit or 24-bit resolution, at the discretion of the studio). It may help to think of it like a ZIP file that holds a PCM track. Once you unZIP the file, you get a 100% identical copy of the original PCM, without compromising any sound quality.
Level of support: TrueHD is an optional format on Blu-ray. And since TrueHD is not built in a core+extension configuration, Blu-ray discs that contain a TrueHD track are also required to contain a standard Dolby Digital AC-3 track for compatibility with players that don't support TrueHD.
Examples of discs that use it: 'Ghost Rider', 'The Fifth Element' (Remastered).
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot carry a TrueHD signal. If using this connection type, the player will automatically revert to playing back the standard Dolby Digital AC-3 track instead.
* HDMI - If the player does not support TrueHD, it will revert to the standard Dolby Digital track. Some players may decode the TrueHD to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the TrueHD bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will decode the standard Dolby Digital track, or (on some models) will decode the TrueHD and convert it to analog.


DTS-HD Master Audio
What it is: Another lossless audio codec similar to Dolby TrueHD. The difference between the two is that DTS-HD MA is built in a core+extension configuration (just like DTS-HD HR). Although a DTS-HD MA track takes up more disc space than a TrueHD track, it does not require a secondary standard track for backwards compatibility. Since both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD are lossless, they are both 100% identical in quality to the studio master, and hence identical in quality to each other.
Level of support: Like DTS-HD HR, Master Audio is optional on the Blu-ray format. If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it can extract the standard DTS core.
Examples of discs that use it: Almost all titles from Fox Home Entertainment.
How to get it:

* Toslink or Coaxial SPDIF - SPDIF cannot carry a DTS-HD MA signal. When using this connection type, the player will extract the standard DTS core instead and transmit that as a bitstream.
* HDMI - If the player does not support DTS-HD MA, it will extract the DTS core. Some players may decode the DTS-HD MA to PCM and transmit it over any version of HDMI. Other players will instead transmit the DTS-HD MA bitstream to a receiver for decoding (HDMI 1.3 required).
* Multi-channel analog - Either the Blu-ray player will decode the standard DTS core, or (on some models) will decode the DTS-HD MA and convert it to analog.


At the time of this writing, only one Blu-ray disc player (the Samsung BD-P1400) supports the transmission of a DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream over HDMI 1.3. No current Blu-ray disc players will yet decode the DTS-HD MA track to PCM internally. All other players are limited to extraction of the standard DTS core. This situation is expected to change in the near future as more player models are released, and manufacturers issue firmware updates to existing players.

 

[El Roranous]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!:emperor

I just watch them...nerds.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

It's so silly to choose a side now. You can get both for cheap. Why be a hard head and miss out on quality HD movies...

I am a proud supporter of any side that offers me the best deal on HD movies. I just went on a Blu Ray shopping binge and bought like 6 because they were at a great price. If HD DVD did some sales next week I would go out and buy those too.

me too!!! im saving my pennies to buy a PS3 and plan on buying POTC, Spiderman, and some other cool stuff thats on sale.
~~i just won Planet Earth HD DVD on ebay for $56 shipped. i cant wait to see it when it arrives.

 

[El Roranous]

me too!!! im saving my pennies to buy a PS3 and plan on buying POTC, Spiderman, and some other cool stuff thats on sale.
~~i just won Planet Earth HD DVD on ebay for $56 shipped. i cant wait to see it when it arrives.

I just got that one for $49 on Blu Ray! It's simply beautiful man- you will love it!

Ordered Transformers from Amazon so I should have that soon. I am enjoying HD viewing as much as possible. :chew

 

[Fritz]

Here's a link:

BUY ONE GET ONE FREE AT AMAZON

Thanks for posting the link!

I would have taken them up on that offer but I didn't like the selection.

 

[My Lord]

I tried picking up Kingdom of Heaven, AVP, and Black Hawk Down on Blu-Ray with my Transformers HD DVD at CC yesterday, but they were $34.99, and therefore didn't ring up too cheap.

I totally brainfarted too, I just bought Transformers and later realized I could have picked up another HD movie and gotten both for $15 bucks each.

Oh well, at least I picked up TOP GUN for $13.49 at Fry's. They also have a Blu-Ray BOGO deal currently going on, but they didn't have any movies I was interested in.

 

[darthviper107]

https://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/10/19/sunday-get-heroes-hd-dvd-free-with-player-purchase/

Get Heroes HD-DVD ($99 value) free with purchase of Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon, which still includes the 5 HD-DVD mail in deal.

 

[tomandshell]

After Transformers, the next HD DVD exclusive I'm looking forward to:

 

[Natrix]

https://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/10/19/sunday-get-heroes-hd-dvd-free-with-player-purchase/

Get Heroes HD-DVD ($99 value) free with purchase of Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon, which still includes the 5 HD-DVD mail in deal.

That is a very good deal! Plus the add on still comes with King Kong.

 

[My Lord]

After Transformers, the next HD DVD exclusive I'm looking forward to:

This is the most anticipated movie of the year for me, Transformers was a cool second. I can finally put my bootleg copy to rest, and experience the best movie of the year in it's full HD/TRUHD glory.

 

[tomandshell]

The first two didn't have Dolby TrueHD--I'm glad they added it this time.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

https://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/10/19/sunday-get-heroes-hd-dvd-free-with-player-purchase/

Get Heroes HD-DVD ($99 value) free with purchase of Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon, which still includes the 5 HD-DVD mail in deal.

dude i love you!!! i've looking to pick up another one for a while now... how can i say no to this deal???

 

[darthviper107]

They're thinking of making a version of the Xbox 360 with a built-in HD-DVD player, and also an HDTV tuner, larger hard drive, and media center capabilities.

If it does come out it'll be later next year, but I think it's a bad idea, since HD-DVD doesn't help the console (they won't be making games that are on HD-DVD discs) and the addon drive does just fine right now. Plus it would mean a very expensive Xbox console.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

^^i agree that it would make it really expensive, but i think they should make the elite with the HD DVD drive and the other systems without it. but then i also think that MS should just suck it up and decide to make games on the HD DVD for more storage ability.

 

[KitFisto]

For all of you that didn't know. last night myself, Bad Moon, Leafscujo, P!tu, Loki and a few other board members here were informed by a very intelligent teenager on XBox Live that Blu ray "sucks" and so do people that have it. There you go people. The format war has been decided, HD DVD was the winner and we just didn't know it.

 

[Darth Loki]

For all of you that didn't know. last night myself, Bad Moon, Leafscujo, P!tu, Loki and a few other board members here were informed by a very intelligent teenager on XBox Live that Blu ray "sucks" and so do people that have it. There you go people. The format war has been decided, HD DVD was the winner and we just didn't know it.

It's a shame I wasted that money on a PS3 then

Now off to watch Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer in BR

 

[The ill Jedi]

It's a shame I wasted that money on a PS3 then

Now off to watch Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer in BR

I know how you feel, I'm watching Ghost Rider on BD right now and it looks so beautiful it makes me sick. I'm gonna take a sledgehammer to my PS3 tonight, just 'cause that pimplefaced moron said HD-DVD was better.

 

[NASEDO]

The difference isnt as big as VCR to DVD, I have a few blu-ray movies, but I'm not blown away to where I'm going to replace my DVD's to the new Hi-def DVD's. I thought I would, but my regular DVD's have a great picture.