Breaking Bad

[batfan08]

And i'm just saying Walt is an evil, unredeemable ******* who deserves every single thing that is coming to him.

What's that saying? Something about "...eye of the beholder?" You perceive Walt as a ******* only because you want to, while I perceive him as a perfectly redeemable, decent man who's done bad things. I also perceive Jesse as an ungrateful, to paraphrase himself, "*****," while you perceive him to be the reincarnation of Mother Theresa with a drug habit. See where perception comes into play?

 

[jungle jom]

My two cents... Jesse is the moral center of the show.

 

[Invictus Sol]

And i'm just saying Walt is an evil, unredeemable ******* who deserves every single thing that is coming to him.

So does Jesse. He's even worse in some ways in that he can't even deal with the decisions he's made or take any responsibility for them. Anyone that gets into the business has it coming.

 

[batfan08]

So does Jesse. He's even worse in some ways in that he can't even deal with the decisions he's made or take any responsibility for them. Anyone that gets into the business has it coming.

Exactly.

 

[CelticPredator]

Wrongful perception. The point of the show is to turn a good guy into Scarface.

Please tell me you don't sympathize with Scarface when the movie hits the halfway point...

 

[Invictus Sol]

Scarface starts as a thug and ends as a thug. Although I enjoyed the movie, I always thought he was a very two-dimensional character. Walt has far more depth and it's easier to sympathize with some of his decisions as he's adjusting with a pretty brutal learning curve in the meth business. My point is that Jesse doesn't deserve a pass for being naive. Makes him worse in a way that he can't adjust to a lifestyle that he chose.

 

[CelticPredator]

Walt doesn't deserve a pass for being an *******.



Look, my point is, with Walt defenders is they're not rooting for him as the villain, they're rooting for him as the hero. And he's not. He's not a hero at all. He's the most evil character in the whole show right now. And he's just so amazing to watch.

I guess, everyone can have their opinions or whatever and some ****. But I don't agree with it, and I think it's just beyond strange. And this is coming from a guy who roots for Jason in the Friday movies....but I know Jason is the villain.

 

[Ra88]

You can definitely sympathize with Walt, but you should NEVER forget that he is a monster. No matter what his reasoning, he has done horrible things that make him deserve to rot away for life in prison. Nothing, not even caring for your family, will ever make it right what he did through all five seasons. Hank is an obsessive, manipulative *******, but he is entirely in the right on Walt.

Jesse is not a saint either, but he's nowhere on Walt's level and he wouldn't even be in this situation if Walt hadn't been, basically, an abusive parent to him that played him at every turn.

 

[Mr. EcKo]

Someone better be dead

 

[CelticPredator]

You can definitely sympathize with Walt, but you should NEVER forget that he is a monster. No matter what his reasoning, he has done horrible things that make him deserve to rot away for life in prison. Nothing, not even caring for your family, will ever make it right what he did through all five seasons. Hank is an obsessive, manipulative *******, but he is entirely in the right on Walt.

Jesse is not a saint either, but he's nowhere on Walt's level and he wouldn't even be in this situation if Walt hadn't been, basically, an abusive parent to him that played him at every turn.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07wuZ3EWMAA[/ame]

 

[Invictus Sol]

Walt doesn't deserve a pass for being an *******.



Look, my point is, with Walt defenders is they're not rooting for him as the villain, they're rooting for him as the hero. And he's not. He's not a hero at all. He's the most evil character in the whole show right now. And he's just so amazing to watch.

I guess, everyone can have their opinions or whatever and some ****. But I don't agree with it, and I think it's just beyond strange. And this is coming from a guy who roots for Jason in the Friday movies....but I know Jason is the villain.

Oh yeah, I agree, he's the villain, no question. But I like that he's embraced what it takes to be in that business. Not like Jesse, loving all the perks but wringing his hands with the hard decisions/consequences. It's a dirty business and Walt understands that. If I were in the same business, I'd rather deal with the 'monster', Walt, than the supposedly moral Jesse (who will almost certainly lead to everyone's death/imprisonment).

 

[batfan08]

I think it goes back to the moral grey area. To me, a guy who is willing to sacrifice everything he's worked toward, just to keep his brother-in-law (who is trying to arrest him, by the way) safe isn't beyond saving. Even with Jesse, who you think he's been absolutely horrible to. In the hotel room, you could see how stunned he was by Skylar's proposition; it was only after his family was threatened further that he finally gave in. I don't see how anybody can be rooting for Jesse right now, IMO.

The only feeling he really gets from me, as an audience member, is pity. It's kind of sad, but Jesse is...well, he's pathetic. ****, I'd root for Hank before I'd root for Jesse, but, even then, I think the reason people root for Walt is because of how great of a character he is. They still want to see some of that mild mannered family man left in there; I'm guilty of it; we just don't think he's beyond redemption is all.

 

[CelticPredator]

Jesse liked the perks until things got real for him. He stopped caring pretty much after that.

And Jesse might be a **** up, but he wouldn't **** you over for a percentage. People need to realize that. Walt will do anything to protect himself. And his money.

 

[batfan08]

While you could say that Jesse's falling apart at the seams is all Walt's fault, I think it's just as much, if not more, Jesse's doing, and, as Invictus said, perhaps it's his failure to realize that that makes me less sympathetic towards him.

 

[batfan08]

Jesse liked the perks until things got real for him. He stopped caring pretty much after that.

And Jesse might be a **** up, but he wouldn't **** you over for a percentage. People need to realize that. Walt will do anything to protect himself. And his money.

I don't know, it seems like Jesse was more than happy and willing to **** Walt over this season.

 

[CelticPredator]

I think it goes back to the moral grey area. To me, a guy who is willing to sacrifice everything he's worked toward, just to keep his brother-in-law (who is trying to arrest him, by the way) safe isn't beyond saving. Even with Jesse, who you think he's been absolutely horrible to. In the hotel room, you could see how stunned he was by Skylar's proposition; it was only after his family was threatened further that he finally gave in. I don't see how anybody can be rooting for Jesse right now, IMO.

The only feeling he really gets from me, as an audience member, is pity. It's kind of sad, but Jesse is...well, he's pathetic. ****, I'd root for Hank before I'd root for Jesse, but, even then, I think the reason people root for Walt is because of how great of a character he is. They still want to see some of that mild mannered family man left in there; I'm guilty of it; we just don't think he's beyond redemption is all.

I can tell you for a fact, you'll never see "mild mannered Walter White" ever again.

But I just cannot agree, understand, or comprehend your view points. Or anyone's view points like this. It doesn't make sense to me.

It makes sense to me that people love Walter White and find him amazing, but it's baffling to me that people just find the guy so damn infallible. He built an empire out lies, pride, rage, frustration, greed, and death.
He may have started off as "I'll cook meth for my family"...but he ended with "I'll cook meth because i'm the best thing to ever happen to the meth business, and no one will ever take my throne." He might love his family....but that doesn't mean he's a good person at his core. The Iceman loved his family too....but he still went out and murdered people for the mob.

There is a grey area. But there also isn't. Walt is a bad bad bad person. Anyone who's willing to dump a small child into a barrel of acid without any real remorse doesn't have much humanity left. However, he has a tiny bit left with Jesse, but he was too hard on someone who was clearly unstable. And never gave him what he really needed.

Perhaps that hug was real. But Jesse was too frustrated by all of his bull**** by this point that I can see how someone couldn't buy it. And Walt IS full of bull****.

Ultimately, I DO want them to work together again. Ultimately, I want Walt to find some way to be somewhat heroic. But as it stands right now, he isn't a hero. And he probably will never be.

 

[batfan08]

I never said he was a hero, nor that he was infallible, but I also feel that, though he's made mistakes, he isn't "the devil" as Jesse put it. Jessie's just as bad. Walt didn't kill Drew Sharpe, but his death put them in a situation where there wasn't really any other option. Jesse helped, as did Mike; they were the clean-up crew, and, as harsh as it may be, Drew Sharpe was collateral damage.

Is it a horrible act? Absolutely. However, you can't tell me that Walt's a bad, bad, bad, bad man and Jesse's not just because Jesse manifests his "feelings" by throwing money out the window and getting high. I guess what I'm saying is that all people are wired differently. Walt might whistle at work the next day, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel anything.

It's the same as grief. Some people might be weepers; bawling their eyes out for everyone to see, and some people may not even be phased by something, only to let it stay bottled up inside. Drew Sharpe is the only real thing that I can give you. Those guys in the prison? They knew what they were signing up for. Fring? Mike? Same deal. I might be able to see Gale, but, even then, self-preservation. The same could also be said for Sharpe. Walt didn't pull the trigger, nor did he even order it, but, when it came down to "disposal," it was self-preservation.

I guess my biggest thing is this: is it a sin to embrace your human instincts? You and I will never be in these sort of situations (hopefully), but what if we were? Is it really wrong to value the skin on your back?

 

[Invictus Sol]

I never said he was a hero, nor that he was infallible, but I also feel that, though he's made mistakes, he isn't "the devil" as Jesse put it. Jessie's just as bad. Walt didn't kill Drew Sharpe, but his death put them in a situation where there wasn't really any other option. Jesse helped, as did Mike; they were the clean-up crew, and, as harsh as it may be, Drew Sharpe was collateral damage.

Is it a horrible act? Absolutely. However, you can't tell me that Walt's a bad, bad, bad, bad man and Jesse's not just because Jesse manifests his "feelings" by throwing money out the window and getting high. I guess what I'm saying is that all people are wired differently. Walt might whistle at work the next day, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel anything.

It's the same as grief. Some people might be weepers; bawling their eyes out for everyone to see, and some people may not even be phased by something, only to let it stay bottled up inside. Drew Sharpe is the only real thing that I can give you. Those guys in the prison? They knew what they were signing up for. Fring? Mike? Same deal. I might be able to see Gale, but, even then, self-preservation. The same could also be said for Sharpe. Walt didn't pull the trigger, nor did he even order it, but, when it came down to "disposal," it was self-preservation.

I guess my biggest thing is this: is it a sin to embrace your human instincts? You and I will never be in these sort of situations (hopefully), but what if we were? Is it really wrong to value the skin on your back?

Well said, batfan. It's not really about rooting for so-and-so. It's just a bad situation for all involved but they're all there as a result of their own decisions. Who gets out alive, if any, isn't going to be based off their good works.

 

[jungle jom]

I'm beginning to see parallels between Hank and Captain Ahab...

Both are on the hunt for WW, Walter White = white whale.

Both are obsessed to the point of their demise.

Both were maimed in a previous encounter.

... Just call me Ishmael.

 

[batfan08]

I'm beginning to see parallels between Hank and Captain Ahab...

Both are on the hunt for WW, Walter White = white whale.

Both are obsessed to the point of their demise.

Both were maimed in a previous encounter.

... Just call me Ishmael.

That's awesome!