Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

This is the hardest upcoming MCU movie to get right imo. They have to basically restart the character again for this time period, he has no friends or family, is one of many heroes this time making him need to be unique from them and tell a story that fits with his past characteristics

I always viewed Cap as a living legend, the best soldier in the world, but one with a concience not just following orders but doing whats right, you'd go into battle with Cap as your leader and be secure in knowing there is no better leader in the world (aside from Cyclops) to have guiding you.

The movies never did that imo.

While i loved the first movie he never really had enough time to become legendary or a skilled vet capable of supreme tactics and battle strategy, he was the first superhero, but in the modern world there's a bunch, and with the lack of his legend and his seasoned veteran skills he's no more special than Black Widow or Hawkeye.

So i have to question, without those traits what makes him special in a world full of heroes capable of the same infantry work?

________

I'd like the second movie to give him a role in the MCU that makes him Unique and special above the others who have been shown to be equal or better than him, and get some personal relationships going.

I get what YB is saying. It does seem like they kinda skipped over Cap really being Cap for much of that film, but. . .I also think they did the right move skipping through the origin and WWII in one film. The fact that he's a patriotic army guy isn't what makes Cap really interesting or distinctive in my eyes. It's the "man out of time" component, where we see how someone with the U.S. values and moral compass of the 1930s/40s deals with more "modern" issues. It has been a recurring theme from the '60s with the Avengers through the late-70s/early '80s (Cap's golden era of comics IMO), and continuing on today. He is motivated by something different than the other heroes, and that makes him compelling. In a way, it also makes him seem less like the reader, and while the trend in comic writing over the last 30 years or so has largely been the opposite (i.e., make characters the reader can really relate to and understand), I think there's a real attraction to someone like that. Hopefully the filmmakers here feel similarly. There's a damn good reason Cap and RDJ Stark don't really get along. They should be like oil and water because they epitomize different times and cultural moods. Stark is post-'60s, post-Watergate, post-"me" era of the '80s. Cap was there during the pinnacle of U.S. standing in the world, when things were less cynical, and people had more reason to believe in all those things about the U.S. than they do now.

Agreed about the man out of time component, unfortunately that was glossed over.

No wonderment at modern technology and culture.
No anger over governments using soldiers as disposable ammo to push their regime.
No emotional turmoil at losing Peggy and his Howling Commandos to time.

While it would be good if that was included for TWS i doubt they will since he's already adapted to modern times without any of that explored.

_____

IT'S THE PUNISHER

 

[JonWes]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

No wonderment at modern technology and culture.
No anger over governments using soldiers as disposable ammo to push their regime.
No emotional turmoil at losing Peggy and his Howling Commandos to time.

I think they had basically said they were saving that for Cap 2. There was enough to do in Avengers. Cap's a soldier, and part of how he dealt with it was just by being a soldier and going to battle. As he said in Avengers, the military setting he was used to. There's still plenty of time for him to deal with the real world and fall-out from losing everyone around him, something he really didn't do in Avengers. That stuff would naturally come out in living day to day and during a more quiet time.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I think they had basically said they were saving that for Cap 2. There was enough to do in Avengers. Cap's a soldier, and part of how he dealt with it was just by being a soldier and going to battle. As he said in Avengers, the military setting he was used to. There's still plenty of time for him to deal with the real world and fall-out from losing everyone around him, something he really didn't do in Avengers. That stuff would naturally come out in living day to day and during a more quiet time.

Very well put, i'd still like to see him come to terms with his place in our time period.

There's one thing that bugged me a little after rewatching TFA the other week though.

He just joined Nick & SHIELD willy-nilly-like.

They lied to him right off the bat, yet he didn't for one second think "are these the good guys?" or "it's a HYDRA plot to trick me into working for them"

Anyone else find that too easy & convenient?

 

[Niltusk]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Are there pics up yet in this thread of Cap's suit for this movie? Hope it looks more TFA than Avengers.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

No wonderment at modern technology and culture.
No anger over governments using soldiers as disposable ammo to push their regime.
No emotional turmoil at losing Peggy and his Howling Commandos to time.

While it would be good if that was included for TWS i doubt they will since he's already adapted to modern times without any of that explored.

Where? In your anti Marvel Studios fan-fic?

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Are there pics up yet in this thread of Cap's suit for this movie? Hope it looks more TFA than Avengers.

It's a mix of both kinda. The chinstrap of the helmet and earmuff covers are gone, and it's more tactical. The star is now changed to the Secret Avenger logo.

Where?

The Avengers movie

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

It's a mix of both kinda. The chinstrap of the helet and earmuff covers are gone, and it's more tactical. The star is now changed to the Secret Avenger logo.



The Avengers movie

When exactly is it shown that he's adapted?

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

When exactly is it shown that he's adapted?

That movie. It's not shown but from his first scene it's evident he's aclimated.

He's living in modern times, it wasn't shown how he reacted to culture, tech ect... which is what i wrote "it wasn't explored".

That reaction and adaption to this time period happened off-screen and he moved on, otherwise he'd be asking what are those things in your ears (Bluetooth headsets)? and those square screens with pictures and words on (computers)? and what is this Celebrities thing i've heard of? during the movie. He's not surprised or mystified by all the moderness around him.

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

That movie. He's living in modern times and it wasn't shown how he reacted to culture, tech ect... which is what i wrote "it wasn't explored".

That reaction and adaption to this world happened off-screen and he moved on, otherwise he'd be asking what are those things in your ears (Bluetooth headsets)? and those square screens with pictures and words on (computers)? and what is this Celebrities thing i've heard of? during the movie.

Yeah, that would be interesting to watch.

He suffers from insomnia and destroys punching bags in frustration. He's disgusted with SHIELD's shady tactics. He doesn't understand what people are talking about. Those are all points raised in Avengers. There's not one that indicates he's adapted. Maybe you should watch it again.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Yeah, that would be interesting to watch.

He suffers from insomnia and destroys punching bags in frustration. He's disgusted with SHIELD's shady tactics. He doesn't understand what people are talking about. Those are all points raised in Avengers. There's not one that indicates he's adapted. Maybe you should watch it again.

I don't recall Insomnia, his "disgust" was in that one scene where he found the Hydra stuff correct?. I wouldn't call it disgust since he didn't quit after that.

I just recalled one thing that made a quick reference. When he said to Stark when they were fixing the Hellicarrier about it having Electricity. I'd forgotten about that.

For the most part he just ignored the world around him and got on with it. I've heard the deleted scenes explored his emotions regarding what's happened to his life. Shame they were cut.

Do you want to see him 'adapt' then in TWS?

 

[YoNoSe]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I don't recall Insomnia, his "disgust" was in that one scene where he found the Hydra stuff correct?. I wouldn't call it disgust since he didn't quit after that.

So it's only disgust if he quits? He's trying to save the world. And he's not a SHIELD agent.

I just recalled one thing that made a quick reference. When he said to Stark when they were fixing the Hellicarrier about it having Electricity. I'd forgotten about that.

And the Hawkings reference, and the thrill at getting the Flying Moneys reference, and "is that what just happened." He needs to ask someone what an Ipod is in order to show that he's still adjusting? Okay, dude. If that's what you're looking for.

 

[Biojex]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Very well put, i'd still like to see him come to terms with his place in our time period.

There's one thing that bugged me a little after rewatching TFA the other week though.

He just joined Nick & SHIELD willy-nilly-like.

They lied to him right off the bat, yet he didn't for one second think "are these the good guys?" or "it's a HYDRA plot to trick me into working for them"

Anyone else find that too easy & convenient?

At this point, Cap has no one. All of his friends are dead, everyone he knew is gone. SHIELD is all he has at the moment, so it's logical to deduce that he'd stay with them despite his distrust. Plus Howard Stark helped found SHIELD, another reason why he's likely still with them.

That movie. It's not shown but from his first scene it's evident he's aclimated.

He's living in modern times, it wasn't shown how he reacted to culture, tech ect... which is what i wrote "it wasn't explored".

That reaction and adaption to this time period happened off-screen and he moved on, otherwise he'd be asking what are those things in your ears (Bluetooth headsets)? and those square screens with pictures and words on (computers)? and what is this Celebrities thing i've heard of? during the movie. He's not surprised or mystified by all the moderness around him.

I don't recall Insomnia, his "disgust" was in that one scene where he found the Hydra stuff correct?. I wouldn't call it disgust since he didn't quit after that.

I just recalled one thing that made a quick reference. When he said to Stark when they were fixing the Hellicarrier about it having Electricity. I'd forgotten about that.

For the most part he just ignored the world around him and got on with it. I've heard the deleted scenes explored his emotions regarding what's happened to his life. Shame they were cut.

Do you want to see him 'adapt' then in TWS?

I don't think he's fully acclimated, but he's in the midst of adjusting. They touch on this in Avengers, they just don't beat you over the head with it, because #1 it's not a Captain America movie and #2 it's not part of the story they wanted to tell. If this was a Cap movie, then I'd expect them to touch upon it more, but throwing in the "steven Hawking" moment, and the "I understood that reference" and "it runs on some form of electricity" moments, are all little "man out of time" moments.

I expect more "acclimation" moments to be present in TWS, I have no doubt we'll him Brood over Carter a bit, as well as Bucky. His discovery of the Winter Soldier's true identity is going to throw him for a loop that's for sure.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Banner even asked him on the carrier deck if he was amazed by the military technology and Cap said:

nope.

Want to know what the real irony is, that seems to be overlooked, this "man out of time" witnessed tesseract weapons technology before Shield ever did.

Although him searching for Peggy makes sense.

But if I was Cap in modern times, my body would still be more advanced than most anything from 2012/13.

Keep your flat screen TVs and bluetooth, i'm a super soldier *****es.

 

[Biojex]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Let's also not forget that this Cap has yet to sleep with a woman

 

[Josette]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

I don't think he's fully acclimated, but he's in the midst of adjusting. They touch on this in Avengers, they just don't beat you over the head with it, because #1 it's not a Captain America movie and #2 it's not part of the story they wanted to tell. If this was a Cap movie, then I'd expect them to touch upon it more, but throwing in the "steven Hawking" moment, and the "I understood that reference" and "it runs on some form of electricity" moments, are all little "man out of time" moments.

I expect more "acclimation" moments to be present in TWS, I have no doubt we'll him Brood over Carter a bit, as well as Bucky. His discovery of the Winter Soldier's true identity is going to throw him for a loop that's for sure.

Agreed completely.

It was definitely touched on in Avengers, but with the situation they had an easy explanation as to why it wasn't focused on more - there was mission at hand and it afforded the character a chance to avoid dwelling on it very much - and it's a good thing since that's better for a Cap sequel, where he is the focus character. The Loki problem was an immediate threat and even though he might not trust SHIELD he couldn't sit it out because that's who he is. It worked perfectly in Avengers.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Let's also not forget that this Cap has yet to sleep with a woman

 

[Buttmunch]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Let's also not forget that this Cap has yet to sleep with a woman

Sequel to the 40 Year Old Virgin? The 80+ Year Old Virgin?

 

[Natrix]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

 

[Biojex]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Sequel to the 40 Year Old Virgin? The 80+ Year Old Virgin?

The arm looks awesome so far

 

[Frank]

Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier

Come on MJ, you're not going to dance on top of the humvee for your fans?