Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)

[tomandshell]

Re: Captain America 2

It was implied in the first film that Hydra had been experimenting on Bucky, possibly even to the point of resurrecting him already. I assumed they were going somewhere with those hints, but maybe they were saving it for a sequel.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

To Nam's point about Winter Soldier, it wouldn't take a reasonably talented writer very long to think up a way to make Bucky the Winter Soldier in the modern world. But I still hate the idea of resurrecting the only guy who was never resurrected in Marvel for eons, and whose death (and associated guilt) played such a huge role in defining Cap for so long. It's not like saying that Uncle Ben gets resurrected in Spider-Man, but it isn't far from it. And there are so many, really more interesting Cap stories out there!

It'd be a faaaaaaaar stretch. In the Ultimates universe (which the films are heavily inspired by), Bucky was a geezer by the time Cap was defrosted. It'd definitely be a hard pill to swallow.

It was implied in the first film that Hydra had been experimenting on Bucky, possibly even to the point of resurrecting him already. I assumed they were going somewhere with those hints, but maybe they were saving it for a sequel.

When was this? Just before Cap busts him out, I don't remember any dialogue from Hydra like that. How would/could Hydra resurrect him when he wasn't even dead at that point?

 

[Spartan Rex]

Re: Captain America 2

It was implied in the first film that Hydra had been experimenting on Bucky, possibly even to the point of resurrecting him already. I assumed they were going somewhere with those hints, but maybe they were saving it for a sequel.

Yeeeeah......no. Don't recall anything like that.

 

[CTO15]

Re: Captain America 2

It was implied in the first film that Hydra had been experimenting on Bucky, possibly even to the point of resurrecting him already. I assumed they were going somewhere with those hints, but maybe they were saving it for a sequel.

I don't remember the resurrecting part (cuz he was still alive), but I do remember the implied experimenting by Zola. Maybe due to the experimenting, Bucky surives his fall from the train. And that'll probably be the reason he can be introduced to the modern day

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

I don't remember the resurrecting part (cuz he was still alive), but I do remember the implied experimenting by Zola. Maybe due to the experimenting, Bucky surives his fall from the train. And that'll probably be the reason he can be introduced to the modern day

That's so thin it's anorexic.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Captain America 2

When was this? Just before Cap busts him out, I don't remember any dialogue from Hydra like that. How would/could Hydra resurrect him when he wasn't even dead at that point?

Yeeeeah......no. Don't recall anything like that.

What is being referred to is when Cap arrives the Howling Commandos let him know that people who go into the testing area are killed, that they don't come back. Cap goes in and Bucky has obviously been tested on repeatedly.

One could make the leap that he was tested on to the point of almost dying and that his "treatments" equal the Winter Soldier and how he would have survived something like that.

Given Red Skull's enchantment with the supernatural and that he was looking to make HYDRA a force to world domination, something a kin to surviving death or resurrection isn't that far fetched.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Captain America 2

It'd be a faaaaaaaar stretch. In the Ultimates universe (which the films are heavily inspired by), Bucky was a geezer by the time Cap was defrosted. It'd definitely be a hard pill to swallow.

Well obviously you have to either say that Bucky was held in stasis or had some other treatment that kept him from aging. As I recall in the comics (its been a couple of years), Winter Soldier was held in stasis until he was needed for a mission, and then was put back in stasis after an assassination or whatever. Obviously, anyone who was alive during WWII wouldn't look like he was in his 20s or 30s in the modern day without some kind of fantastic explanation.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

What is being referred to is when Cap arrives the Howling Commandos let him know that people who go into the testing area are killed, that they don't come back. Cap goes in and Bucky has obviously been tested on repeatedly.

One could make the leap that he was tested on to the point of almost dying and that his "treatments" equal the Winter Soldier and how he would have survived something like that.

Given Red Skull's enchantment with the supernatural and that he was looking to make HYDRA a force to world domination, something a kin to surviving death or resurrection isn't that far fetched.

So you're writing EU for Cap now?

Well obviously you have to either say that Bucky was held in stasis or had some other treatment that kept him from aging. As I recall in the comics (its been a couple of years), Winter Soldier was held in stasis until he was needed for a mission, and then was put back in stasis after an assassination or whatever. Obviously, anyone who was alive during WWII wouldn't look like he was in his 20s or 30s in the modern day without some kind of fantastic explanation.

True, but it was more believable in the comic given Bucky was a kid. That's why the story works better there. Here it'll be a headscratcher, for sure.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Captain America 2

If the Soviets or whomever find him, train him, and send him off to kill 5 or 10 guys total for a few weeks apiece over that whole period of time, then why would his age be a concern?

 

[The Mike]

Re: Captain America 2

So you're writing EU for Cap now?

Are they hiring?

Given that they were hunting for Cap and Peggy mentioned that it'd take years to try and make another Cap after the HYDRA attack in Brooklyn, it's plausible that the US could have found Bucky and continued to try and make another Cap.

The writers would need to simply just have a reason to freeze him or keep him in stasis. Given that in The Incredible Hulk what was left of the Super Soldier Serum was kept on ice in a cold storage built by Stark Industries, it's logical that Bucky could have had a bad reaction to their attempt and been frozen for his own good and taken by the Soviets during the Cold War.

It's doable, it just whether or not the writers want to actually make it semi-logical.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

Don't get me wrong guys, the first thing I thought when Bucky fell of the trail was, "Winter Soldier," but I've been stumped as to how that'd be pulled of feasibly.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Captain America 2

That's my point, you would have to have a writer who says "In this universe this is how that could happen" although I'm not exactly that faithful given who is coming together with this that it'll be that well done, more like done.

 

[iron.jedi83]

Re: Captain America 2

Thanks for an answer. You guys have to understand that most of the movie-going public knows NOTHING about Captain America other than he was alive in WW2 and frozen. We've had no hit games from CA, no movies, nothing other than comics. And if the movie going public knows nothing then the producers know even less.

but these guys are Marvel Studios producers. i have faith in Marvel studios more than Fox or Sony because its a part of the big Marvel company. i believe Marvel studios knows who to hire to bring any comic story arc(with any needed alterations) to the big screen and make it believeable because they have done it for six movies now. i understand that maybe some of you might not like some of the movies but for the general movie going public it was well received.

 

[CTO15]

Re: Captain America 2

That's so thin it's anorexic.

what do you want from me? I'm not a writer, and it took me 1 minute to come up with that

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Captain America 2

It's doable, it just whether or not the writers want to actually make it semi-logical.

This universe has Thor in it, as a legit god from Asgard. They've got the cosmic cube and evil aliens. Unlike, say, the Nolanverse, I don't think the writers need to try to make any explanation overly realistic.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

This universe has Thor in it, as a legit god from Asgard. They've got the cosmic cube and evil aliens. Unlike, say, the Nolanverse, I don't think the writers need to try to make any explanation overly realistic.

You've already forgotten his conversation with Foster. They're not gods.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Captain America 2

I don't think you can say "We've got aliens and superpowered heroes so shrug your shoulders at a man who has lived 80 years and looks 20". Respect of the genre requires at least a plausible explanation with it's own hyper-realism.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Captain America 2

I don't think you can say "We've got aliens and superpowered heroes so shrug your shoulders at a man who has lived 80 years and looks 20". Respect of the genre requires at least a plausible explanation with it's own hyper-realism.

I'm not saying you give no explanation. I'm just saying that a fantastic explanation won't be given a second thought by movie-goers. Because in the Marvel movie U, a fantastic explanation (i.e., cryogenically frozen), is completely plausible.

 

[Khev]

Re: Captain America 2

If they insist on the stupid idea that Bucky is the Winter Solder they should at least wait until Captain America 3 or 4. Way too soon to bring back the source of much of his torment from his past.

I guess I should be thankful that Ratner, Sommers, or the guy who did Daredevil and Ghost Rider weren't offered the job.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Captain America 2

I'm not saying you give no explanation. I'm just saying that a fantastic explanation won't be given a second thought by movie-goers. Because in the Marvel movie U, a fantastic explanation (i.e., cryogenically frozen), is completely plausible.

They've already stated that the only reason Cap survived was the serum. So Bucky, without it, would be bubblegum.