Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[Wor-Gar]

SJW's are never satisfied!! They are becoming parodies of themselves! From her comments she's never watch the show!

https://dailycaller.com/2017/07/17/...ctor-who-for-not-being-black-and-transgender/

I think rather than try to please everyone, they should just take the show away entirely. That way no one is offended.

 

[pixletwin]

So the tradition of locating pics of Doctors who performed in drag has been replaced with Doctor actors who performed nude. Progress!

 

[Prime Clone]

For me the problem goes well beyond the fact that The Doctor is now a female. If the Doctor had been say, black; I wouldn't have cared because race doesn't really play a role in who you are other than culturally, something that is irrelevant to an alien anyway. But Gender is probably the single biggest determinant factor in the concept of identity and what it is built around.

Thing is, there's a movement that believes there should be no difference between genders. But many of those proponents also advocate gender reassignment, which kind of defeats their argument.

I'd rather celebrate gender differences than pretend they don't exist.

 

[jimcap]

You just can't get away from Stuff. I was reading a review off Dunkirk from USA today online, The reviewer gave it 3 1/2 out of 4 and overall said it was a great film. However he felt it was necessary to add this line

" and the fact that there are only a couple of women and no lead actors of color may rub some the wrong way."


Guess Nolan should have casted Will Smith, instead of Tom Hardy to play one of the RAF pilots. Also Lena Dunham as Churchill!

Sometimes I think we are just doomed!

 

[Rotfish]

What amuses me is that we're not talking about a pedophile, gorilla, or any of the other obscene suggestions that have been brought up for the Doctor; we're simply talking about a woman.

Take a step back and just think on that. Does a Doctor of a different sex really open the floodgates this way? If so, we're hopelessly lost.

 

[ali032373]

What amuses me is that we're not talking about a pedophile, gorilla, or any of the other obscene suggestions that have been brought up for the Doctor; we're simply talking about a woman.

Take a step back and just think on that. Does a Doctor of a different sex really open the floodgates this way? If so, we're hopelessly lost.

Are you asking people to rationally examine their own behavior and opinions??

 

[Wor-Gar]

a movement that believes there should be no difference between genders. But many of those proponents also advocate gender reassignment, which kind of defeats their argument.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

SJW's are never satisfied!! They are becoming parodies of themselves! From her comments she's never watch the show!

https://dailycaller.com/2017/07/17/...ctor-who-for-not-being-black-and-transgender/

 

[jimcap]

It goes beyond Dr Who I think. There is a segment in our society that is race and gender obsessed. and if you don't adhere to their narrow views then you are misogynist, sexist, bigoted whatever phobic, and member of the patriarchy, and need to be silenced. Their movement is killing the world because it is propelling political correctness to dangerous levels. They are killing free speech on college campuses, and in the media ,film and on social media. And they have already started to zero in on our little hobby. Their movement seeks to destroy and divide people, not to built and unite. The problem is for the most part, people and companies are afraid to stand up to them.

So is it a big deal that the Doctor is going to be a women? Not really. The issue is did the BBC pressure the producers into the change in the name of so called diversity? It's looking more and more like that was the case, and that's just wrong and makes me a bit angry.

 

[Prime Clone]

It's called identity politics. Our national broadcaster here in Australia has been accused of a similar agenda.

 

[Vetinari]

Meh, Sarkeesian is to the feminist movement, what the MRA people who accidentally made the unpleasant woman famous are to gamers. After a quick look at the article (I do not want to give that ****stirrer a click) it seems she's not actually bothered to even watch the show before attempting to take issue with it.

Purely anecdotally I realise - a load of people in my wider social group who stopped watching the show during the latter half of the Matt Smith era are now interested in watching it again. And ultimately whilst the income from international views/merchandise sales are sure to be a lovely moneymaker for BBC Worldwide (and gain importance come 2020), it's the BBC who are in charge of what goes on with the show. Not any of it's international branches - all of which I believe are technically separate entities. And until 2020 at least, they're a public service broadcaster who's remit, whilst informed by profit/viewing figures, isn't entirely beholden to it due to the license fee.

As to the list of female characters, whilst most are actually decent examples, I note that the vast majority are from shows that are ensemble casts rather than resting on a single lead/mostly female ensemble.

And in a "I can name genre shows too" moment Handmaid's Tale is currently airing on Channel 4 over here, and Orphan Black is one of the best programmes that isn't on TV at the moment. (Which will lead to the next point about UK-viewership) Less critically acclaimed iZombie seems to be doing well on Netflix UK, as does Once Upon A Time.

However - the vast majority of the shows listed are aimed at adults, not kids, and I hate to say this - didn't really register on this side of the pond in the same manner that Who's managed.

Whilst all gained their own fanbase over here, they tended to be aired on obscure channels that the vast majority of the viewing public didn't bother with. I remember Charmed used to be aired on the Sunday afternoon deathslot in a mega-marathon with Stargate and Star Trek Enterprise (though frankly Charmed is an awful awful show that copied Buffy's schtick less well), similarly whilst it did gain a hell of a following even over here, Buffy was not treated well in the UK. With the BBC airing heavily edited versions of the episodes so that it could continue to be shown before the watershed... And the channel that bought the rights to Angel giving up on it entirely midway through it's first season, when their ridiculously edited pre-watershed copies of the show ceased to be able to actually make sense.

Queen of Swords wasn't shown in the UK until 2008 on an obscure little channel that I've never heard of... Though being a genre fan I have watched the show, though it was a difficult one to seek out. Need I continue? Sadly, I think the only show from the listed examples that truly fits the bill (Given that Buffy wasn't brought up - and only dubiously matches the 'OK for kids' criteria that everyone else seems to be ignoring) is probably Xena, and that show ended over a decade ago.

Sadly Doctor Who is rather out on it's own in terms of British TV, being both genre TV, and aimed at families. To point out the viewership it commands - The show managed to remain in the Top 30 watched shows of the week every time it was aired since the 2005 revival. Unfortunately given the competition for rights on this side of the pond most US-made TV just doesn't get that opportunity, Game of Thrones being the major exception, and again it's got a massive ensemble cast (or in the case of Orphan Black the BBC just didn't care enough about it to keep airing it... So after several seasons only getting broadcasts months and months after the US-release it eventually got orphaned onto Netflix.)

I'm not one of the extreme group that would have been upset had 13 been male. However, I am quite excited to see where the show goes from here with it's new showrunner, new Doctor and hopefully change of tone that's as breath-of-fresh-air as the transition from the RTD-era to the Moffat-era was in 2009. Whilst I enjoyed Capaldi himself I utterly agree with the assessment around these parts that Moffat was totally up his own *** by the end of his run. The man's jokes were always cringe-inducing however, but then they have been since the 90s, nothing's really changed there. Moffat doesn't do characterisation well, he never has. His characters are always there to deliver knowing winks to the audience. The fact that both the extreme liberals and the extreme conservatives hate him for exactly the same reason these days, just from opposite sides, is rather telling.

As to the 'broflake' issue? The people throwing insults like that are just as lacking in empathy for those upset by this choice as the people sneeringly saying 'Nurse-Who' as if Doctor is a gendered word in the English language... It's funny how it's 'only a joke' if you happen to agree with the person saying the derogatory term in question isn't it? Whilst I generally just try to avoid the trolls rather than start an argument, they somewhat literally mobbed the main Doctor Who discussion forum on the night of the announcement to the extent that the mods were basically begging the regulars to not rise to the bait whilst they brought the forum back to it's usual 'family-friendly' state (I point out that sometimes the place is like a 70s old boys club) that wasn't filled with swearing, speculation about the new lead actor's reproductive rights (yes they went there), and general low level nastiness that you normally only find on 4chan.

Whilst it's one thing to critique the idiots on the far-left who genuinely are making it difficult to have a worthwhile discussion about any issue, it's another thing entirely to completely dismiss everyone who's excited to see which direction the show will take now. Especially since this thread is beginning to descend into the unpleasant echo-chamber effect itself.

Eh - sorry. The sneering back-patting as you guys oh so cleverly dismiss the BBC as SJWs - a term that for having never heard it before until Sunday evening I've rapidly come to loathe - belies your ignorance of the extremely delicate political situation that the broadcaster is in right now. Several successive governments (Both left and right) have done their best to undermine the corporation, being (rightfully) terrified of a broadcaster who's remit is to be politically neutral and instituting real-term budget cuts for over a decade. I think it's very telling that both the left and the right regularly accuse the corporation of bias to the other side.

However that's neither here nor there - Doctor Who is a show that I've adored since I was a kid. (Seriously - I have bookshelves full of Who-novels ) Whilst it's been lovely seeing people get excited about the show again, I do wish those who aren't happy about the decision would have a more open mind and not immediately resort to childishly insulting the other side and then acting surprised when their trolls react in kind.

 

[karamazov80]

Though I'm sure some here will see this as sacrilege, Rifftrax (former Mystery Science Theater guys) will be riffing on an old Dr. Who movie during a theatrical showing in August. I saw it advertised tonight. If nothing else, you could see Dr. Who on the big screen!

https://www.fathomevents.com/events/rifftrax-live-doctor-who

 

[Liz10]

The ones I mentioned are lead roles, of course there are other characters as well but they are definitely main characters. To be honest I wouldn't want to watch an all female show but that seems to be exactly what some people want, no men anymore, only women everywhere.

It's simple, back when these shows aired there wasn't such a fixation on gender and other 'issues', that's why nobody gave a ****. Not nearly as many rabid feminists & sjws as there are now, girls have been drooling over male actors or boyband members and nobody saw anything wrong with it.

Of the other ones mentioned I only watch Once Upon a Time.

I didn't know that 'suitable for kids' was a criterion, that was not mentioned, I was just responding to the claim there were no good roles for women or they could only play 'typical' female roles. I did watch and enjoy The Sarah Jane Adventures. Doctor Who is actually quite dark sometimes, not sure if that's always suitable for kids actually.

Here in Germany they cancelled Doctor Who after the finale of season 2 in 2008. I actually learned proper English just to be able to watch the following seasons. My only option back then was buying the boxsets from the UK. The show only got more known over here a while after Matt Smith took over, around season 6.

Even if it sounds cheesy, watching Doctor Who has lead me on a better path in my life, I have british friends because of it, it was my light in some dark times. Not being able to enjoy it anymore the way I used to just makes me really sad.

It goes beyond Dr Who I think. There is a segment in our society that is race and gender obsessed. and if you don't adhere to their narrow views then you are misogynist, sexist, bigoted whatever phobic, and member of the patriarchy, and need to be silenced. Their movement is killing the world because it is propelling political correctness to dangerous levels. They are killing free speech on college campuses, and in the media ,film and on social media. And they have already started to zero in on our little hobby. Their movement seeks to destroy and divide people, not to built and unite. The problem is for the most part, people and companies are afraid to stand up to them.

So is it a big deal that the Doctor is going to be a women? Not really. The issue is did the BBC pressure the producers into the change in the name of so called diversity? It's looking more and more like that was the case, and that's just wrong and makes me a bit angry.

I guess I should be happy that I can still buy male figures...

 

[Vetinari]

Ah - whilst I'm very glad that you found Who, and that it's been there for you I do hope that you'll warm to the new Doctor when her era starts, and the show under the new showrunner. Of course if you don't, Doctor Who does have 50+ years of back-catalogue to appreciate until the time when the show returns to a form that you appreciate again. I mean even if you do already own all of the DVDs it's difficult to keep the entirety of the run fresh in your head - and if you haven't already Big Finish is a brand that I recommend to anyone.

(I myself have varying degrees of appreciation for different eras, and have been watching the latter-half of the Moffat era more out of loyalty than out of any consistent enjoyment :-

ambivalent to One, adore Two, despise Three (though his era is incredibly well-done), Four is brilliant in every way, Five, interesting if a hell of a change of pace, Six cuttingly hilarious if you can look beyond the awfulness of the scripts/costumes, Seven brilliant and I wish he'd been given a chance, Eight (My Doctor), Nine 'fantastic', Ten amusing if far too arrogant, Eleven alien and manipulative initially before turning into a parody of himself, Twelve brilliant - but massively let down by his era.

Ironically for such a massive Who-nerd my perfect Who era was, and probably always will be when it resided almost purely in the novel format in the 90s.)

Ah sorry - I tend to forget that international viewers don't have the context... Um Doctor Who is and always has been primarily aimed at British children. No one else. Certainly not us obsessive nerds, the merchandise buyers, international viewers, the Whitehouse's of the world, or the worried parents who fear that the show is too much for their precious kiddies, but for the children. Who enjoy being terrified, challenged, enthralled and all of that. There's a reason that ever since the revival the Doctor has carried around a standard housekey, and worn outfits that are reasonably easy to replicate using a school uniform.

Even under Moffat's shakey guidance they've taken care to reference that, for all that it fell to the wayside in more recent years - with the space-whale rescuing everyone because British kiddies were crying, the frightened little boy who's nightmares literally came to life, and the entire class of schoolkids who... Didn't do very much when the magical ridiculous forest engulfed the planet for no rational reason. Moffat's never been able to resist the occasional off-colour joke, but Who is a family show, even if it's forgotten it at times.

There's a reason that RTD made two spin-offs in his day - Sarah Jane for the kids that were a wee bit too young for the main show, and Torchwood - aimed at adults, but ironically more adolescent than the parent show. (Apart from Children of Earth which is brilliant and dark - and the reason my shrivelled little nerd-heart would have sung with joy if Captain Jack had ever come across 12.)

Ahem anyhow - in terms of being a show targeted at kids and their parents, hence the tea-time timeslot over here - the BBC almost have a duty (they have a government charter) to make stuff for the entirety of the British public irregardless of how commercial or not it is, hence the existence of several channels that hardly anyone ever watches and radio stations with incredibly specific target audiences. Whilst there has been a shift away from that approach with the looming deadline of the Charter Renewal looming over everything like the iceberg to the Titanic, until that point the merchandise, nerds and fans are all a happy side-effect of a well made children's TV show catching the zeitgeist in a way that would have been unthinkable in the 80s, and if I've understood it correctly the show itself isn't actually able to touch a penny of the money all of that earns them.


As to not giving a damn about gender issues one way or the other - I personally lean slightly to the left of you, but no where near as left as the activists/people advocating that every lead ever should be female (even though even in this day and age the vast majority of leads are still male when the split should really be 50/50). I personally believe that I can see an issue with lack of representation, however I'm not advocating changing male heroes to female a la Marvel's rather hamfisted approach, or even demanding that women should be the lead in films where it would be inappropriate.

Hell, one of my favourite genre shows of the last few years absolutely had women in secondary roles - Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. A show about two white Englishmen and their tempestuous frenemy relationship.

However, in terms of one of my favourite shows in the whole world? Like you I suspect Doctor Who felt like my own personal little secret world when I first discovered it, the Doctor was very much the character that I wanted to be as a kid - companions as point of view characters be damned (though given that the main companion in the brand of Who I was particularly interested in was Fitz Kreiner... A purposefully useless clod in the Adam brand initially, no wonder). However, when Eccleston came along I grew to love his take on the character, to the extent that I still think the man should have done at least one more season, moral stand or no.

Urgh - sorry I'm trying and failing not to write another essay, basically what I'm saying is that everyone has their favourite era of the show. And none of that is being taken away. It's still there, unlike the infamous deleted episodes it will likely always be available. I suspect my viewpoint on this is from the leftfield (not that particular left) because of the era of the show that I grew up with... But during my personal era The Doctor was this utterly alien other, unknowable, fae, making decisions that often enraged his human companions who didn't understand his logic or morality. The character was always other, separate, the outsider. Often terrifying to the very people he travelled with. This approach enabled them to tell some truly fantastic stories, the kind of thing that the TV show would never dare begin to approach, though Moffat occasionally came close with some of his more twisty time travel stories, and Human Nature/Family of Blood is a reasonable adaptation of one of the novels.

Basically how I'm hoping Chibnall will approach the show? Get rid of the Moffat excesses, the 'knowing' nods and winks to the audience, breaking the fourth wall with silly 'jokes' about current affairs that don't actually address the political issue they're bringing up but merely reference it childishly and just get back to storytelling that actually makes logical sense all the way through the plotline instead of breaking down into nonsense during the last five minutes, give up, shrug it's shoulders and go 'oh well'.

The companions should go back to being friends and travelling buddies - not 'the most important woman ever!' or Doctor-lite that we ended up with not once but twice over in the form of River and Clara. (However, if Romana were to make a return she'd be more than welcomed, as would the Rani, Drax, The Meddling Monk, Susan...) Keep the ridiculous over the top continuity to a minimum, it was exactly this kind of self-referential BS that got the show cancelled the first time around... Though I appreciate the irony of calling for that whilst saying in the same paragraph that more old characters coming back would be welcomed... And basically focusing on telling good stories again rather than the self-referential spectacle that Moffat is famed for.

As for the female Doctor? Please give her a chance. No doubt at some point the Doctor will be male again, but in the meantime she doesn't erase the thirteen male incarnations of the character that came before.

I suspect Chibnall himself had everything to do with the change rather than any 'pressure' from the BBC - they had to practically beg the man to take on the role of showrunner. s10 was supposed to be Chibnall, not Moffat. The Beeb had to beg Moffat to stay on a year. It's an infamously exhausting job. RTD burnt himself out doing it, and Moffat... Well look at his track record, during the 50th Anniversary year we got 5 episodes and the special... And we were supposed to be grateful for it...

Whilst his track record on Who is spotty Chibnall's writing CV is undeniably impressive, and it's rumoured he's swapping to a writer's room format to improve script consistency, and lighten the workload on the showrunner.

The man's just come off of running Broadchurch - a show that I believe has been critically acclaimed internationally. He could have gone on to do pretty much any project he wanted, and yet he's doing Doctor Who. I'm personally choosing to take all of this as a positive sign. Chibnall obviously has a story that he wants to tell. And I'm very interested in seeing what it's going to be.

Frankly, the casting news is minor in the face of all of these major changes. My main fear is that irregardless of what goes on behind the scenes Whittaker will be unfairly blamed for whatever happens next in the same way McCoy and C.Baker were.

And if nothing else as an appeal to the show-for-children angle, I've seen so many videos of excited kids screaming about the new Doctor. If nothing else it's heartening to see that a new generation will grow up watching "their Doctor", and the fact that that Doctor is an actor who is known to be excellent at her craft.

 

[LIBBY1957DOG]

And It starts!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowb...w-Doctor-star-Jodie-Whittaker-goes-naked.html

Thanks BBC Now I won't be able to watch and not think about wanting to bang the Doctor.

it started a while ago for some

full disclosure i haven't watched the show since william hartnell was in it and won't watch it now

but the new dr was great in this film from 2006 ,along side Peter O'Toole in i think his last film role and Leslie Phillips ding dong and Vanessa Redgrave
well worth a watch

 

[matrix69]

It goes beyond Dr Who I think. There is a segment in our society that is race and gender obsessed. and if you don't adhere to their narrow views then you are misogynist, sexist, bigoted whatever phobic, and member of the patriarchy, and need to be silenced. Their movement is killing the world because it is propelling political correctness to dangerous levels. They are killing free speech on college campuses, and in the media ,film and on social media. And they have already started to zero in on our little hobby. Their movement seeks to destroy and divide people, not to built and unite. The problem is for the most part, people and companies are afraid to stand up to them.

So is it a big deal that the Doctor is going to be a women? Not really. The issue is did the BBC pressure the producers into the change in the name of so called diversity? It's looking more and more like that was the case, and that's just wrong and makes me a bit angry.

I'm afraid the human future is looking bleak..no boy...no girl...no man...no woman...no differences...no thought...no originality....y.o.u. w.i.l.l. b.e.c.o.m.e. l.i.k.e. u.s...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...

 

[Vetinari]

I'm afraid the human future is looking bleak..no boy...no girl...no man...no woman...no differences...no thought...no originality....y.o.u. w.i.l.l. b.e.c.o.m.e. l.i.k.e. u.s...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...

I personally prefer Renton's take on it in Trainspotting... Though of course given how he phrases it I can't exactly quote that here.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I personally prefer Renton's take on it in Trainspotting... Though of course given how he phrases it I can't exactly quote that here.

No

 

[jimcap]

I'm afraid the human future is looking bleak..no boy...no girl...no man...no woman...no differences...no thought...no originality....y.o.u. w.i.l.l. b.e.c.o.m.e. l.i.k.e. u.s...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...PAIN...

So we are all doomed to become Cybermen, Or is it Cyberperson now?

 

[Sweet Rabbit]