Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[Entropy]

Mine finished downloading several hours ago.

 

[Kabukiman]

*shakes fist at Entropy Chicken*

I don't get this torrent business at all.

 

[pixletwin]

Just finished watching it and all I have to say is

Spoiler

where the hell was the "big twist" at the end? I was a bit disappointed by that

otherwise it was the best Xmas episode since Christmas Invasion.

 

[Entropy]

I loved it and was never expecting what you mentioned, pix.

The fxs, sets and cinematography were great.

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Hated it! "It stinks!"

Spoiler

The Next Doctor? More like bring on the next "exec producer". Ugh!

Once again we have the Cybermen, who I love dearly, returning in a story where they themselves are practically "could be anybody" background characters, much like every new series Dalek story except their first.

If the story was handled serious, and say like a horror movie (as most Cybermen stories ultimately could be improved by), the story could have been okay. The reason the guy thought he was the Doctor was very cool, but he himself was not from the moment he was introduced. If they played it more straight, it would have been immensely better, IMHO.

I have always felt Cybermen needed new elements brought in. If only the Cybershades didn't look stupid they could have been cool. And the Cyber-King? Ugh! WTH? I just kept laughing. Like they needed that to convert and take over a pre-technological town? And have a Cyberconversion chamber in their chest up there when all the people to convert are all the ways down there on the ground? It doesn't even make any sense. It's almost like the Pengiun planning on kidnapping all the first-born children of Gotham in one night in his duck train from Batman Returns. "THIS WAS YOUR GREAT PLAN?" At least the Doctor didn't animate a Statue of Liberty to fight it. RTD must be kicking himself to have not thought of that.

I enjoyed the Cybermen graveyard fight scenes and the electrocuting, and the new Cyber controller looks wicked, but thats about it. Oh how I long for a solid, well told story. Damn you, Russel T Davies! Keep your filthy stinking paws off my show!

 

[Blackhole]

Spoiler

Flashbacks? They weren't flashbacks...they could have been awesome, a truly memorable moment...

Other than that, I liked the episode overall...

 

[bcm77]

Hated it! "It stinks!"

Spoiler

The Next Doctor? More like bring on the next "exec producer". Ugh!

Once again we have the Cybermen, who I love dearly, returning in a story where they themselves are practically "could be anybody" background characters, much like every new series Dalek story except their first.

If the story was handled serious, and say like a horror movie (as most Cybermen stories ultimately could be improved by), the story could have been okay. The reason the guy thought he was the Doctor was very cool, but he himself was not from the moment he was introduced. If they played it more straight, it would have been immensely better, IMHO.

I have always felt Cybermen needed new elements brought in. If only the Cybershades didn't look stupid they could have been cool. And the Cyber-King? Ugh! WTH? I just kept laughing. Like they needed that to convert and take over a pre-technological town? And have a Cyberconversion chamber in their chest up there when all the people to convert are all the ways down there on the ground? It doesn't even make any sense. It's almost like the Pengiun planning on kidnapping all the first-born children of Gotham in one night in his duck train from Batman Returns. "THIS WAS YOUR GREAT PLAN?" At least the Doctor didn't animate a Statue of Liberty to fight it. RTD must be kicking himself to have not thought of that.

I enjoyed the Cybermen graveyard fight scenes and the electrocuting, and the new Cyber controller looks wicked, but thats about it. Oh how I long for a solid, well told story. Damn you, Russel T Davies! Keep your filthy stinking paws off my show!

Sounds like my decision to watch "Tomb of the Cybermen" instead was a wise one.
ReTarD is a stain on the franchise and it seems none of the Classic bad guys are safe from his boneheaded ideas.
It's too bad the majority of viewers have been force fed so much trash TV in recent years that they'll continue to lap up ReTarD's drivel for the rest of his run and presumably that of his highly overrated successor as I'm starting to think the best thing for the show would be cancellation.

 

[Jiminydog]

It's clear that this episode was conceived ...

Spoiler

...as a "teaser" -- a way of throwing out chaff to confuse the fan radar, so to speak, about the "next doctor" ... and that was the entire point of the story, to have this feint, to say "well here's the 'next doctor'," and to show the previews of those first few minutes where the new character seems to know about the Tardis and the sonic screwdriver and has a companion and so on ... and that was the entire point of the exercise, and the story and filling out the rest of the hour all came secondary to that. And as a result, it was ultimately disappointing. It was not about the story, it was about RTD playing sly games with audience expectations. I hope he doesn't do that for the rest of the Tennant specials, or it's going to be a disappointing end to the tenth doctor's run.

 

[barbelith]

where the hell was the "big twist" at the end? I was a bit disappointed by that

Most of the "spoilers" posted on the DWF are just fans trying to get attention by making things up. Eddie is a classic example. I still can't believe anyone was seriously expecting the Monk to show up. Or a Doctor the BBC itself says hasn't been cast yet. I am going to mail you a bag of salt for Christmas!

Once again we have the Cybermen, who I love dearly, returning in a story where they themselves are practically "could be anybody" background characters, much like every new series Dalek story except their first.

But let's face it - much of the classic series was the same way. At least here we have conversion as an essential component of the plan and the Cybermen as a small band of desperate survivors.

If the story was handled serious, and say like a horror movie

...it would have half the ratings and a corresponding budget and episode count. As much as I love the Hinchcliffe stuff, we're never going to see that again as mainstream entertainment. Doctor Who deserves the biggest audience it can get and that means taking a family approach.

And the Cyber-King? Ugh! WTH? I just kept laughing. Like they needed that to convert and take over a pre-technological town? And have a Cyberconversion chamber in their chest up there when all the people to convert are all the ways down there on the ground?

They need a conversion factory. Why not make it mobile? It's functionally a moving tower yet I doubt anyone would be complaining about the distance to the ground if it were literally a Victorian tower. The Cybermen in this story have been unable to complete a conversion thanks to limited technology (hence the shades) so it makes sense to focus all their efforts on a Cyber King mobile (and heavily defended) factory rather than try to secure a warehouse etc.

RTD is a stain on the franchise

Aside from transforming an embarrassing relic into a mainstream hit, obviously. His reign has been very uneven and I'll be the first to agree stuff like Fear Her and Journey's End should never have been made. But on the other hand we have two wonderful Doctors, gorgeous new Cybermen, a series that continues to draw gobsmacking ratings, and things like Dalek and The Girl in the Fireplace and Human Nature and Midnight that would never have been made.

 

[barbelith]

It's clear that this episode was conceived as a "teaser" -- a way of throwing out chaff to confuse the fan radar, so to speak, about the "next doctor" ... and that was the entire point of the story, to have this feint, to say "well here's the 'next doctor'," and to show the previews of those first few minutes where the new character seems to know about the Tardis and the sonic screwdriver and has a companion and so on ... and that was the entire point of the exercise

Have you read The Writer's Tale? That wasn't the entire point of the episode at all - nor why it was conceived.

 

[bcm77]

Christopher Eccleston was fantastic,"Dalek" is the best Nu-Who story,the new Cybermen look great and even David Tennant was good for a series but the stories you mentioned......I could have done without any of them because they sucked.

As for the ratings,like I said audiences have been brainwashed by a constant diet of TV that's created for the lowest common denominator (ie the sort of morons that take reality shows seriously) most of them haven't a clue what good storytelling is and will lap up any old crap providing the special effects are flashy enough,hence the success of Nu-Who.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I think people in general fell in love with shows like Heroes and Lost based on the quality of the storytelling. Decreasing viewership due to bad writing and stupid story arcs is proof that they do care, though the loss of shows over the years like Wonderfalls also shows that audiences can be shallow at times.

 

[pixletwin]

Really all in all I enjoyed the episode. It was great to watch after all of the Christmas activities were over, just me and my sons. They really loved seeing the previous incarnations.

As for the cybermen, to me they haven't been really compelling enemies of the doc since Earthshock, so to see them relegated to the background in an episode which was more character driven (Jackson Lake/Next Doctor mystery) is ok with me.

I would rate it 4 of 5.

 

[barbelith]

As for the ratings,like I said audiences have been brainwashed by a constant diet of TV that's created for the lowest common denominator (ie the sort of morons that take reality shows seriously) most of them haven't a clue what good storytelling is and will lap up any old crap providing the special effects are flashy enough,hence the success of Nu-Who.

On the other hand, the new series is constantly getting awards for its writing and one could surmise the ratings are so strong precisely because audiences are capable of discerning good storytelling from a sea of "any old crap."

I wish they had selected better clips for the past Doctors though - most of them felt like they'd grabbed a random DVD instead of searching for an amazing shot of each actor. That was disappointing.

 

[bcm77]

Christmas Day TV ratings

1.Wallace & Gromit (14.3 million)
2.Doctor Who (11.7 million)

The "mighty" Nu-Who has been beaten by some lumps of plasticine

The ratings are also down on last years special which got something like 13.4 million. Could the bubble be starting to burst?

 

[ProgMatinee]

Not sure how being #2 is bad...?

Can I ask, what about the old Who puts it head and shoulders above the rest? I say this as a moderate fan of both. Beyond sentimentality, I really can't see how the old Who deserves so much more praise than the new in your eyes? Really, the writing was that much better? Its not the acting or the set pieces or the effects.

 

[bcm77]

The effects and action scenes are the only thing the revived show does better which considering the advances in technology and vastly increased budget is to be expected.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Still waiting for a reasoning of what is good in the old one for you.

IMO the acting in the old Who's I've seen has been hit and miss and when it's a "miss" its been worse than bad soap opera bad.

Not to bash anyone's favorite, but especially the Tom Baker episodes have been REALLY unimpressive for a large part. I can see how one might have fondness for him if you grew up with it, but his acting ability is pretty subpar compared to even the most average of actors in most successful series' today. His modern equal is more akin to "Sci-Fi Originals" type actors than major network stars.

 

[bcm77]

Still waiting for a reasoning of what is good in the old one for you.

IMO the acting in the old Who's I've seen has been hit and miss and when it's a "miss" its been worse than bad soap opera bad.

Not to bash anyone's favorite, but especially the Tom Baker episodes have been REALLY unimpressive for a large part. I can see how one might have fondness for him if you grew up with it, but his acting ability is pretty subpar compared to even the most average of actors in most successful series' today. His modern equal is more akin to "Sci-Fi Originals" type actors than major network stars.

Carry on waiting because I know why I like it and don't have to justify crap to you or anybody else.

 

[ProgMatinee]

LOL. Fair enough, just thought you'd enjoy carrying on a conversation to give basis for why you hate everything about the new show because you certainly throw the opinion about at every chance. But if you don't want to take that opportunity, fine be that way.

Typical forum mentality. You want to be heard, but not listened to. You want to speak your mind and say it sucks but won't take the time to say why and how... LOL.