Edition Size....Does it really matter???

[nash]

Well said. The results of this poll so far are either hypocritical or extremely naive. At the price they are charging for these items I don't know how people can afford "not to care" and be so cavalier about high edition sizes in this economy.

I also think a lot of folks like to try and seem high and mighty like they can do no wrong. As if actually caring about the ES somehow makes you less of a "true collector" than those who do.

Anyone who says the ES doesnt matter fails to realize the discussion on two key points. First being price-point, and second the fact that these are LIMITED EDITION Collectibles. The whole reason why companies even make an edition size and limit these items is to "try" to protect the buyers' investment and to give the buyers incentive to buy these expensive products.

Another point to make, caring about the ES has nothing to do with flipping or scalping or resale value. It has everything to do with knowing that the $300 retail you spent wasn't wasted down the road when people are buying it for $150.

If you are a SMART shopper, you SHOULD care about the ES. If you just like to throw away unneccessary money then not caring about the ES is for you. You might as well just ask sideshow to auto-charge your card for every new product that is released.

 

[Lord Aykroyd]

Extremely limited = urgency to buy now.
High ES = wait for the secondary market and get plenty of the other cool stuff coming out that may not be available later for retail.

Exactly. Moreover, a low edition size suggests that I may not be able to find/afford the piece later - which drives the urgency even more.

I like to know what I buy is relatively rare as well - so a low edition size makes a piece more valuable for me on a personal level.

 

[samueljd]

I also think a lot of folks like to try and seem high and mighty like they can do no wrong. As if actually caring about the ES somehow makes you less of a "true collector" than those who do.

Anyone who says the ES doesnt matter fails to realize the discussion on two key points. First being price-point, and second the fact that these are LIMITED EDITION Collectibles. The whole reason why companies even make an edition size and limit these items is to "try" to protect the buyers' investment and to give the buyers incentive to buy these expensive products.

Another point to make, caring about the ES has nothing to do with flipping or scalping or resale value. It has everything to do with knowing that the $300 retail you spent wasn't wasted down the road when people are buying it for $150.

If you are a SMART shopper, you SHOULD care about the ES. If you just like to throw away unneccessary money then not caring about the ES is for you. You might as well just ask sideshow to auto-charge your card for every new product that is released.

Thank you. Some of the angry folks posting here somehow equate that wanting or collecting a low ES makes you a scalper who is out to make a profit on the secondary market. That is a false presumption, because many of us have different reasons why we may collect the varying pieces we collect and tastes and preferences of the pieces. I like to collect low ES' when I get a chance to get a low one, not to sell it later, but because I like to keep it and it is my own personal preference. When I buy these pieces I have full intention to keep them.

 

[Mesa]

Also, those that say "I buy to keep" probably haven't been collecting for very long or have very large houses or just don't buy that much. Because I wish I could keep everything I buy, but eventually you run out of room and need to let some stuff go to get new stuff. A lower ES helps fund the ability to keep collecting.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

I also think a lot of folks like to try and seem high and mighty like they can do no wrong. As if actually caring about the ES somehow makes you less of a "true collector" than those who do.

Yeah, that seems to be the case sometimes. Some people use it as a badge of honor. I guess they feel more hardcore or whatever the equivalent of it.

I don't really mind as long as they post pictures when they get something first to better educate myself if an item is worth a purchase.

 

[Darth Madden]

Also, those that say "I buy to keep" probably haven't been collecting for very long or have very large houses or just don't buy that much. Because I wish I could keep everything I buy, but eventually you run out of room and need to let some stuff go to get new stuff. A lower ES helps fund the ability to keep collecting.

But in that case you are not buying it for the sole intention of selling it again soon which is what most people seem to think anyone who wants a low ES wants to do. Everyone has to sell stuff eventualy to make room for new stuff.

 

[The Drizzle]

I can't see feeling good about buying something now that will be 50% cheaper a few months later. That's pretty much what this poll tells me: we'll buy it NOW no matter how many you make because our fandom is greater than being an educated consumer.

This just doesn't bother me. I do try to only choose things I won't want to get rid of, but sometimes I dislike things, and I have taken losses to resell them. Doesn't really bother me. Just a fact of life. Most things in life don't have high resale value and depreciate. The things that do get more valuable are mostly things whose rarity is due to time or accident, not things that have a manufactured value due to artificial scarcity. I'm just not keen on manufactured collectibles.

Extremely limited = urgency to buy now.
High ES = wait for the secondary market and get plenty of the other cool stuff coming out that may not be available later for retail.

I just buy what I want, period. I still think it would be just fine to manufacture based on orders taken. This would make the company more sales, and there would still be demand later for the well-made product for those of you that decide you need to sell. People will come along later wanting it after production is over. That is real collectible demand, not forced value.

 

[The Drizzle]

If you are a SMART shopper, you SHOULD care about the ES. If you just like to throw away unneccessary money then not caring about the ES is for you. You might as well just ask sideshow to auto-charge your card for every new product that is released.

Now who sounds high and mighty? I don't buy with the intention to resell ever, so I don't worry about ES. If it is a good item, it's going to resell reasonably enough no matter what the ES because it is a good product. *THAT* is what should determine value- quality, not limited nature.
And that last line about auto-charging is absurd...why would I do that? I don't want all of their stuff, in fact, I don't want *most* of it, I carefully choose items I think are nice. I never even look at edition size. I collect, not invest. If you really feel the need to invest, try gold, not toys and statuettes.

 

[creecher]

You're the one being condescending now. You're taking what someone is saying in general terms and turning it around to be all about you and how you collect. Making it personal. Justifying your position, when it isn't about or directed personally toward you. These peoples comments are taken out of context when you take the position that they are directed as personal attacks, for want of a better word.

Sure, what one person experiences isn't going to apply to everyone, but it doesn't mean anyone is wrong. An opinion can't be wrong. Anyone is going to buy, what they like. That goes without saying. As collectors, that needn't necessarily be the case. There are a great many collectors that pick and choose, just as valid as wanting to collect an entire line, as a focus or as a completist, for whatever reason. As is the interest and knowledge one can collect about their prize pieces, such as edition size, year of manufacture, history of the said piece, whatever.

Being superficial about the edition size doesn't make a bad collector, just a, perhaps, disinterested collector. One who buys what he likes for keeps, being one example. If you don't take an interest in some aspects of collecting, such as edition size, then you also can't join in on topics of conversation pertinent to having that knowledge. A knowledge I suspect many have, without necessarily considering it when making a purchasing decision.

 

[Havok]

I think it's a little harsh to say just cause someone says ES doesn't matter too much to them, that they think they are high and mighty, and don't care about throwing their money away on any kind of collectible. I personally said ES doesn't matter to me cause in all honestly it doesn't that much. I get a piece solely based on the fact that I like it and I would love to have it in my collection, ES really is just the icing on the cake. I don't take my purchases lightly, as my money and where it goes is very important to me.

Now I'm not trying to make this personal by saying how I like to collect or how I think, I'm just giving my opinion in that I think just cause someone says ES doesn't matter, doesn't mean I/we take our purchases lightly. I personally don't intend to sell anything I purchase, and I fully intend to actually stop purchasing when I do run out of room. The only way I can see myself selling anything is if something comes out that I absolutely have to have, which I know can be alot of things. But that's why I'm trying to be very choosy right now while I still have room, that way if I do stop, I know I'll have a great collection of quality pieces.

So I guess ultimately I do care about ES, but like I said already, I don't take my purchases lightly....even if a piece wasn't limited edition and I absolutely loved it, I would still get it. I understand that being a limited edition piece makes it more desirable and fulfilling once you actually have it, and I wholeheartedly agree on that point. So I think that actually matters more to me, the fact that it's just limited edition is enough for me I think. Even if it had an ES of 10,000, the fact that it's only 10,000 in the whole world still makes it very limited to me. So I guess I'll change my opinion and say ultimately the fact that something is limited edition is more important than a particular ES. Of course this is all just my humble opinion, and I would still absolutely buy something that wasn't limited edition if I truly wanted it in my collection.

 

[The Drizzle]

Also, those that say "I buy to keep" probably haven't been collecting for very long or have very large houses or just don't buy that much. Because I wish I could keep everything I buy, but eventually you run out of room and need to let some stuff go to get new stuff. A lower ES helps fund the ability to keep collecting.

Okay, perspective:
Personally, I've been collecting genre items for a good 29 years. (since I was 12 or so, I won't count stuff I owned as a small kid) I live in an average size apartment. I have seen the ins and outs of collecting- the super-rare items, and the pure crap that you end up reselling for pennies on the dollar. I have owned such diverse stuff as Hot Wheels, Pez, Most of the Star Wars figures ever released, including 12-Back figures (even a telescoping sabre Kenobi and Blue Snaggletooth- I ordered him from the Sears Catalog, and my letter to the 1st person that made the Star Wars price guide back before the internet learned about it from me- my name is in the credits of the first edition that Blue Snag is listed), Super Powers Figures (Even Cyborg) at least 2 of each Playmates Star Trek figure (even Tapestry Picard, etc) I have owned pretty much every important Marvel Comic of the Silver Age (yes, even Amazing Fantasy #15), and quite a few of DC's. (lots of 1st appearances) I'm pretty much a knowledge bank of all of it. It's been fun. I have forgotten more things than some of you have bought. Not bragging, (in fact in some ways it makes me feel foolish) I have just spent a lot of money on toys and comics, and I've been doing it for a long time. (I don't buy comics any more though, haven't since about 1994, and all I saved were the original Valiants, and the "Giant Turtle Man" issue of Jimmy Olsen because it makes me laugh). Got a comfortable percentage of my money back out of all of it. My point is none of this stuff had an artificial "Edition Size" Companies made what they thought they could sell based on pre-orders. That's how I feel companies like Sideshow should operate. Enough items went up in value to make up for those that went down. It evens out. I despise the idea of "exclusive" items and "regular editions"- I think it should all be the same. That behavior reminds me of Variant Covers on comics, and it's a cheesy practice. That practice hurt comics in the 90's, and it still makes the comics industry a bit hard to take seriously now. Make them all with the cool cover.
These days, I do sell some of my things when I am not happy with them, or I feel like I have too many things, but I still don't care about edition size.
I will admit I rarely buy items that cost over $200 these days, because above that, I feel like it's foolish. I don't want to tie too much money up in such a frivolity as toys, nice though they may be.
All the stuff I collected and what I sell has created the opinion on this topic that I have today, which I believe is an informed opinion.
I try very hard to be conservative in my purchases, to only order items I feel I have a strong chance of enjoying, and planning to keep. Scarcity means nothing to me; I have been down that road, and it takes my enjoyment, at the very least, away from the actual item, and makes monetary value too important to me. I see dollar signs rather than the item. When I use terms like "scalper", I speak from experience- takes one to know one. I have been one a time or two. I love the new term "flipper" which is supposed to make "scalper" seem less ominous. I bet those guys outside of sporting events would like to be known as "flippers"...sounds like a friendly Dolphin. I stopped buying to "flip" as it's called now after I read about Dennis Barger (anyone remember him?) conning kids out of $50 for "Monkeyface Leia" figures. It just stunk. I will admit to still being tempted sometimes, but I don't give in to it now. Either you buy it to keep and enjoy, or you buy it to sell later. Sometimes people do buy to keep, and then later decide to sell. That's all good, you're not married to it. However, I'm not crazy about the concept of scalping, and I'm not crazy about the concept of manufacturing something in small editions to create artificial rarity. Also, if you buy it because you think it's cool you have it, and most people won't be able to, that *is* a sort of elitism. I suppose having had all those SA comics made me feel that way, I'll admit it. Sorry. Hey, I've been guilty of it, but there is one difference- the rarity of those comics was not artificial, it was caused due to time and demand.
Various things have colored my opinion of artificial rarity- Seeing my friends not being able to have a complete collection of Trek figures unless they paid a scalper $500 for Tapestry Picard, also seeing it as I warned friends' wives not to pay scalper prices to finish the Beanie Baby collections they swore would finance their kids college. I believe in most cases, Sideshow's items are pretty much reasonably priced, rare or not. (except maybe their 1:6 figure prices, quality has not kept up with increases)
Look at Hot Toys- these days they aren't setting edition sizes. I just read they were going back and making another run of Joker v1 figures since the demand is there. I think that's great, and I am glad more people will be able to enjoy that figure. The more they sell, the more demand HT sees, the more likely it is we get more figures. I wish Sideshow thought that way. The limited nature of SS Star Wars is what kept me from collecting that line from the start. I just gave up early. Sure, I could still get a figure for a bit after release, but unless I remembered to get on the phone one particular morning, I didn't get all the accessories, and I'm not paying the same amount for less stuff. They made it too hard, too limiting. Too late to start now. I'm also a proponent of being very careful about what and how much stuff you buy- if you own too much, you really can't enjoy it all, so don't buy every item that catches your eye. Hoarding dilutes the experience. As my Mom says, "Buy what you like, because you might get stuck with it", and I think that applies even to ES stuff.
Well, nuff said, savage me if you feel you need to, but I do think after my years of buying, collecting, selling, etc, my experience is an informed one that helped me decide how to buy today.

(Oh, and BTW, I own pretty much none of that stuff I talked about any more, so I really don't have anything to be elite about...in fact, I was probably a fool buying most of it, but it shaped my opinion on all of this today)

 

[Havok]

I think that was all very well said Drizzle. I haven't been collecting long, but since I have a small place right now, space is a premium for me. So like I said in my previous post, If I have to end up stopping the collecting game, then that's just how it would have to be, cause I really don;t want to sell anything I have or get in the future. I could always keep things stored and rotate, but I really wouldn't want to do that honestly. So again like I said earlier I get what I really want regardless if it's limited edition or not, even though it is nice to have something that is limited.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

This just doesn't bother me. I do try to only choose things I won't want to get rid of, but sometimes I dislike things, and I have taken losses to resell them. Doesn't really bother me. Just a fact of life. Most things in life don't have high resale value and depreciate. The things that do get more valuable are mostly things whose rarity is due to time or accident, not things that have a manufactured value due to artificial scarcity. I'm just not keen on manufactured collectibles.

Not necessarily. I have seen plenty of stuff that has been given a low ES increase in value instantly: Grey Hulk diorama, Negative Zone Spidey PF, Classic/Retro Spidey PF, some faux stuff, etc.

I just buy what I want, period. I still think it would be just fine to manufacture based on orders taken. This would make the company more sales, and there would still be demand later for the well-made product for those of you that decide you need to sell. People will come along later wanting it after production is over. That is real collectible demand, not forced value.

The ES must be controlled by Sideshow and not by the amount of orders received because of artificial demand. Sideshow has to take control and have an ES in mind that is realistic and appealing to collectors. It's their job to find the balance point given economic conditions and by taking a good look at the market, their cancellation ratios, collector trends, feedback in forums like these, their current inventory, etc.. Overproducing items under the assumption that people will come along later to purchase it is great if you have plenty of space in your warehouse and you don't account for people passing now to get a good deal later hurting your short term profits. Whatever discount they are getting at the factory in China for making a large amount of any given product better be worth it.

 

[nash]

Ok, you guys that are saying you dont care about the ES because you'll get something regardless if you really like it....I can see what you are saying.

However answer me this. If say Sideshow made a PF with an edition size of 3,000 and a retail price of $500. You really really liked it so as you said, you bought it regardless...you spent $500 on this thing.

6 months down the road these are sitting in Sideshow's warehouse and collectors/retailers alike. We can now buy them on the secondary market for $300. You really wouldnt care that you lost out on $200 of your hard earned money? It wouldn't prompt you to maybe be a smarter shopper in the future and to analyze the ES of a certain item to sort of feel out how it may sell so that you can perhaps get it cheaper later on?

Second question:...You don't care about the ES so you would buy these items at these prices even if they were "unlimited" runs?

 

[The Drizzle]

Overproducing items under the assumption that people will come along later to purchase it is great if you have plenty of space in your warehouse and you don't account for people passing now to get a good deal later hurting your short term profits. Whatever discount they are getting at the factory in China for making a large amount of any given product better be worth it.

But that really doesn't address what I said. I still think they should keep an ordering period open for a reasonable amount of time, and produce based on those orders received, not a set number of items made to create scarcity. If they can sell more than their internally projected edition size, it makes the particular sculpt more profitable.
It can also be proven by the inverse: take an item like the "Shaun of the Dead" 1:6 figures. They have a very low ES but are still available. If they had produced only on what was ordered, they wouldn't be sitting on that extra stock (and hey! for collectors of genuinely rare items, they would be a dream!)
I never said make tons more so that they have stock sitting around, that was not the thrust of my take on this, and I don't consider that wise. My beef is with edition sizes set low just to make an item rare for no really logical reason, when there were more people who would have wanted the item, and just didn't make it to the website in the 1st 2 or 3 days the item was offered and sold out. I don't think they should keep selling the item indefinitely. I just think they would do better to base edition sizes on actual orders taken (during a reasonable time period) so as not to shut out other potential customers who don't sit right on top of their computers checking for new offerings every day. SS has plenty of things that sell out in the 1st few days of being offered...it just seems like it would be smarter to make ES less important, and sell as many as they can in the offering period.

 

[The Drizzle]

Ok, you guys that are saying you dont care about the ES because you'll get something regardless if you really like it....I can see what you are saying.

However answer me this. If say Sideshow made a PF with an edition size of 3,000 and a retail price of $500. You really really liked it so as you said, you bought it regardless...you spent $500 on this thing.

You're coming at it from a "set edition size" mindset. I'm anti set edition size.
If Sideshow had not announced an ES, and just taken orders over a reasonable time period (let's say 2 weeks to a month) they could produce basically just what was ordered, give or take a few pieces, so items would *not* be sitting around the warehouse for ages and ages. After the ordering period has closed, they would take "wait list" orders, and that would probably take care of selling the edition out/covering cancellations. The ES could be announced later after ordering has closed, or never announce it. (Wouldn't bother me either way) Oh, and I'd never order a $500 piece even if it had an ES of 10... I don't spend that kind of money on decorative items, especially ones that are delicate enough that they could break just from being accidentally knocked off a shelf, like a PF.

I think the misunderstanding here is that the pro ES crowd is not understanding that the "buy it if you like it, I'm uninterested in ES" crowd is not saying SS should make lots of them just to make lots of them, or offer them indefinitely.
I at least, am saying that they shouldn't just announce an edition size only to stupidly find out later they missed out on lots more sales because they set the ES too low in the effort to "create" a valuable item rather than let the market dictate value.

 

[Havok]

Ok, you guys that are saying you dont care about the ES because you'll get something regardless if you really like it....I can see what you are saying.

However answer me this. If say Sideshow made a PF with an edition size of 3,000 and a retail price of $500. You really really liked it so as you said, you bought it regardless...you spent $500 on this thing.

6 months down the road these are sitting in Sideshow's warehouse and collectors/retailers alike. We can now buy them on the secondary market for $300. You really wouldnt care that you lost out on $200 of your hard earned money? It wouldn't prompt you to maybe be a smarter shopper in the future and to analyze the ES of a certain item to sort of feel out how it may sell so that you can perhaps get it cheaper later on?

Second question:...You don't care about the ES so you would buy these items at these prices even if they were "unlimited" runs?

Well Basically this is my opinion on the 2 questions.

Number 1: I would feel a little bad that I paid more for an item if it ends up selling for less in the future. But honestly who can tell if they are going to be hard to find or not? Yes I know 3,000 may seem like a huge ES, but really it isn't, at least to me anyway, and if it's a really popular item it could very well sell out and be hard to find later on.

Number 2: If I'm being completely honest, it would probably make it harder to pull the trigger on a purchase if these weren't at least limited editions. If they were about $100 cheaper I would probably still buy them though, even if they were "unlimited" runs. But I don't see that as a realistic situation cause I don't see SS or other companies making unlimited amounts of these kinds of collectibles, I think it would be too costly for them.

 

[The Ween]

Ok, you guys that are saying you dont care about the ES because you'll get something regardless if you really like it....I can see what you are saying.

However answer me this. If say Sideshow made a PF with an edition size of 3,000 and a retail price of $500. You really really liked it so as you said, you bought it regardless...you spent $500 on this thing.

6 months down the road these are sitting in Sideshow's warehouse and collectors/retailers alike. We can now buy them on the secondary market for $300. You really wouldnt care that you lost out on $200 of your hard earned money? It wouldn't prompt you to maybe be a smarter shopper in the future and to analyze the ES of a certain item to sort of feel out how it may sell so that you can perhaps get it cheaper later on?

Second question:...You don't care about the ES so you would buy these items at these prices even if they were "unlimited" runs?

This happens all the time in life. I've bought things only to have the price go down weeks or months later. And this doesn't just apply to collectibles. That's just the way it is.

Things go up and down all the time. Something that is valuable now, may not be in a year.

I got caught up in the beanie baby craze and I can't give the things away now.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

I never said make tons more so that they have stock sitting around, that was not the thrust of my take on this, and I don't consider that wise. My beef is with edition sizes set low just to make an item rare for no really logical reason, when there were more people who would have wanted the item, and just didn't make it to the website in the 1st 2 or 3 days the item was offered and sold out. I don't think they should keep selling the item indefinitely. I just think they would do better to base edition sizes on actual orders taken (during a reasonable time period) so as not to shut out other potential customers who don't sit right on top of their computers checking for new offerings every day. SS has plenty of things that sell out in the 1st few days of being offered...it just seems like it would be smarter to make ES less important, and sell as many as they can in the offering period.

Here is the thing: this is a hobby, and as such, you as a collector have to make some kind of an effort to "collect". Back in the days people that collected action figures and toys had to go out and hunt. Some learned the days when the new stuff arrived and some knew when the times scalpers hit a certain spot. It meant getting in your car (or bus if you were younger) to hit a local Kmart/Walmart/Target or whatever in search of that special toy/collectible.

Nowadays, all it takes at most is to be here on Thursday night at 6pm PST and wait for that newletter. Sometimes you have to arrange for a PPO but we have not had a really good one in quite some time.

Conclusion? as a collector, you gotta do your part. It's a hobby so some degree of action/involvement is necessary. Having a low ES item every once and then is part of the game and it keeps that spark going. If you yourself can't make it then get a friend to order for you. I have done it for others and others have helped me. That's why I don't buy into the high ES theory due to "helping collectors place their orders at their leisure". You basically take all responsibility from Sideshow on managing the collectible value of their product. May be they should change their name to Sideshow Coolstuff instead of Sideshow Collectibles if the ES doesn't matter to so many people.

 

[Havok]

Here is the thing: this is a hobby, and as such, you as a collector have to make some kind of an effort to "collect". Back in the days people that collected action figures and toys had to go out and hunt. Some learned the days when the new stuff arrived and some knew when the times scalpers hit a certain spot. It meant getting in your car (or bus if you were younger) to hit a local Kmart/Walmart/Target or whatever in search of that special toy/collectible.

Nowadays, all it takes at most is to be here on Thursday night at 6pm PST and wait for that newletter. Sometimes you have to arrange for a PPO but we have not had a really good one in quite some time.

Conclusion? as a collector, you gotta do your part. It's a hobby so some degree of action/involvement is necessary. Having a low ES item every once and then is part of the game and it keeps that spark going. If you yourself can't make it then get a friend to order for you. I have done it for others and others have helped me. That's why I don't buy into the high ES theory due to "helping collectors place their orders at their leisure". You basically take all responsibility from Sideshow on managing the collectible value of their product. May be they should change their name to Sideshow Coolstuff instead of Sideshow Collectibles if the ES doesn't matter to so many people.

I honestly think that's a little unfair to say we have to do our part as collector's and make time for PPO's and Newsletters. We all have lives and sometimes things just don't work out the way you want them to and you can't make time for things like that. There are more important things in life than collecting statues, so I don't hold it against anyone who isn't able to make time for those things, and I don't consider them less of a collector, or think they aren't doing their part. Again just my humble opinion. And out of curiosity what do you consider a high ES?