Falcon and The Winter Soldier (potential) Hot Toys 1/6

[Sassafras]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Here are some main criticisms off the top of my head:

1. Broke the "Show, don't tell" rule of writing on many occasions. This is pretty amateurish tbh. It's like Day 2 of writing. It's so rampant I'm actually baffled by it.

2. Sam is the main character yet he's extremely passive until episode 5/6. Again, shows a serious misunderstanding of how to tell a story.

3. Show would've been much better off exploring how a "modern" Captain America would operate. For example, what would Cap say or do to fix the aftermath of the blip? See Cap become more of a political figurehead instead of just a "super soldier" considering Falcon isn't even "super." He could've tackled all kinds of race and inequality issues and become his own version of Cap apart from Rogers who was basically just a boy scout/super soldier (not that I'm complaining).

4. Karli is a terrorists who does terrorist things but doesn't agree that she's a terrorist?

5. During Sam's speech, he is asked some legitimate questions by the senator and he just lectures right past it. Clearly doesn't have a clue about how to handle a complex problem. Starts talking about how everyone hates that he's black, etc.

6. Bucky doesn't want to be the Winter Soldier anymore. "Captain America and the Winter Soldier." I mean this is just a tiny example that many of the characters didn't really go through any meaningful changes. Bucky is supremely nerfed and is just okay with being Cap's sidekick I guess. Kinda seemed like he was okay with that in Endgame. Falcon also accepted the shield in Endgame and then inexplicably gives it up to create needless conflict for the show. They could've tackled all of these issues with him just being Cap. Walker? Honestly what's there to even say about him. The same people claiming Daenerys turned too quickly are praising Walker as a character. Karli? Terrorist but hung up on being called a terrorist. Zemo? He really just broke out to help them and then basically let himself be caught? Sharon? Doesn't even remotely resemble her character from previous appearances. Yeah, yeah she might be a Skrull. Doesn't help this show.

Honestly, I think I might be done with Marvel after this and Wandavision. It's not that I hated it. It's that this is the first time I felt like this stuff was for kids. They're not trying to do better. They're just churning out low-quality content. I am just plainly not hyped for anything coming down the pipe anymore.

They're afraid to take risks and push the story forward. Wandavision = Scarlet Witch becoming Scarlet Witch. This show = Captain America becoming Captain America. This stuff is pure filler.

Whatever, at least my wallet will be pleased I'm not buying HT for a while.

Agree with a lot of this. Overall - so far I think WandaVision was the better series, tho it fell off at the end, but I think as an MCU vehicle it was COHESIVE - don't know the right word to use here. But for me it felt like reading a more or less complete comic book run; had some nice interchanges I appreciated like Vision and White Vision (reminded me of that last Ultron scene "at thing isn't beautiful, because it lasts"). Then there was the dead-on accuracy of reflecting the different eras. Had some weak areas; but for me no worse than the Dr. Strange movie. And IMO Olsen and Bettany do an amazing job - plus at no point did I feel that these characters weren't the Wanda and Vision I knew from the films.

Re FWS - think I saw a mention where showrunner Spellman had a "team of writers" - which isn't anything usual; but maybe it explains the uneven quality of the writing (along with trying to complete a show whose production was suspended from Covid). And the show started off well enough. Was more than happy to see Zemo back, and Russell's Walker IMO was a revelation. But Spellman & co. for me, managed, by the end, to churn out a script I'd think of as something I'd be more likely to see on a fan fiction level; not knowing when to EDIT. Or, from my perspective, not reading the room. And, like a lot of fan fiction, the two main characters end up being something IMO unrecognizable; for me Sam Wilson in particular. It felt like a lot of self-insertion was going on; as opposed to paying attention to characters the audience is very familiar with.

Not ditching the MCU yet; 'coz Loki is upcoming; tho I am a lot more wary than I was re the show.

LOL don't know how happy MY wallet will be, taking a pass on Falcon $$$$ - but my shelves will be, as it's true dealing with the wings is always a space consideration. My wallet will probably get strained anyway buying a Zemo if he gets released. Plus have Loki on PO.

At least I won't have to deal with that weak clip on a flight stand either. Don't think HT has bothered to improve that yet.

 

[user 64404]

Agree with a lot of this. Overall - so far I think WandaVision was the better series, tho it fell off at the end, but I think as an MCU vehicle it was COHESIVE - don't know the right word to use here. But for me it felt like reading a more or less complete comic book run; had some nice interchanges I appreciated like Vision and White Vision (reminded me of that last Ultron scene "at thing isn't beautiful, because it lasts"). Then there was the dead-on accuracy of reflecting the different eras. Had some weak areas; but for me no worse than the Dr. Strange movie. And IMO Olsen and Bettany do an amazing job - plus at no point did I feel that these characters weren't the Wanda and Vision I knew from the films.

Re FWS - think I saw a mention where showrunner Spellman had a "team of writers" - which isn't anything usual; but maybe it explains the uneven quality of the writing (along with trying to complete a show whose production was suspended from Covid). And the show started off well enough. Was more than happy to see Zemo back, and Russell's Walker IMO was a revelation. But Spellman & co. for me, managed, by the end, to churn out a script I'd think of as something I'd be more likely to see on a fan fiction level; not knowing when to EDIT. Or, from my perspective, not reading the room. And, like a lot of fan fiction, the two main characters end up being something IMO unrecognizable; for me Sam Wilson in particular. It felt like a lot of self-insertion was going on; as opposed to paying attention to characters the audience is very familiar with.

Not ditching the MCU yet; 'coz Loki is upcoming; tho I am a lot more wary than I was re the show.

LOL don't know how happy MY wallet will be, taking a pass on Falcon $$$$ - but my shelves will be, as it's true dealing with the wings is always a space consideration. My wallet will probably get strained anyway buying a Zemo if he gets released. Plus have Loki on PO.

At least I won't have to deal with that weak clip on a flight stand either. Don't think HT has bothered to improve that yet.

For curiosity what made Sam fell unrecognizable to you?
I really think the Pandemic cause a lot of trouble in those Disney+ shows, maybe it could be better if they waited to finish everything in the proper time.

 

[Sassafras]

For curiosity what made Sam fell unrecognizable to you?
I really think the Pandemic cause a lot of trouble in those Disney+ shows, maybe it could be better if they waited to finish everything in the proper time.

Because the Sam Wilson I knew was grounded, compassionate, had a sense of humor, loyal, intelligent, and never would have used a dismissive phrase like "white people" (especially since Riley, who he had literally lost interest in the military for, was white; and also since Sam had been dusted, and had just gotten back into town, probably had no idea who was working at the bank - a lot of Vietnamese and Hispanic immigrants have moved into the New Orleans area, for one thing).

He also wouldn't have, as a former counsellor, and member of the military, pretty well forgotten Steve's TWS explanation of what happened to Bucky; so basically telling Bucky what happened to the shield was none of his business was insensitive at best. Also, anyone in the military meets a LOT of different kinds of people; I'd have thought he would have been farther along dealing with *issues*.

Unspoken stuff like, the DC area where we first meet Sam is pretty expensive. He's jogging at the Mall. To me, between his job at the VA, and any military benefits, he was doing OK financially. Which in turn means having things like a retirement plan, insurance, etc. So all the financial stuff presented doesn't compute with his former history, at all, because even as a fugitive, or dusted, anything he had would have gone to his sister. Besides, he would have known to go to financial institutions in DC, some military specific. So basically, I was being told the intelligent Sam Wilson was financially irresponsible?

Don't think Wilson showed the slightest bit of having that wry sense of humor through this whole thing. Mostly he seemed to be trying to channel being commanding or grim or whatever. To me he came off as insensitive, patronizing, self-righteous with some weird dynamic with Karli.

 

[Dino_Ranger_White]

Yes you and I are definitely on the same page. I'm not going to respond to some of the other posters here because I don't want to get into an argument but I'll say this:

1) There is nothing wrong with criticizing something you care about because you want it to be better. People like bad things all the time. That doesn't make them "good" or above criticism.

2) The biggest argument against my points has been in favor of things that are "coming in the future." It's like you said, my time is too valuable. I just wasted 6 hours on bad TV and Wandavision on top of that. I have no interest in the future.

All I would love to know is when TV had to be so freaking deep for people.
I mean honestly, you are thinking WAY too hard about a 6-hour TV show.

I would definitely recommend you not watch anything on TV, ever again.

Nuff' said.

 

[roninjai]

Man, y'all are just savaging this. I feel like we watched two different shows. I guess it's a case of YMMV. I enjoyed it a lot. Captain America's corner of the MCU has always been my favorite, and this scratched my itch. Was everything great? No, but I feel the good stuff far outweighed the bad stuff. Batman & Robin this was not.

FWIW, I'll be getting Scarlet Witch, Vision, Bucky, and SamCap HT's to add to my collection. (And I'd get a Zemo and Batroc in a heartbeat.)

 

[gmoney5000]

Fact of the matter is, if you don't like it, turn it off. Don't complain about it, don't have a whine, just ignore it and move on to something that you enjoy, and let the people who are enjoying these shows enjoy them without having you rain on their parade.

All I would love to know is when TV had to be so freaking deep for people.
I mean honestly, you are thinking WAY too hard about a 6-hour TV show.

I would definitely recommend you not watch anything on TV, ever again.

Nuff' said.

I must say, it's interesting to see this as a form of "argument" or justification. "You don't like it, then leave and don't complain!" Not trying to be insulting here, but this take it or leave it mentality is so juvenile it begs me to question whether you two are actually capable of engaging in a thoughtful, intelligent dialogue or not.

Also, no one is asking for these shows to be "freaking deep," but when a show voluntarily decides to tackle a heavy issue like racism in America, yes, I do expect it to address the topic in a comprehensive and meaningful manner, rather than the ham-fisted, platitudinous, borderline preachy approach they decided to go with.

If you guys are satisfied with mediocrity than by all means enjoy this show all you want, but please don't condescend and tell those who bring up valid, critical points to F off. This is a FORUM after all, which is intended to be used as a form of discussion and dialogue. If you can't be respectful or just want to simply shut down conversation because you happen to disagree with the opinion then perhaps it's YOU who should move on.

ZING!

 

[rocbolt]

This is a forum for toys, this show has enough dumpster fire discourse

 

[zalesk37]

 

[GreenRanger-Kush]

Before USagent appears on screen, the woman says something like

Why does it take this long?

And his girlfriend replies

It is probably the helmet.

What does she mean by that?

 

[Dino_Ranger_White]

I must say, it's interesting to see this as a form of "argument" or justification. "You don't like it, then leave and don't complain!" Not trying to be insulting here, but this take it or leave it mentality is so juvenile it begs me to question whether you two are actually capable of engaging in a thoughtful, intelligent dialogue or not.

Also, no one is asking for these shows to be "freaking deep," but when a show voluntarily decides to tackle a heavy issue like racism in America, yes, I do expect it to address the topic in a comprehensive and meaningful manner, rather than the ham-fisted, platitudinous, borderline preachy approach they decided to go with.

If you guys are satisfied with mediocrity than by all means enjoy this show all you want, but please don't condescend and tell those who bring up valid, critical points to F off. This is a FORUM after all, which is intended to be used as a form of discussion and dialogue. If you can't be respectful or just want to simply shut down conversation because you happen to disagree with the opinion then perhaps it's YOU who should move on.

ZING!

First off, I didn't tell anyone to F off.
You are putting words in peoples mouths...
so it's you who are being disrespectful, pal.

Second, you complain about literally everything on this forum, so I'm not surprised in the least that you post something like this and agree with all the complaining points.

Many shows tackle heavy issues (from racism to sexual assault, etc.) and many do it in the same manner, so this is nothing new. Calling it all mediocre is an insult to everyone who worked hard on the show to "entertain" people.

That's the last thing I am going to say on it.

 

[Sassafras]

Many shows tackle heavy issues (from racism to sexual assault, etc.) and many do it in the same manner, so this is nothing new. Calling it all mediocre is an insult to everyone who worked hard on the show to "entertain" people.

That's the last thing I am going to say on it.

Unfortunately I believe the showrunner and writers had less interest in entertainment than using the two main characters as a sounding box. I find it difficult to believe anyone genuinely interested in carrying on and building Bucky and Sam's relationship and characters wouldn't have studied the previous movies, the comics, and even the fandom.

When Netflix took over Lucifer, they actually studied fan comments from Reddit and other sites. What did the fans like; what worked, what didn't. It's been a wildly successful strategy. Netflix even mentioned there'd be mention of Covid, but they weren't going to go heavily into it.

As opposed to FWS; which stuffed story into messaging, ending up with an uneven mashup. End result is the most interesting characters are side characters who aren't involved in the lecturing and mostly unremarkable action, as well as that cringe speech. Sam, Bucky, and fans deserved better. I know I feel insulted, speaking of insults. I'd spent a lot of money on figs for these characters and was a huge Team Cap fan long before this showrunner was involved. But Kevin Feige is really to blame. So if these figs need a big sale to sell, Marvel should have thought about their merch sales besides trying to be PC.

 

[gmoney5000]

First off, I didn't tell anyone to F off.
You are putting words in peoples mouths...
so it's you who are being disrespectful, pal.

Second, you complain about literally everything on this forum, so I'm not surprised in the least that you post something like this and agree with all the complaining points.

Many shows tackle heavy issues (from racism to sexual assault, etc.) and many do it in the same manner, so this is nothing new. Calling it all mediocre is an insult to everyone who worked hard on the show to "entertain" people.

That's the last thing I am going to say on it.

No, you didn't actually literally tell anyone to F off, but when you dismissively tell someone to never watch TV ever again because you didn't like their opinion/criticism on something you are more or less implying it. Also since you seem to take my response quite literally, I guess I'll do the same with you.

I don't complain about LITERALLY everything on this forum. That's impossible. I've praised things before when HT got it right, so you're clearly incorrect!

Okay, so calling something mediocre "is an insult to everyone who worked hard on the show to 'entertain' people." Well if that's the case then I guess no one should have dared complain about the Mk. 85 sculpt cause my, oh my, we're hurting the feelings of the sculpter and factory workers who produced that sculpt! I guess we shouldn't complain or whine about it and simply move onto something we do like!

Yeesh, criticism is a fundamental component to ensuring high standards...which is one of the reasons you or I collect Hot Toys...they are the best of the best and if they're not then they should certainly be put on blast. Same goes with this MEDIOCRE show. There's a reason the season finale got blasted by everyone...but yeah, I guess that was mean of everyone because people worked hard on the show...okay! Clearly not hard enough though since it's rotten!

 

[yacobschlomo]

I wouldn't call a show with an 88% overall rating mediocre. I didn't particularly like it, but it's definitely not something I would consider mediocre. Endings are often nitpicked more and most of the negative reviews seemed to complain about open storylines (which is obviously intentional to setup the next movie/show)

I am curious to see what Falcon Caps suit looks like in figure form. It didn't look great in the show, but seems like one of those that nay look better as a figure.

 

[medicomsucks]

I liked everything until episode 6 but enjoyed it overall. Really was glad to see Bucky involved in the actual story, we really have just seen him fighting along the last few outings.

 

[user 64404]

No, you didn't actually literally tell anyone to F off, but when you dismissively tell someone to never watch TV ever again because you didn't like their opinion/criticism on something you are more or less implying it. Also since you seem to take my response quite literally, I guess I'll do the same with you.

I don't complain about LITERALLY everything on this forum. That's impossible. I've praised things before when HT got it right, so you're clearly incorrect!

Okay, so calling something mediocre "is an insult to everyone who worked hard on the show to 'entertain' people." Well if that's the case then I guess no one should have dared complain about the Mk. 85 sculpt cause my, oh my, we're hurting the feelings of the sculpter and factory workers who produced that sculpt! I guess we shouldn't complain or whine about it and simply move onto something we do like!

Yeesh, criticism is a fundamental component to ensuring high standards...which is one of the reasons you or I collect Hot Toys...they are the best of the best and if they're not then they should certainly be put on blast. Same goes with this MEDIOCRE show. There's a reason the season finale got blasted by everyone...but yeah, I guess that was mean of everyone because people worked hard on the show...okay! Clearly not hard enough though since it's rotten!

Actually about the season finale geting this score can be explained by two things:
1. Because of the Covid the whole Flagsmasher plot had to be changed, this would explain why things felt rushed.
2. The pandemic messed with the Disney + schedule of post production, just read the Wandavision interviews about the last batch of episodes, the creators had to change a lot in the last 2 episodes by lack of time, this probably also happened to this show.

I agree with you, we have to have a solid opinion about things and express..

 

[gmoney5000]

Actually about the season finale geting this score can be explained by two things:
1. Because of the Covid the whole Flagsmasher plot had to be changed, this would explain why things felt rushed.
2. The pandemic messed with the Disney + schedule of post production, just read the Wandavision interviews about the last batch of episodes, the creators had to change a lot in the last 2 episodes by lack of time, this probably also happened to this show.

I agree with you, we have to have a solid opinion about things and express..

Absolutely, and I want to make it clear I'm not bashing the show just for the fun of it. I legitimately wanted to enjoy this show, but it fell short of my expectations (and clearly others too), so I was merely voicing that opinion.

I also want to make clear I have no qualms if you liked this show, more power to you! However my issue is this need to try and shut others down because they voiced valid criticism. We should all be able to voice our opinion, good or bad.

Anyways someone made a good point that this is a toy forum, so I recognize that and I'll just end it by saying if you liked this show, great! I hope the figures turn out well and you can enjoy them too! Also, in the end I was having fun with the back and forth...so no hard feelings to anyone!

 

[Centrocal]

Ayo would make an excellent figure. Her costume would be very impressive in 1/6. And if they included a 2nd head sculpt of another member of the Dora Milaje, like Yamma (the one who picked up the shield) that would encourage troop building to make 2 figures. Then once they make Okoye (because we still need her and Valkyrie to complete the girl squad scene) people would be more inclined to pick her up because we would have 3 Dora Milaje figures.

 

[Zurdo95D]

I kind of wish BW didn't die in EG, I would have definitely wanted to see Bucky-Nat, potentially in the show, but alas..

 

[ArtDamage]

I kind of wish BW didn't die in EG, I would have definitely wanted to see Bucky-Nat, potentially in the show, but alas..

Sigh...what could have been. At the very least an exploration of them crossing paths or working together in her solo film would have been cool. I always thought the Russos made it seem as if she wasn't telling the whole truth to Steve at the hospital with Nick Fury. Or when she asked for Barnes to recognize her in Civil War.


For some reason I'm kinda tempted to still pick up bucky from this show, but yikes was he a wasted character in this. Well acted, but pretty wasted.

 

[matticus]

Thought I'd be waking up to Falcon Cap....Guess it will be tonight then.