Fantastic Four reboot

[RIDDICK]

*if you know what I mean...*

 

[Victοr]

-Well, yeah like I said it's silly and sentimental, no denying that, but by quantifiable he meant he could identify and quantify each "moment".
-A black hole is a source of gravity just like any other thing that has mass, and as such, things can orbit around it, furthermore, the process of a black hole sucking something can take millions of years, now imagine if a planet is orbiting one, plenty of time to live on that planet for countless generations and then move on to the next one.
-That's what happens before you even enter the black hole, nobody knows what happens past the event horizon, and there are theories that say black holes may behave differently in the 4th dimension, in my interpretation, Coop and Tars were aided by the 5D humans to cross the event horizon while protecting them from the tidal forces from the black hole.
-It really doesn't contradict any theories though, time can be seen as a dimension outside the spacial dimensions, and when you open the door for 4D or 5D you open the door for infinite dimensions not just 11, based on the point-line-plane postulate, then there's negative time and imaginary time, but it's all purely mathematical and theoretical, therefore, an artistic interpretation of that can't be wrong, much like Arthur C. Clarke's "negative space" can't be wrong.

But the tesseract wasn't watered down, and it had little to do with a Calabi manifold, the tesseract is literally the equivalent of a cube in 4 dimensions, and it was created by the 5D humans in a way a 3D person would understand it, you can even see the corners where it connects with the outside cube but continues infinitely, why a 4D cube? Because that way Coop can interact in the "4th dimension of time" and in the 4th spacial dimension above the 3rd.

I was actually reading about n-dimensional geometry around the time I went to see Interstellar, and as soon as I saw the tesseract I shat my pants.



-But she didn't need to be a genius, she was smart, after Coop was gone I took it she was taken in by Mycocaine and educated at NASA, she just needed the black hole data since half of the work was already done by Mycocaine, I still don't see any problems there.
-Imo it isn't ridiculous, binary is just another language, Coop was texting ayy le blackhole lmao
-I think it was believable that he made that mistake while he was on that bat **** crazy frenzy while monologuing
-I thought it was very well implied the 5D bros put him there.
-You are right, the 5D humans we the descendants from the frozen embryos, they went back to save the people who stayed on earth, but they did need Coop, like I said we can't perceive anything beyond our 3D, that is a fact, the most they could do is hand hold 3D dudes into figuring it out for themselves.

Here's the thing, Nolan doesn't often do "show don't tell", he's always exposition exposition exposition, he clearly went for show don't tell in this one at points where exposition wasn't essential or hell, when what was going on on-screen was obvious, yet he still tried to educate the audience, what I think is, given how most of the complaints about plot holes can actually be very well explained, is that people today are so self-entitled and so proud that that they can't stand someone trying to teach them something, "Hmmm how doez dis hack Nolan dare try to teach me something? Wuts this? is he in a library? Lmao das dumb, is dat poetry? lol how pretentiouz, how psudointelektual lmao".

I remember at the beginning, all sorts of dumb "criticism" like "why do you need to explain why a wormhole is a sphere to an engineer?"

Interstellar was supposed to be a blockbuster, and as such it has some cheese and sentiment, but it is more intelligent than most blockbusters, it was educational, infinitely more educational than any block buster in maybe some decades, and it has quite a tight plot and script, sure, it has flaws but nowhere near as many or as bad as people claim, it's just that Nolan's meme status made people dismiss it without actually knowing what they are dismissing, I swear if 2001 was released today people would say it's boring and pretentious too, I can actually see it "look at those ****** monkey suits, what is that? Negative space? That's stoopid"

Well, evidently you're more well versed in that department so I'm inclining to agree. Truth be told I haven't touched a book about astronomy or quantum physics for about a year now, so I was just going from the bird and pieces I could remember. Still, I can't say that I completely forgive Interstellar. It was merely a "good" movie. Murph becoming an ultra genius was left field for me. Mann not operating the airlock well was kinda convenient. I might not be remembering things correctly since, like I said, I saw it once in the theaters and it left a sour taste in my mouth. Couple it with the 12yo who didn't actually try to learn about these things, but rather just name dropped a few words and played it smartz...

As for the various theories, well, I've read one that says that when you die in the 3D plane you essentially "traverse" it and are transported to higher dimensions. Another says that there are only 11 dimensions (with time being the 12th, I think?). Another that a Calami Yau is how everything would look in such an environment. Another says that there are millions of small dimensions floating all around us, but it takes so much energy to actually "open" them, so they remain "closed". Then there' another which says that a black hole is more than a sphere and we can't really see it's true "form" unless we "occupy" a higher plane. Most don't make much sense and contradict others, but they're still all theories and they're all "right" until proven "wrong".

As for 2001, I do think people hold it in such high regard because they "have to". Personally I still really like it because it has this "atmosphere" of mystery. Also, since we had official Marvel 2001 comic, I can pretend that Kubrick directed a Marvel movie and that the Black Monolith was sent there by the Celestials. So there's that. All in all, I do think it's still great and 30 minute minkeys or not, it's still at the top. It doesn't try to tackle all these theories, but rather took a more "subtle" approach and I liked that. Though I will give Interstellar credit for doing the tesseract quite good. I remember that I felt that it looked a bit strange and not like what I'd read about 4D cubes, but maybe I'm remembering things a bit "wrong". It was visually stunning, so I guess I can kinda forgive that, but it looked a bit more "choose your stage" rather than "time is the is the beginning is the end is the beginning is....".

IMHO Interstellar had problems. Pacing and yes, I still remain unimpressed by certain things and perplexed by others (Murph's uber genius transformation is the "worst" plot hole for me personally) but I guess depending on your POV most have an explaination. I certainly don't want to sound like one of those not-pickers who find even the smallest plot hole in order to make themselves feel smart. The reverse of the 12yo if you will. But I simply do not and never will hold it to such high regard as some do. As a movie, a piece of art, it failed to be interesting and engaging, and that's what matters when you "review" a movie.

Either way, obviously you do know much more about the subject at hand, but in my defense I just finished school so take it easy on me. I used to read about that stuff all the time, but I've had a lot of misfortunes the last year (deaths in the family, hospitals, surgeries) so I kinda "dropped" them and stopped reading about such stuff. Thing is, I didn't know from where to start, so I was always kinda "flying blind" in regards to what I read (we mostly did movement of a 3d object at school). Still, good talk, you don't come across people like you often. Cheers!

 

[GasparZizou]

I've never picked a physics book in my life, wikis and internet articles are all I need most people publish their papers online anyway.

I get you man, I actually rarely talk about interstellar except with people who don't like it I still don't think Murph was a genius, she was just educated and got all the info she needed from Coop.

Yeah I've read something like that too about passing through dimensions as you die, but well that's more metaphysical stuff, and about the 11 dimensions, pocket dimensions and stuff, scientists go crazy thinking about stuff like that, I remember I stared at this gif for like an hour trying to comprehend it, I think I do now but it was tough

Haven't watched 2001 in ages.

Oh man, why do you have to go and say nice things, where do you think you are? We can agree to disagree, but I got a good talk out of it you know your stuff too, but both of us would probably sound like idiots to real physicists

Sorry about your misfortunes, I've had a pretty sheltered life myself, I worry the toughest might yet be ahead of me, Anyway man good talk

 

[Victοr]

I've never picked a physics book in my life, wikis and internet articles are all I need most people publish their papers online anyway.

I get you man, I actually rarely talk about interstellar except with people who don't like it I still don't think Murph was a genius, she was just educated and got all the info she needed from Coop.

Yeah I've read something like that too about passing through dimensions as you die, but well that's more metaphysical stuff, and about the 11 dimensions, pocket dimensions and stuff, scientists go crazy thinking about stuff like that, I remember I stared at this gif for like an hour trying to comprehend it, I think I do now but it was tough

Haven't watched 2001 in ages.

Oh man, why do you have to go and say nice things, where do you think you are? We can agree to disagree, but I got a good talk out of it you know your stuff too, but both of us would probably sound like idiots to real physicists

Sorry about your misfortunes, I've had a pretty sheltered life myself, I worry the toughest might yet be ahead of me, Anyway man good talk

I've seen that gif so many times that I can actually draw it now. I first draw a regular cube, then I erase most of it and add some extra lines. Then I draw the inward-outward cube once or twice but in different "movements" and then I start slowly "erasing" certain lines. It looks kinda cool and it's a nice way to pass your time when you have nothing to do. A Calamic Yau though is almost impossible to draw from memory. All Branes are tough SOBs actually.

Well, I've met "real" physicists who didn't know the difference between a Black Hole and a Wormhole, so I wouldn't say that they're all that educated. A lot simply went there because they had no other option (believe it or not, here a Physicist is an "average mind", with the "top ones" beings medical doctors). But yeah, to a "regular" theoretical physicist this would all sound like a big mess .

Thanks man. I've had a lot of misfortunes throughout all of my life (I've nearly lost both my parents, I've lost countless aunts, uncles, cousins, etc to the Big C) so I've kinda grown "used" to it. Anyway, here's to better days!

 

[Devil_666]

Just to add to this Fant4stic Four discussion (LOLZ)..

The fact that there is a damn planet close to a bloody gargantuan. I don't see how a planet could orbit a gargantuan for any significant amount of time. Especially when it's infinitely "stronger" than a regular Black Hole. It just doesn't make much sense to me, since a Black Hole is basically a large sum of mass that collapses on itself, therefore "sucking" everything.

That's not how black holes theoretically work. And that's the main thing: it's all theory. It's widely accepted, but it's still unproven and not a fact. Most scientist agree that the majority of galaxies out there (including our own Milky Way) have a black hole in the center. Some extremely larger than the one seen in Interstellar (supermassive black holes). It's definitely possible (theoretically, again) for planets, stars, gases and space dust to orbit a black hole with no problem. Just as long as none of it comes close to the event horizon. Which is where a black holes gravity kicks in. Outside of that, it's gravitational pull isn't any stronger than a star with the same mass.

The instant where Matthew's character enters the black hole and isn't ripped to shreds, but actually survives. Most theories I've read support the idea that upon entering a Black Hole you'd be immediately ripped to shreds to the powerful gravity and varying degrees of it.

Again, theories. Since none of them can be proved, how can you say any of them are wrong/right!?

For me, the biggest plot hole in Interstellar is simple: They travel through a black hole and find 3 planets suitable for human life. HOW!? There's no star present.

 

[GasparZizou]

It is possible for planets to be habitable orbiting a black hole and Gargantua's disk provides the light and heat.

Well, I've met "real" physicists who didn't know the difference between a Black Hole and a Wormhole, so I wouldn't say that they're all that educated. A lot simply went there because they had no other option (believe it or not, here a Physicist is an "average mind", with the "top ones" beings medical doctors). But yeah, to a "regular" theoretical physicist this would all sound like a big mess .

Thanks man. I've had a lot of misfortunes throughout all of my life (I've nearly lost both my parents, I've lost countless aunts, uncles, cousins, etc to the Big C) so I've kinda grown "used" to it. Anyway, here's to better days!

So physics there is like business school here

 

[Victοr]

Just to add to this Fant4stic Four discussion (LOLZ)..



That's not how black holes theoretically work. And that's the main thing: it's all theory. It's widely accepted, but it's still unproven and not a fact. Most scientist agree that the majority of galaxies out there (including our own Milky Way) have a black hole in the center. Some extremely larger than the one seen in Interstellar (supermassive black holes). It's definitely possible (theoretically, again) for planets, stars, gases and space dust to orbit a black hole with no problem. Just as long as none of it comes close to the event horizon. Which is where a black holes gravity kicks in. Outside of that, it's gravitational pull isn't any stronger than a star with the same mass.



Again, theories. Since none of them can be proved, how can you say any of them are wrong/right!?

For me, the biggest plot hole in Interstellar is simple: They travel through a black hole and find 3 planets suitable for human life. HOW!? There's no star present.

Well, other times they go for "black hole in the center of the galaxy" and other times for "huge black holes in the center of the universe". And as you said, them being theories I guess the best they could do was just pick a certain theory and roll with it. Heck, I've read a theory that basically says that there are no parallel universies. Basically it's one giant and infinite universe that contains all possible variations and probabilities in various parts of it. Again, it's just a theory, but some sound more "grounded" than others. In the end, it all depends on your POV though. Personally I'm more fond of the "colliding bricks" theory, but as I said, it all depends on your preference at this particular point.

As for the planets, well, I guess you just have to roll with it. Maybe they're suitable for life after certain preparations such as terraforming. But since the 5D humans guided them then maybe they "influenced" the past, so effectively "creating" these planets and placing them at their "positions". Or it's just a "we've got to include a black hole and progress the movie so there's that" case...

 

[fosing]

black hole sustains life.

 

[jye4ever]

I would love to travel thru Uranus.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

I would love to travel thru Uranus.

 

[RIDDICK]

What scientific inaccuracies and plotholes do you mean?

-The love thing was just a silly line, I take it it was more sentimental, not scientific, quantifiable because he had access to every single moment.
-It was orbiting Gargantua, it was eventually going to get sucked by it, it's not like it's gonna happen overnight, or even in centuries or millennia, what's the problem there?
-The 5D humans saved him, also, nobody knows what happens in a black hole, being turned into spaghetti and then into a diamond is just a theory, you can let this one pass.
-You can take time as the 4th dimension, but there's also the 4th dimension of space, above the 3rd, he can't interact in those moments directly because you can't perceive more than 3 dimensions, Murphy can't see anything above the 3rd dimension hence why the 4th dimension was represented as a tesseract, to interact with the 3D world from beyond or above it, which was genius, because the equivalent of a cube in 4 dimensions is a tesseract, have you even seen a 4 or 5 dimensional hypercube? It's barely comprehensible. And yes, at that point there's no beginning and no end, everything is happening at the same time, remember Dr. Manhattan?

Those are not scientific plotholes, as everything there is based on purely theoretical stuff, it's the artistic interpretation of n-dimensional geometry and black holes, you can roll with it.



-By the time she's an adult, based on all the work by Mycocaine and then helped by the data Coop sent to her, what's the problem there? Is it not believable?
-Well, you can transmit a butt load of data with binary, it just takes a little longer but not really that much longer.
-He was ****ing crazy and unstable
-It is plot convenience, but it's also explainable, the stronger gravity is the slower the time passes for Coop and faster for Murph, he was right next to Gargantua.
-Here is where it comes to interpretation, Coop said the 5D guys can't directly affect stuff because they can't pinpoint exact moments, it's clear to me that no matter what humanity was saved, hence why there are 5D humans to begin with, which tells me there's no paradox, then 5D humans came back to save what was left of humanity back then, the people who stayed on Earth and died, and like I said, you can't perceive anything that's going on beyond our 3 dimensions, so they needed a 3D human to figure it out and send the info back.

I don't mean to sound like a pompous prick or one of those 12 year olds you mention but I do love conceptual physics, science fantasy and all that crap, and I've never come with a single substantial Interstellar plot-hole, like a legit one, that makes the movie crumble, there are always nit picks, or things that conceptually people don't understand.

This movie has flaws, but it's mainly minor flaws in the execution of some scenes, nothing really plot breaking, and sure is sentimental as ****, I can understand if you don't like it cause of that, but it has a lot of merit for actually trying to be educational of concepts that are kinda hard to grasp, I thought it was mindblowing cause I love multiverse theories and considering they are on the verge of proving there are physical dimensions above the 3rd one, I'm not one to praise Nolan, but he showed he understood those concepts pretty well, like the wormhole to begin with, it was the 1st time someone didn't show a worm hole like a literal hole/gate, that shows how well Nolan grasped those concepts.

-Well, yeah like I said it's silly and sentimental, no denying that, but by quantifiable he meant he could identify and quantify each "moment".
-A black hole is a source of gravity just like any other thing that has mass, and as such, things can orbit around it, furthermore, the process of a black hole sucking something can take millions of years, now imagine if a planet is orbiting one, plenty of time to live on that planet for countless generations and then move on to the next one.
-That's what happens before you even enter the black hole, nobody knows what happens past the event horizon, and there are theories that say black holes may behave differently in the 4th dimension, in my interpretation, Coop and Tars were aided by the 5D humans to cross the event horizon while protecting them from the tidal forces from the black hole.
-It really doesn't contradict any theories though, time can be seen as a dimension outside the spacial dimensions, and when you open the door for 4D or 5D you open the door for infinite dimensions not just 11, based on the point-line-plane postulate, then there's negative time and imaginary time, but it's all purely mathematical and theoretical, therefore, an artistic interpretation of that can't be wrong, much like Arthur C. Clarke's "negative space" can't be wrong.

But the tesseract wasn't watered down, and it had little to do with a Calabi manifold, the tesseract is literally the equivalent of a cube in 4 dimensions, and it was created by the 5D humans in a way a 3D person would understand it, you can even see the corners where it connects with the outside cube but continues infinitely, why a 4D cube? Because that way Coop can interact in the "4th dimension of time" and in the 4th spacial dimension above the 3rd.

I was actually reading about n-dimensional geometry around the time I went to see Interstellar, and as soon as I saw the tesseract I shat my pants.



-But she didn't need to be a genius, she was smart, after Coop was gone I took it she was taken in by Mycocaine and educated at NASA, she just needed the black hole data since half of the work was already done by Mycocaine, I still don't see any problems there.
-Imo it isn't ridiculous, binary is just another language, Coop was texting ayy le blackhole lmao
-I think it was believable that he made that mistake while he was on that bat **** crazy frenzy while monologuing
-I thought it was very well implied the 5D bros put him there.
-You are right, the 5D humans we the descendants from the frozen embryos, they went back to save the people who stayed on earth, but they did need Coop, like I said we can't perceive anything beyond our 3D, that is a fact, the most they could do is hand hold 3D dudes into figuring it out for themselves.

Here's the thing, Nolan doesn't often do "show don't tell", he's always exposition exposition exposition, he clearly went for show don't tell in this one at points where exposition wasn't essential or hell, when what was going on on-screen was obvious, yet he still tried to educate the audience, what I think is, given how most of the complaints about plot holes can actually be very well explained, is that people today are so self-entitled and so proud that that they can't stand someone trying to teach them something, "Hmmm how doez dis hack Nolan dare try to teach me something? Wuts this? is he in a library? Lmao das dumb, is dat poetry? lol how pretentiouz, how psudointelektual lmao".

I remember at the beginning, all sorts of dumb "criticism" like "why do you need to explain why a wormhole is a sphere to an engineer?"

Interstellar was supposed to be a blockbuster, and as such it has some cheese and sentiment, but it is more intelligent than most blockbusters, it was educational, infinitely more educational than any block buster in maybe some decades, and it has quite a tight plot and script, sure, it has flaws but nowhere near as many or as bad as people claim, it's just that Nolan's meme status made people dismiss it without actually knowing what they are dismissing, I swear if 2001 was released today people would say it's boring and pretentious too, I can actually see it "look at those ****** monkey suits, what is that? Negative space? That's stoopid"

I've never picked a physics book in my life, wikis and internet articles are all I need most people publish their papers online anyway.

I get you man, I actually rarely talk about interstellar except with people who don't like it I still don't think Murph was a genius, she was just educated and got all the info she needed from Coop.

Yeah I've read something like that too about passing through dimensions as you die, but well that's more metaphysical stuff, and about the 11 dimensions, pocket dimensions and stuff, scientists go crazy thinking about stuff like that, I remember I stared at this gif for like an hour trying to comprehend it, I think I do now but it was tough

https://i.imgur.com/I9ambBt.gif

Haven't watched 2001 in ages.

Oh man, why do you have to go and say nice things, where do you think you are? We can agree to disagree, but I got a good talk out of it you know your stuff too, but both of us would probably sound like idiots to real physicists

Sorry about your misfortunes, I've had a pretty sheltered life myself, I worry the toughest might yet be ahead of me, Anyway man good talk

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

 

[jye4ever]

 

[Wor-Gar]

I would love to travel thru Uranus.

I knew Jye would be hiding in here.

 

[jye4ever]

I've never seen so much brown.

Which reminds me, waiting on your Ant-Man review.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Which reminds me, waiting on your Ant-Man review.

Not until this weekend. I'm eager to see it. I expect great things. Great things. But if this guy rides and ant, like "Honey I shrunk the Kids", I'm out. There's no ants in this, right Jye?


BTW, given what we know about the Avengers, what is so 'fantastic' about these four?

 

[karamazov80]

Sounds like you might wanna go see Terminator: Gynysys instead, Wor-Gar.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Sounds like you might wanna go see Terminator: Gynysys instead, Wor-Gar.

Does YJ fly an evil wasp too?

Does the good ant have a showdown with the evil wasp? Like the T-rex vs I-rex?

 

[Biojex]

Not until this weekend. I'm eager to see it. I expect great things. Great things. But if this guy rides and ant, like "Honey I shrunk the Kids", I'm out. There's no ants in this, right Jye?


BTW, given what we know about the Avengers, what is so 'fantastic' about these four?

He rides ants and yells "woo!" While doing it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It's the "woo" that helps make it believable.