Finally, DC Seems To Be Making Burton's Joker Canon! (Spoilers)

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Alright, I am a HUGE fan of Batman '89. It is a very fun and entertining film that I feel is true to Bob Kane's and Bill Finger's original vision of the character. I also loved Jack Nicholson's performance as the Joker, and along with Mark Hamill's version, they are my favorite interpretations of my favorite comic-book villain. While fairly faithful to the Joker character, Burton and writer Sam Hamm tweaked the once mysterious Joker's backstory and turned him into mob-enforcer Jack Napier. The Joker was no longer a sympathetic crook known only as The Red Hood, but almost a full-on psychopath BEFORE turning into The Clown Prince of Crime. For years, DC has seemed to be ashamed of Burton's fleshed out backstory, leaving the Joker's past still shrouded in mystery, until now.

I just read DC's Batman: Confidential #7 and it seems the good people at DC have come to their senses and accepted the film-origin as canon. In he first issue of this all-new arc, the pre-Joker is in fact a criminal, and apparently a killer for a gang, NOT a struggling comedian. His name is officially Jack (no last name is given--yet,) and he makes a reference to Batman's "TOYS" on his utility belt (nice nod to the '89 film). Still, he is much more sympathetic than the Nicholson character, and he is obviously destined for tragedy, so I can't wait to see how this arc turns out. First a Terrance Stamp styled Zod in Richard Donner's run on Action Comics, and now a Jack Napier modeled backstory in Batman: Confidential; thank you DC for going back to the classics and giving the Joker the fleshed-out origin he deserves!

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

Not that I dislike 89 Bats, love it, but I prefer Jokers origin to be a mystery myself. Makes him even scarier and weirder. Almost makes you feel like he's ALWAYS been that way, though logic dictates otherwise. Just me though, I'd rather there be NO backstory, leaves it up to our imagination and gives something to the character a story never could. Sometimes not saying anything is louder.

 

[EVILFACE]

How have they come to their senses? Are they going to make him the killer of Batmans parents as well? The change in the movie was wrong.

I'll take Alan Moore's version over 89 Batman any day.

 

[Darklord Dave]

I'll have to read it, but I preferred the Killing Joke origin myself too. They've made Barbara's injury canon, why not the rest of it?

But Superman's canon keeps changing, why not Bats?

 

[bwayne]

In the Killing Joke, Joker says," If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be mulptiple choice." He was talking with Batman about how he(Joker) once had a bad day that sent him off the deep end. I think this leaves his origin up to interpretation. Even later origins/updates of the Joker have these vairations. I think that sets up the mysterious past for the Joker rather than a definitive this is the one true Joker origin.

 

[Anton Phibes]

I strongly suggest everyone here read the Batman Gotham Knights storyline with Batman and Hush going at each other's throats. It clearly places The Killing Joke Origin "in continuity". None of this stuff is "canon" though, because its all make believe...remember?

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I strongly suggest everyone here read the Batman Gotham Knights storyline with Batman and Hush going at each other's throats. It clearly places The Killing Joke Origin "in continuity". None of this stuff is "canon" though, because its all make believe...remember?

No it's not. It's based on a true story. If they wasn't, they wouldn't have made a movie out of it!

I don't get why fans are so against the Joker having an origin. He's a great character because of who he is and what he does. Knowing his backstory really doesn't make him any less of a great character, it can only add to it. All of the great heroes and villains of film and comics have an in-depth origin: Indiana Jones, James Bond, Darth Vader (okay, bad example!) Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Dr. Doom etc. Why shouldn't Mr. J?

 

[Anton Phibes]

No it's not. It's based on a true story. If they wasn't, they wouldn't have made a movie out of it!

I don't get why fans are so against the Joker having an origin. He's a great character because of who he is and what he does. Knowing his backstory really doesn't make him any less of a great character, it can only add to it. All of the great heroes and villains of film and comics have an in-depth origin: Indiana Jones, James Bond, Darth Vader (okay, bad example!) Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Dr. Doom etc. Why shouldn't Mr. J?

I love the idea of the Joker having an origin...so long as its the Killing Joke. If I saw Alan Moore coming my way, he would probably scare me and I'd cross the street to get away from him. But there's no denying that The Killing Joke is by far and away ONE of the greatest Joker stories ever. It actually made me feel kind of sorry for the poor slob. But only a little.

 

[bwayne]

I think there are certain characters that are more appealing when they have that air of mystery. Wolverine was much more interesting when his backstory was unknown. I think Joker falls in this category. It makes his more interesting when he tells one person one version and another a completely different story. If you look at the Harley Quinn origin from BTAS, he tells her that his father beat him or something in order to gain sympathy and eventually he gets her over to his side.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

I think there are certain characters that are more appealing when they have that air of mystery. Wolverine was much more interesting when his backstory was unknown. I think Joker falls in this category. It makes his more interesting when he tells one person one version and another a completely different story. If you look at the Harley Quinn origin from BTAS, he tells her that his father beat him or something in order to gain sympathy and eventually he gets her over to his side.

Then again, in BTAS he was also called "Jack Napier" and was a gangster who fell into a tank of acid.

 

[bwayne]

Then again, in BTAS he was also called "Jack Napier" and was a gangster who fell into a tank of acid.

But BTAS came out right after the Burton Batman movies and they were forces to use the Devito model for Penguin. I not saying that my logic is perfect.

 

[IrishJedi]

Blah!

Tim Burton's Batman is a pox on humanity. The only reason why they aren't completely skewered is because the Schumacher films were WORSE (with the possible exception of the first third of "Batman Forever" which was better than any of the Burton stuff, imho).

 

[foolkiller]

I'm with the Killing Joke boys. Alan Moore wrote the definitive Batman comic with that one.

 

[bwayne]

Blah!

Tim Burton's Batman is a pox on humanity. The only reason why they aren't completely skewered is because the Schumacher films were WORSE (with the possible exception of the first third of "Batman Forever" which was better than any of the Burton stuff, imho).

The first Burton was the best. Nicholson as Joker was great. Returns was Jar-Jar bad.

 

[JABBATHERIDGE]

I'm confused after reading the recent Hush Returns graphic novel when the Joker saved Riddler from Hush in exchange for information about the man who killed his wife just after he became the Joker, I'd expected DC to eventually build on this story.

Maybe by having the Joker going after the man responsible in some kind of pyschotic clown vegence mission, would've been interesting. I'm guessing now that DC have gone with the Jack Napier origin stuff all that's gonna be abandoned.

Shame but at the end of the day it's not a big deal, comic characters and their origins are constantly getting rewritten.

I also agree though that the Joker being name unknown and past shrouded in mystery makes him seem much cooler.

Kinda like he's evil personified and there is no other name for it.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

I also agree though that the Joker being name unknown and past shrouded in mystery makes him seem much cooler.

Kinda like he's evil personified and there is no other name for it.

Good way to look at it.

Wolvies origin I was ok with me BECAUSE he was always looking for his origin, than we find it. Joker wasn't. He didn't want the past, anything to do with him pre-Joker just doesn't seem to matter. No origin makes him seem crazier and to me more appealing. Also it just makes him seem less than human. That too is a great advantage of his.

 

[JABBATHERIDGE]

The thing is we know the entire history of almost all the other Batman villains Edward Nigma/Riddler and Oswald Cobblepot/Penguin, how they became the creatures they are now, even harking all the way back to their school days in some cases.

I kinda liked the fact that even after years of repeated confrontation the Joker's real name is unknown, makes him a bit special. If you look at the animated series most of the villains had a first episode or origin story but the Joker was always just there.

Like he's at war with Batman and it's an ongoing confrontation with no real beginning and end either.

 

[bwayne]

Wolvies origin I was ok with me BECAUSE he was always looking for his origin, than we find it. Joker wasn't. QUOTE]

Good point. In a few years, some other creator at DC will come up with a new definative origin anyway. That seems to be the trend every few years.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Okay, so I've never read all of the Killing Joke, but I am very familiar with it and have read parts of it (It's not my fault it's been OOP for a couple of years!) I just really love the movie backstory of the Joker.

Sure, making The Joker a sympathetic character before his acid swim makes him more complex, but it doesn't make any sense. The Joker is meant to be a complete sociopath and a human monster, who has no sympathy for others. A comedian who's had a really bad day may go insane and kill a few people out of revenge (like the Phantom of the Opera), but he probably isn't going to become a complete sociopath like the Joker. But a guy like Jack Napier who is ALREADY a mean, nasty mobster, and career criminal, is already half-way there. The chemical bath only "awakens" him and gives him the "freedom" to do whatever he wants.

It seems that with CONFIDENTIAL, DC is paying homage to both origins and yet paving the way for Nolan's vision. Here, he is a professional criminal named Jack (IMO, the most important aspect of Burton's version,) yet he seems a little bit more sympathetic and reluctant (like TKJ version,) and from what I understand, his face will become cut like the Nolan version. Either way, this story arc is looking good, and I hope it continues being so.

 

[JABBATHERIDGE]

I don't usually pick up individual issues of comic books these days (unless its a really big story arc like Countdown).

But once the TPB comes out I'll be tempted to pick it up, the first arc with Batman and Lex Luthor was pretty good.