Frank Miller appreciation thread

[Otomofan]

 

[Otomofan]

(I believe this piece was an elaborate fake, and I've removed it.)

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

That Xerxes cover looks pretty cool

 

[crows]

i wonder how he learned to use shadows like that

 

[Otomofan]

Frank Miller's biggest flop or let-down of his career was The Dark Knight Strikes Again. (Well, that is until a little book called Holy Terror showed up a few years later and REALLY stunk.)

Hype for the DK sequel was through the roof, and I still think it started quite well...that first issue had some great sequences with the Atom and the Flash and was a lot of fun. Ans then issue two and three sucked. You could watch Miller getting more and more bored panel by panel. By the time it limped to its conclusion, nobody cared.

Now there's no saving the story, unfortunately, but I really do think it might be worth at least LOOKING at it in it's raw form. Lynn Varley is the best watercolor colorist in the industry. Unfortunately she chose this book to experiment with computer coloring and that crap was garish and downright ugly.

This week DC is publishing a hardcover called Batman Noir: DKSA. Exactly as is it sounds...just Miller's black and white inks and none of that hideous Varley computer coloring. Now the story is beyond salvaging but I still wanna pick it up for the art alone. It's essentially a late era Sin City style Batman aesthetic. It'll be fun to flip through at the very least, and I think there are entire pages and segments that are gonna look a hell of a lot better.

Whether you loved it, hated it, or just ignored it....doesn't it look so much better in black and white?









Oh an PS....Xerxes issue 1 comes out on Wednesday as well! I think I'll skip the "floppies" and hope for a hardcover down the road with the same dimensions as 300 and Holy Terror so it'll all look nice on my shelf.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Yeah that was an awful series

 

[crows]

what was the problem with holy terror?

 

[Jameson Rook]

what was the problem with holy terror?

 

[Otomofan]

I personally didn't have a problem with Holy Terror's subject matter. Frank stated many many times it was a work of propaganda, not unlike when Superman and Captain America and Bugs Bunny used to beat up Hitler. It came from a place of rage and hurt for him after living in New York for most of his life and dealing with 9-11.

That, combined with his public comments calling the Occupy Wall Street movement a bunch of slackers, officially made him an "unperson" in the minds of millennials and most comic book review sites. He's been called a crazy, cranky, old, out of touch, racist, etc etc etc.

I don't care about any of that. My only problem with Holy Terror was the plot. It made no sense...went nowhere, and just ended abruptly. For something he worked on for about a decade, the art was awfully sloppy and rushed as well.

But the guy clearly has health issues, and I don't mean mentally. He was clearly on death's door a few years ago but thankfully he DOES look healthier these days. I imagine it takes a lot out of him to draw now which is why 95% of his current stuff is very loose and sketchy, but every now and then he sits down and does an amazingly detailed commission.

PS...made it through about 2 minutes of that angry fedora'd nerd literally yelling and screaming about what a horrible human being Frank Miller is cause he doesn't like the cartoons he draws. And apparently there's about 3 hours of this video? Do yourself a favor and don't click.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

I personally didn't have a problem with Holy Terror's subject matter. Frank stated many many times it was a work of propaganda, not unlike when Superman and Captain America and Bugs Bunny used to beat up Hitler. It came from a place of rage and hurt for him after living in New York for most of his life and dealing with 9-11.

That, combined with his public comments calling the Occupy Wall Street movement a bunch of slackers, officially made him an "unperson" in the minds of millennials and most comic book review sites. He's been called a crazy, cranky, old, out of touch, racist, etc etc etc.

I don't care about any of that. My only problem with Holy Terror was the plot. It made no sense...went nowhere, and just ended abruptly. For something he worked on for about a decade, the art was awfully sloppy and rushed as well.

But the guy clearly has health issues, and I don't mean mentally. He was clearly on death's door a few years ago but thankfully he DOES look healthier these days. I imagine it takes a lot out of him to draw now which is why 95% of his current stuff is very loose and sketchy, but every now and then he sits down and does an amazingly detailed commission.

PS...made it through about 2 minutes of that angry fedora'd nerd literally yelling and screaming about what a horrible human being Frank Miller is cause he doesn't like the cartoons he draws. And apparently there's about 3 hours of this video? Do yourself a favor and don't click.

You want a good laugh? Look up the "comic" Linkara (fedora **** in that video) created, The Lightbringer. Fun fact: he both wrote and drew the pages, but credited a fictional artist to make it look more "professional"...

 

[Otomofan]

 

[crows]

I personally didn't have a problem with Holy Terror's subject matter. Frank stated many many times it was a work of propaganda, not unlike when Superman and Captain America and Bugs Bunny used to beat up Hitler. It came from a place of rage and hurt for him after living in New York for most of his life and dealing with 9-11.

That, combined with his public comments calling the Occupy Wall Street movement a bunch of slackers, officially made him an "unperson" in the minds of millennials and most comic book review sites. He's been called a crazy, cranky, old, out of touch, racist, etc etc etc.

I don't care about any of that. My only problem with Holy Terror was the plot. It made no sense...went nowhere, and just ended abruptly. For something he worked on for about a decade, the art was awfully sloppy and rushed as well.

But the guy clearly has health issues, and I don't mean mentally. He was clearly on death's door a few years ago but thankfully he DOES look healthier these days. I imagine it takes a lot out of him to draw now which is why 95% of his current stuff is very loose and sketchy, but every now and then he sits down and does an amazingly detailed commission.

PS...made it through about 2 minutes of that angry fedora'd nerd literally yelling and screaming about what a horrible human being Frank Miller is cause he doesn't like the cartoons he draws. And apparently there's about 3 hours of this video? Do yourself a favor and don't click.

thank you so much bro. i really appreciate it. i was gonna watch later lol, but thank you

 

[ebor]

I realize that this is the Frank Miller appreciation thread...but I just picked up Xerses #1...what a muddled effort by Miller and Co. The writing is weak, and I am not a fan of how his style is represented in this book. Ah the good old days...

 

[Otomofan]

I'm waiting for the hardcover.

I know it's a pale imitation of 300, but I take his health into consideration. This may be the best he's capable of doing now. All of his upcoming projects that have been announced have artists. He's only writing. He's drawing illustrations for that Lady of the Lake novel, but those are basically pin ups.

I hate to morbid but this may be the last actual series he draws. I sure hope not, but it's possible.

I'd rather have crappy Frank Miller than no Frank Miller at all. I'm also very much in the minority that I actually LIKE Holy Terror too. Even though it's a train wreck of a story and the ridiculous inner monologues he's used all these years are exaggerated to the point of campiness....well I still like looking at the pictures cause it's Frank Miller.

Plenty have imitated him over the years, but he's still the original.

It's like my favorite band, Guns N Roses. I paid an insane amount of money last year to see the reunion show. First time I've ever got to see Axl and Slash on the same stage, Slash was freaking amazing, but Axl was fat and his voice is shot. Sure, some younger guy from a cheesy GNR cover band could possibly sound "better" than current Axl, but I don't want to see some nobody up there with Slash. I want the REAL Axl!

Some may disagree and insist that quality is more important, but for a living legend like Frank, I still think his crappiest output is better than some no-namer's best. But, I'm a mega fanboy, so of course I'll think that!

 

[Plastic Bateman]

I'm waiting for the hardcover.

I know it's a pale imitation of 300, but I take his health into consideration. This may be the best he's capable of doing now. All of his upcoming projects that have been announced have artists. He's only writing. He's drawing illustrations for that Lady of the Lake novel, but those are basically pin ups.

I hate to morbid but this may be the last actual series he draws. I sure hope not, but it's possible.

I'd rather have crappy Frank Miller than no Frank Miller at all. I'm also very much in the minority that I actually LIKE Holy Terror too. Even though it's a train wreck of a story and the ridiculous inner monologues he's used all these years are exaggerated to the point of campiness....well I still like looking at the pictures cause it's Frank Miller.

Plenty have imitated him over the years, but he's still the original.

It's like my favorite band, Guns N Roses. I paid an insane amount of money last year to see the reunion show. First time I've ever got to see Axl and Slash on the same stage, Slash was freaking amazing, but Axl was fat and his voice is shot. Sure, some younger guy from a cheesy GNR cover band could possibly sound "better" than current Axl, but I don't want to see some nobody up there with Slash. I want the REAL Axl!

Some may disagree and insist that quality is more important, but for a living legend like Frank, I still think his crappiest output is better than some no-namer's best. But, I'm a mega fanboy, so of course I'll think that!

I get what you're saying, but on the other hand Frank - like a good number of American comic artists of his generation - stole a great deal from Sergio Toppi in his early days. I don't find his work cut from whole enough cloth, so to speak, to defend his recent output.

 

[Otomofan]

If anything, I thought Frank might have cribbed his Sin City black and white style from the artist that did the covers for the KMFDM albums, a guy named Aidan Hughes. Sin City came out right around the same time I would see a lot of this guy's stuff. Maybe it was just one of those coincidences that happens in art and movies where people subconsciously start going in the same direction.

However this very short cartoon ends with a bald tough guy who speaks in 30s crime novel dialogue ending up in the electric chair. Hard not to see a connection to Sin City, isn't it?




Other obvious influences are Alex Toth and a Spanish artist I hadn't really head of until recently, a guy named Jordi Bernet that was apparently kind of unknown to the general comic reading public but was very highly regarded by the artists.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

If anything, I thought Frank might have cribbed his Sin City black and white style from the artist that did the covers for the KMFDM albums, a guy named Aidan Hughes. Sin City came out right around the same time I would see a lot of this guy's stuff. Maybe it was just one of those coincidences that happens in art and movies where people subconsciously start going in the same direction.

However this very short cartoon ends with a bald tough guy who speaks in 30s crime novel dialogue ending up in the electric chair. Hard not to see a connection to Sin City, isn't it?




Other obvious influences are Alex Toth and a Spanish artist I hadn't really head of until recently, a guy named Jordi Bernet that was apparently kind of unknown to the general comic reading public but was very highly regarded by the artists.

Thanks for bringing Aidan Hughes to my attention. Not only is that very reminiscent of Sin City, but the vamp looks a lot like Jessica Rabbit. That must be a cosmic coincidence considering this short and that film released around the same time.

Discovering Sergio Toppi really changed the way I looked at a lot of my favourite artists, including but not limited to Frank, Bill Sienkiewicz and Ashley Wood. They all more or less admit to being "inspired" by Toppi, but after going through his work suddenly they all seem a lot less original. Not that I can really talk because I instantly started stealing ideas from him myself

 

[crows]

If anything, I thought Frank might have cribbed his Sin City black and white style from the artist that did the covers for the KMFDM albums, a guy named Aidan Hughes. Sin City came out right around the same time I would see a lot of this guy's stuff. Maybe it was just one of those coincidences that happens in art and movies where people subconsciously start going in the same direction.

However this very short cartoon ends with a bald tough guy who speaks in 30s crime novel dialogue ending up in the electric chair. Hard not to see a connection to Sin City, isn't it?




Other obvious influences are Alex Toth and a Spanish artist I hadn't really head of until recently, a guy named Jordi Bernet that was apparently kind of unknown to the general comic reading public but was very highly regarded by the artists.

when it comes to movies being similar.
thats because writers or directors have been talking to studios or selling their scripts around and sometimes studios pass on them but decide they liked that idea and make a movie on their own from that idea they just read.

It could be years before the movie comes out that different producers saw these stories or read the scripts. Even if it was a coincidence, in the movie world people are always talking to each other and pitching stuff.

I Do NOT believe that the writer of Hunger games did not know about Battle Royale. I call bullcrap on that. i refuse to believe it was just a coincidence. they must have seen a trailer for it or a poster or something. Sometimes something as tiny as a poster or as a picture.

With Frank Miller and this video, i dont know. I wonder back then at that time, I wonder if artists were talking to each other or i wonder if Miller saw someone's work behind the scenes or if the company he worked for had something to do with other people's works.

I dont know if I believe it would be an exact coincidence like that at the exact same time. specially coming out at the same time like that

 

[Otomofan]

Well stranger things have happened....a guy named Flint Dille gets thanked in the credits for the Dark Knight Returns. Yes, that same Flint Dille that wrote the GI Joe cartoon and Transformers the Movie. They used to hang out in New York in the 80s and shoot the ****. So Frank was connected to comics and animation. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he saw this 30 second cartoon and an element stuck in the back of his head, that he would combine with the crime novels and comics he loved and he'd call the thing Sin City.

I remember seeing this on MTV in the early 90s. It was used as a ID bumper, like "You're watching MTV!" and it was also on their animated anthology show Liquid Television, so it wasn't really that obscure.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I miss Liquid TV