What? Gunn is literally the president of DC studios now. He’s 100% to blame. I think the whole situation pisses people off because he’s axing people like Cavill and then supposedly keeping people like Ezra miller. What a joke.
Future of DC Films (DCEU)
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batfan08
Super Freak
Not really. President or no, “the path of least resistance” and all that? Sometimes it’s easier to try to start from scratch with a young, hopeful, idealistic Superman than have to contend with all the baggage of Snyder’s wankfest (and the entitled fan base that would try to leverage it, including Snyder himself, if you kept everybody from his last go round). Keep in mind that 1.) nothing’s been finalized regarding Gadot, Miller, or any of the Leaguers, really (Momoa’s seemingly going to be Lobo from here on out) and 2.) with Gunn’s outlining a 10-year plan for the new DCU, that would leave us with a 60-year old Batfleck, a 47-year old Wonder Woman, and a 49-year old Cavill by the time it reached its crescendo.
Personally, I don’t feel like Ezra’s getting ****. I think they’re playing the PR bit up to maximize promotion for The Flash before showing them the door. You can get away with Waller and some of the SS stuff surviving a continuity wipeout because, frankly, those stories didn’t have much of an impact in the previous universe regardless.
ironwez20
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Yea I don’t blame gunn at all but blame WB and a bit of Snyder for the division of the fanbase. WB playing catch up to marvel and Snyder for baiting his fanbase with dumb tweets and vague messages instead of actually moving on like he did. A lot to blame here. Not just Gunn. Had Snyder not kept tugging his fans around maybe they’d get over the snyderverse after the Snyder cut and the whole switch to a new era would feel more natural.
batfan08
Super Freak
I’m convinced the guy missed his calling as a cult leader. If he’d just give up on his dream of making mediocre action and sci-fi movies, dude could be the next L. Ron Hubbard.
Yes, really. That decision was 100% his. Starting from scratch isn’t necessarily the best thing to do whenever you’ve already established a fan base and have a decades worth of content that people are invested in. Go read the comments on Gunns most recent Instagram post, literally none of them are positive, not a single one. Regardless of whether or not some of the DC movies were well liked, most would agree that the casting was on point. It just seems very strange to get rid of the one actor that was universally loved and didn’t really get a fair shot of playing a more “comic accurate” version of the character, but yet keep(even if it’s only for the time being) people like Ezra. But none of it really matters, we’ll get another reboot a few years from now once the first wave of these movies bomb.
ironwez20
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Pretty much. The guy relished in the toxicity of his fanbase and never told any of them to relax or stop threatening people. He really kept pushing them and baiting them with tweets and made it seem like he was always coming back when he most likely wasn’t. Like he loved how the wild fans worshipped him and he got off to it lol.
batfan08
Super Freak
Honest question: where was all this love when his movies were coming out? Cause I just remember how everybody and their momma straight up dookied on all of it. BvS was trash, MoS was mid at best, ZSJL was a 4 hour fan edit that went straight to streaming and Whedon’s JL, well…
Now, make no mistake, Cavill’s probably one of the least problematic people in Hollywood, but any love he’s getting is for his off-screen persona as the PC building, dog loving, Warhammer miniature painting Mensch that he is. I remember people pretty unanimously being in the camp that his turn as Superman was about as engaging as watching paint dry.
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Yep, like I mentioned before production value will be cheap and cheerful. I'm envisaging CW on the big screen.
In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they bring in the CW TV Superman actor for live action movies in an attempt to show their cross media connections. Looking at Marvel TV, yeah that'll work really well.....
Also good luck bringing all these quirky fringe characters together in a serious team up event.
Say what you want about Snyder, he at least brought epicness and huge world building to the screen, something Gunn with his "rag tag family building" movies can't do imo.
Ask the thousands of fans on Gunns Twitter and Instagram clamoring for Cavills return.
Man of Steel was awesome, easily up there with some of the best comic book movies ever. BvS was definitely divisive, but I still enjoyed most of it. Zack’s JL was loved by fans and critics alike, trying to undermine it by saying it’s a “four hour streaming fan edit” is laughable.
I don’t recall anyone having an issue with Cavills portrayal as Superman, more so with the writing itself.
batfan08
Super Freak
Just like the “thousands” of fans that won ZSJL the Academy Award fan vote or the “thousands” of fans that spammed the Twitter verse with “restore the Snyderverse” and “release the Snyder Cut?” A loud group of fanboys does not a movement made. And the Snyder Cut was exactly a four hour fan edit. An overlong, vainglorious, self-indulgent experiment that wouldn’t have existed had a desperate-for-content, confused telecom not listened to a bunch of entitled fanboys and given Snyder the $100 million + to finish it.Ask the thousands of fans on Gunns Twitter and Instagram clamoring for Cavills return.
Man of Steel was awesome, easily up there with some of the best comic book movies ever. BvS was definitely divisive, but I still enjoyed most of it. Zack’s JL was loved by fans and critics alike, trying to undermine it by saying it’s a “four hour streaming fan edit” is laughable.
I don’t recall anyone having an issue with Cavills portrayal as Superman, more so with the writing itself.
GaryPool
Super Freak
I can't freaking wait! Incredibly excited for Joker and The Batman 2!
I don't see how it can be a fan edit if it's his movie.
A group of people banded together and organised campaigns. Without them, ZSJL wouldn't have been released and they wouldn't have bagged both Oscars. Even if you hate what they did and what they achieved, it's still a movement.
Jay Virtual
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I love Snyder as a film director and he seems like he's a super cool guy in real life, he has a great eye and I love how tactile his films are and how he knows how to make things look grand. I hate his DC movies. The dude doesn't get Batman, Superman, or most of the other DC heroes and his take on it caused the whole franchise to derail for almost a decade. His take felt more suited as the Justice Lords more than anything and to put that version as the forefront of your mainline universe rather than say maybe an alternate take on the material (I'd love to see a gloomy Superman and murderin' Batman but let those stories have a point!) just feels like it was primed to alienate the fanbase one way or another. And it's not even my opinion either, Synder has openly admit not being a fan of these heroes until Watchmen and TDKR and he really gravitates to the more "adult" sides of the genre which sometimes fans confuse the "adult" as "mature".
Gunn on the other hand, has openly admitted being a fan of Bruce Timm's DCAU just like Matt Reeves has and that's a GOOD thing as there is a crap load of stuff they could take from those shows as inspiration for their new DCU. With this announcement he's clearly trying to take things slow, heck as a Batman fanatic I'd say sit him out for awhile as I really would like to see Pattionson's version come to a close before we get overexposed with more Batman. Heck, I'd love to see Synder returning for say, an animated JL movie with his old cast back, and maybe go as dark as he wants too without restrictions-- maybe he can finally make that scene where Batman gets raped in prison too.*
*An old Zack Snyder interview perfectly captures why the new Batman movie is such a disaster.
While none of us really knows who is to blame for removing Cavill, it is a pretty strong coincidence that the news of him and Rock being done roughly coincided with Gunn and Safrin taking over. But whoever is responsible, I agree with your sentiment here. I thought Cavill was competent Superman casting, he clearly worked hard at it, and the fault of the movies being horrible, mediocre garbage don't fall on his shoulders.
Is he the perfect, ideal casting decision for me? No, but pretty dang good. And in other films he has been solid, particularly that Mission Impossible movie and Man from UNCLE. But there are many, many, many talented actors out there who could bring a new and interesting take on the most important comic book character there ever was or ever will be.
As for Crisis, frankly, I'm hoping the Flash movie is the closest we get to that for a very long time, because the crux of the Crisis story was rebooting the comics, and it seems like the approach Gunn and Safran are taking is that this is the reboot that they will be sticking with for, at least, 8-10 years.
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rogbngp
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My take from interviews I've watched is that like so many of us who grew up with superheroes as children, he did innocently love the characters as a kid. But by adulthood the project of deconstruction that Alan Moore and Frank Miller articulated with Watchmen and TDKR in 1986 resonated with him. But note that he says that when he was conceiving of Man of Steel he wanted to deconstruct Superman--and by extension all superheroes, i.e., superhero mythology--but at the end of the process still "make it okay to love this" meaning superhero mythology. Note that in Watchmen Snyder gives the superheroes a definite "cool" factor that is not present in Moore's comic run. Moore wanted to show superhero mythology as ultimately pathetic. Snyder reaches a different conclusion than Moore did. Moore thinks it's pathetic that adults escape into childish fantasies about superheroes when there are so many real problems in the world that are ignored. Snyder looks at the superheroes through the lens of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, with superheroes existing as archetypes, etc., and sees them as vessels for psychological projections of both good and bad. Anyway, if I can find the interview where he talks about "I want it to be okay to still love this... to love Superman..." after being deconstructed, I'll post it.
https://comicbookmovie.com/justice-...se-and-dceus-fed-up-journey-a200169#gs.osxwdo
"I wanted to take care of these characters. We all know it's been a f***ed up road for many of them, for the past few years and I really thought it is a challenge, but I think it's a possibility to create something really wonderful with these characters," he said (via Screen Rant). "The history has been sh*t! It's been a real f***ed up journey for DC."
"We had the DCEU, which then became the Joss Whedon Justice League but it also became the Snyderverse, which became this. And then we have Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman 2, which doesn't even match what happened in Wonder Woman 1 and then we have the Arrowverse and even us coming in with The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker."
"What is it exactly? And all of a sudden Bat-Mite's a real guy," Gunn added. "So how can we take these things together and make them make sense and have them unified and have them be one real universe - one real world."
"I wanted to take care of these characters. We all know it's been a f***ed up road for many of them, for the past few years and I really thought it is a challenge, but I think it's a possibility to create something really wonderful with these characters," he said (via Screen Rant). "The history has been sh*t! It's been a real f***ed up journey for DC."
"We had the DCEU, which then became the Joss Whedon Justice League but it also became the Snyderverse, which became this. And then we have Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman 2, which doesn't even match what happened in Wonder Woman 1 and then we have the Arrowverse and even us coming in with The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker."
"What is it exactly? And all of a sudden Bat-Mite's a real guy," Gunn added. "So how can we take these things together and make them make sense and have them unified and have them be one real universe - one real world."
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
My opinion on all of this is: yawn.
I really don't care.
I got three brilliant movies (MoS, BvS and ZSJL) and two good/entertaining ones (WW, AM).
I also got two more (unrelated) great movies in The Batman and Joker.
I got Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.
That's good enough for me.
If anything good comes out of Gunn's involvement, then that'll be great as well. But out of that whole "plan", I'm only intrigued by the Lanterns in a "true Detective" type of story. That does sound interesting. Not sure how they would pull it off, though. Sounds much more like Batman territory.
I really don't care.
I got three brilliant movies (MoS, BvS and ZSJL) and two good/entertaining ones (WW, AM).
I also got two more (unrelated) great movies in The Batman and Joker.
I got Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.
That's good enough for me.
If anything good comes out of Gunn's involvement, then that'll be great as well. But out of that whole "plan", I'm only intrigued by the Lanterns in a "true Detective" type of story. That does sound interesting. Not sure how they would pull it off, though. Sounds much more like Batman territory.
I’m just happy someone making these films is finally looking to Grant Morrison for inspiration instead of yet another Frank Miller adaptation.
lordnastrond
The Spirit of Darkness
Easily the two properties I am actually really really excited for.
lordnastrond
The Spirit of Darkness
Yeah - I am not excited at all for Gunn's slate, it seems to be yet ANOTHER hard-reboot/soft-reboot frankenstein's monster of franchises, continuities, ideas and directions.
Yet another "10 year plan" that doesn't have the guts to just burn down everything that came before and starting with a fresh palette.
We ditch Cavil and Affleck but keep Miller??? Is this a joke?
A brand new Superman with a (somehow) young new Batman that inexplicably already has Damian Wayne as his Robin, meaning that either this Batman goes through Robins like Kleenex or they are going to skip 4 infinitely more popular DC characters to get to Hit-Girl's brattier less likeable male counterpart?
Seriously WHO was asking for Creature Commandos.....
No one wants a Green Lantern tv series set on Earth
The Amazons are okay, but a whole TV show about them that won't feature Wonder Woman but will keep Gadot's movies canon? (including the dreadful WW84)
BOOSTER GOLD gets a project before the key characters of DC????
This surely would satisfy no one.
Its clear what DC needs and to quote a great man.....
Just kill it all off and start again with every hero young and relatively new in their roles and move forward
Yet another "10 year plan" that doesn't have the guts to just burn down everything that came before and starting with a fresh palette.
We ditch Cavil and Affleck but keep Miller??? Is this a joke?
A brand new Superman with a (somehow) young new Batman that inexplicably already has Damian Wayne as his Robin, meaning that either this Batman goes through Robins like Kleenex or they are going to skip 4 infinitely more popular DC characters to get to Hit-Girl's brattier less likeable male counterpart?
Seriously WHO was asking for Creature Commandos.....
No one wants a Green Lantern tv series set on Earth
The Amazons are okay, but a whole TV show about them that won't feature Wonder Woman but will keep Gadot's movies canon? (including the dreadful WW84)
BOOSTER GOLD gets a project before the key characters of DC????
This surely would satisfy no one.
Its clear what DC needs and to quote a great man.....
Just kill it all off and start again with every hero young and relatively new in their roles and move forward
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