GBU or Once Upon a Time in the West

[jye4ever]

The finale is the crowning glory of the film.

Leone loves to take his time, but the timing is always perfect.

The way Eli runs, combined with the camera movement, conjures up a mass of emotions - his excitement, his disbelief that he's finally at the goal, and yet the overwhelming nature of just how many grave markers there are to search.

The moment that always gets me is when Blondie throws the spade at Tuco, and it looks like it was so close to taking Eli's hand off.

Listening to the audio commentary Eli said that the money bag was coated in acid so it would react in a certain way when he cut it open. He ended up drinking some of it by accident because it had been put into a bottle of pop he liked. He drank two pints of milk to try to neutralise it, but was so furious he said he'd had enough and wouldn't finish the film. Sergio eventually persuaded him otherwise, but both Eli and Clint said that there was virtually no health and safety on the sets of these films. They had to really look out for themselves.

A movie about the US west made in Spain by mostly non english speaking european filmmakers and crew translated to the cast on a shoestring budget had no business being that great yet here we are BAM masterpiece!

****!

 

[Asta]

A movie about the US west made in Spain by mostly non english speaking european filmmakers and crew translated to the cast on a shoestring budget had no business being that great yet here we are BAM masterpiece!

****!

Leone + Morricone was a magical combination.

Then add Eastwood, Wallach and Van Cleef.

It's also amazing that the actors took it so seriously, since on the surface the Dollars films were essentially low budget European copies of Hollywood.

But it was the Leone effect. I think he was the only Italian director that managed to pull it off in a way that caught the imagination of American audiences.

The people that worked with him said that he never even had story boards. He worked it all out in his head beforehand, and then remembered exactly how each scene should be filmed. He didn't even speak English, so had to direct through interpreters, or in French since Eli knew a little of that.

I rewatched A Fistful of Dollars the other night, followed by a watch with the commentary on. To illustrate just how popular that film was, there's the story of how Kurosawa sued Leone for copying Yojimbo without permission. They reached a settlement whereby Kurosawa would get the Japanese rights, and he ended up making more money from A Fistful of Dollars than he did from any of his own films!

 

[jye4ever]

Leone + Morricone was a magical combination.

Then add Eastwood, Wallach and Van Cleef.

It's also amazing that the actors took it so seriously, since on the surface the Dollars films were essentially low budget European copies of Hollywood.

But it was the Leone effect. I think he was the only Italian director that managed to pull it off in a way that caught the imagination of American audiences.

The people that worked with him said that he never even had story boards. He worked it all out in his head beforehand, and then remembered exactly how each scene should be filmed. He didn't even speak English, so had to direct through interpreters, or in French since Eli knew a little of that.

I rewatched A Fistful of Dollars the other night, followed by a watch with the commentary on. To illustrate just how popular that film was, there's the story of how Kurosawa sued Leone for copying Yojimbo without permission. They reached a settlement whereby Kurosawa would get the Japanese rights, and he ended up making more money from A Fistful of Dollars than he did from any of his own films!

Omg that’s hilarious regardless AK!

What Leone pulled off with genre movies was never repeated again by another filmmaker from Italy.

Dario Argento tried with horror but most if not all of his movies sucked as did Fulci and Bava sorry giallo horror fans.

Their movies are painful to sit thru.

Gory for their time…yes of course…but painfully bad nonetheless.

Suspiria started good but that 3rd act is embarrassing to watch lol

 

[Asta]

Omg that’s hilarious regardless AK!

What Leone pulled off with genre movies was never repeated again by another filmmaker from Italy.

Dario Argento tried with horror but most if not all of his movies sucked as did Fulci and Bava sorry giallo horror fans.

Their movies are painful to sit thru.

Gory for their time…yes of course…but painfully bad nonetheless.

Suspiria started good but that 3rd act is embarrassing to watch lol

I have to be in the right mood for Argento. A few years ago I tracked down and binged a dozen of his films. They were a real mixed bag. Some are quite striking cinematically, while others are very weak.

 

[jye4ever]

I have to be in the right mood for Argento. A few years ago I tracked down and binged a dozen of his films. They were a real mixed bag. Some are quite striking cinematically, while others are very weak.

My infantile brain from 14 to 20 thought that gore in movies was all that mattered if they weren’t gory I wanted no part of them so seeking out those giallo movies pre internet days was a priority lol

 

[jye4ever]

The female protagonist is so awesome in West she tells Cheyenne go ahead bend me over and please yourself bring your friends if you like I don’t care!

She gets called Tramp/Whore quite a bit!

I am surprised this movie still exists because Cheyenne’s main lesson to her at the end is that in life when men smack her ass she just needs to shrug it off and then he smacks her ass lol

 

[Asta]

The female protagonist is so awesome in West she tells Cheyenne go ahead bend me over and please yourself bring your friends if you like I don’t care!

She gets called Tramp/Whore quite a bit!

I am surprised this movie still exists because Cheyenne’s main lesson to her at the end is that in life when men smack her ass she just needs to shrug it off and then he smacks her ass lol

Chris Frayling, who wrote a biography of Leone, said that while he was a great fan of his films he admitted that Leone's treatment of women was Neanderthal.

Leone often imagined them only as either madonna's or whores.

Marisol in A Fistful of Dollars was a madonna, literally married to Joseph with a son called Jesus.

Jill in Once Upon a Time was more complex. She was a ex-whore who was destined to become a mother, until her future family is murdered. From that point on she determines to forge a new path. She's now destined to become a wealthy and powerful matriarch of the town that will grow around the station

Cheyenne's harsh advice is about survival. In this wild frontier she will have to be both mother and whore. A mother to the men, some of whom will regard her as a whore. She needs to understand that and accept it.

That reflects Leone's view of women in the old west, because he rejected the Hollywood ideals. He imagined women would have to be tough to survive, and would therefore have to suffer indignities. It was better that they didn't count on respect and just accept the way things were.

There was also that uncomfortable scene where it looks like Harmonica was going to rape her. Instead he rips the lace from her dress. The lesson here, I suppose, is that this is no place for finery, fashion, or prettying herself up in a way that will attract unwanted attention from men. It's a harsh lesson, showing her how tough her future will be if she's to survive.

Cheyenne's advice is to be whore, while Harmonica's is to be a mother.

Both instances are quite awkward, and very unsubtle.

But then Leone likes to shock and have his characters sometimes appear out of character. Such as Blondie in GBU, who's labelled 'The Good', yet he suddenly decides to strand Tuco in the desert after rescuing him for the last time. Simply because Tuco's bounty will be never be any higher, and as such it's not worth the risk continuing their scam.

 

[jye4ever]

Chris Frayling, who wrote a biography of Leone, said that while he was a great fan of his films he admitted that Leone's treatment of women was Neanderthal.

Leone often imagined them only as either madonna's or whores.

Marisol in A Fistful of Dollars was a madonna, literally married to Joseph with a son called Jesus.

Jill in Once Upon a Time was more complex. She was a ex-whore who was destined to become a mother, until her future family is murdered. From that point on she determines to forge a new path. She's now destined to become a wealthy and powerful matriarch of the town that will grow around the station

Cheyenne's harsh advice is about survival. In this wild frontier she will have to be both mother and whore. A mother to the men, some of whom will regard her as a whore. She needs to understand that and accept it.

That reflects Leone's view of women in the old west, because he rejected the Hollywood ideals. He imagined women would have to be tough to survive, and would therefore have to suffer indignities. It was better that they didn't count on respect and just accept the way things were.

There was also that uncomfortable scene where it looks like Harmonica was going to rape her. Instead he rips the lace from her dress. The lesson here, I suppose, is that this is no place for finery, fashion, or prettying herself up in a way that will attract unwanted attention from men. It's a harsh lesson, showing her how tough her future will be if she's to survive.

Cheyenne's advice is to be whore, while Harmonica's is to be a mother.

Both instances are quite awkward, and very unsubtle.

But then Leone likes to shock and have his characters sometimes appear out of character. Such as Blondie in GBU, who's labelled 'The Good', yet he suddenly decides to strand Tuco in the desert after rescuing him for the last time. Simply because Tuco's bounty will be never be any higher, and as such it's not worth the risk continuing their scam.

Well ripping off her scarf to reveal more cleavage was going to have the complete opposite effect lol

Btw Cardinale > Bardot

 

[Asta]

Well ripping off her scarf to reveal more cleavage was going to have the complete opposite effect lol

It is a strange paradox. As Leone was playing with the appearance of rape, which was really a brutal act of protection, he was maybe also playing with the idea that the mother and whore are inseparable. The show of cleavage is at once a temptation for some, but also a maternal symbol as it is in religious iconography.

I found the following quotes from Patrick McGee's From Shane to Kill Bill: Rethinking the Western (2007), which attempt to make sense of the scene:

...Jill arrives in McBain's Sweetwater . . . wearing the fine clothes . . . that apparently her profession has enabled her to afford. Then Harmonica literally recuts her dress by tearing off the long sleeves and lace in a series of gestures that look like rape but turn out to be his attempt to mold her into some kind of superpeasant, whose now partially exposed breasts suggest her maternal relation to the new social order that is struggling to be born out of the masculine desert. (182, 183)

Harmonica cannot be killed because in some sense he is already dead. But, for the same reason, he is not really capable of love and the communal social identity that love makes possible. Yet he fosters such a community in his attempt to shape Jill into the kind of revolutionary subject he cannot be. After he recuts her fancy dress in the scene that resembles a rape, he tells her to fetch him some water from the well because he likes his water fresh. Though this request is actually a stratagem that enables him to gun down the men Frank has sent to kill Jill, it also articulates symbolically his relation to Jill, since he is part of death's landscape that only Jill's water can revive. Even Frank recognizes a tremendous life force in Jill that makes him regret having to kill her. In this respect, Frank, Cheyenne, and Harmonica share the same death drive that finds its only possible reversal in Jill's vitality, which takes the form of sexual pleasure for Frank, coffee for Cheyenne, and water for Harmonica. (185)

 

[greatlakes6]

**** my mind can’t comprehend how something so perfect can come out of 3 guys at a cemetery.

How how does one take the simple act of running in a cemetery and turn it into something so freaking timeless and epic with no cgi or hundreds of millions of dollars.

One of my favorite scenes of all time. The running with the music and cinematography is absolute genius.

 

[jye4ever]

It is a strange paradox. As Leone was playing with the appearance of rape, which was really a brutal act of protection, he was maybe also playing with the idea that the mother and whore are inseparable. The show of cleavage is at once a temptation for some, but also a maternal symbol as it is in religious iconography.

I found the following quotes from Patrick McGee's From Shane to Kill Bill: Rethinking the Western (2007), which attempt to make sense of the scene:

Thank you for this.

The ending always confused me because in a way it looks like harmonica actually returns back to her when he is bringing Cheyenne to get butied do you see it that way or does it look like he really left lol

 

[Asta]

Thank you for this.

The ending always confused me because in a way it looks like harmonica actuslly returns back to her when he is bringing Cheyenne to get butied do you see it that way or does it look like he really left lol

You see the train stop at the new station, then Harmonica is shown riding away with the train in the background. So I don't think he was returning with Cheyenne's body. I don't think he even looks back. He seems to be a drifter, rather than a settler. A symbol of the old west.

Jill represents the new west. When she goes out to the workers they begin to gather around her until she's hidden from view. I see it as symbolic of her being not only being accepted, but actively encouraged to stay, build the town, and make something of her life.

 

[jye4ever]

You see the train stop at the new station, then Harmonica is shown riding away with the train in the background. So I don't think he was returning with Cheyenne's body. I don't think he even looks back. He seems to be a drifter, rather than a settler. A symbol of the old west.

Jill represents the new west. When she goes out to the workers they begin to gather around her until she's hidden from view. I see it as symbolic of her being not only being accepted, but actively encouraged to stay, build the town, and make something of her life.

Yeah that makes more sense I mean he did say “someday” really meaning “never” and she knew that but I thought maybe Cheyenne’s death might’ve triggered something in him to change his mind but I think you are right.

 

[Asta]

Yeah that makes more sense I mean he did say “someday” really meaning “never” and she knew that but I thought maybe Cheyenne’s death might’ve triggered something in him to change his mind but I think you are right.

The music makes the ending very melancholy, even though Jill is smiling as if already looking at a life beyond Harmonica.

It was intimated that either Cheyenne or Harmonica could be potential husbands, but that was when she was still looking for security. Marrying them would've tied her to the old world, but the impetus of Once Upon a Time in the West is forward looking, with the railroad, and the growth of towns and cities.

Jill and Harmonica occupy different and incompatible worlds, the new and the old. The living and the dead. She's full of life, yet he's so reserved he's almost a ghost. At the beginning of the film he arrives on the train. Yet he isn't seen getting off it, which is a significant disconnect between the two worlds. He only comes into view as it departs, heralded by the haunting wail of the harmonica.

At the end he's riding away from the train, not even looking back. A dead man conveying the body of a dead comrade back into the wilderness.

 

[Stront]

Fantastic stuff guys, really enjoyed reading these little bits of insight.

 

[matticus]

The female protagonist is so awesome in West she tells Cheyenne go ahead bend me over and please yourself bring your friends if you like I don’t care!

She gets called Tramp/Whore quite a bit!

I am surprised this movie still exists because Cheyenne’s main lesson to her at the end is that in life when men smack her ass she just needs to shrug it off and then he smacks her ass lol

Or in High Plains Drifter where he takes the town whore to the barn and rapes her there, although she egged him on. "You could use a lesson in manners." Has the town folks paint their town red. That was some crazy ****. You won't see movies like that anymore.