Of course. We are one big happy fleet.
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General Trek discussion
- Thread starter DParga21
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Come on, spit it out. We asked for the specifics. Without specifics your coming off as a bit unhinged as you wildly defend a position nobody knows.
"this is woke but I won't say specifically why!" Just comes off as crazy. If you can't share your position I'd ask you stop talking because right now you're saying a whole lotta nothing specific. You don't appear to know yourself.
A request for examples to illustrate your sincerely held opinions is not a trap.
Skyroes
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No offence intended here, but is it that important to you? Is the pestering really needed?
He said his peace already, you’re free to disagree. The suggestion that he should “stop talking” is not very “inclusive” is it?
I find piling on someone over such an insignificant thing (a tv show) very unnecessary.
thedarkknight
Super Freak
No he didn't. He left it to everyone's imagination. Could be anything. The casting could be woke because it has someone with hair too blonde.
Also it's not about being inclusive. That has nothing to do with anything here, as far as I know, because he never said what he meant specifically.
Maybe we should just go back to trashing Section 31 again. 
I'd have to watch it first to participate. No thank you.Maybe we should just go back to trashing Section 31 again.
DParga21
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Maybe we should just go back to trashing Section 31 again.
Agreed.
I find that the people this upset about Trek being "woke" aren't really looking at it through a rational lens.
There is certainly room for debate and modern trek's heading of these topics (I hated how they handled Adira, for instance), but a blanket handwave of "Oh, I hate that Trek went woke" just displays a fundamental lack of understanding of what has always made Star Trek different from just about every other popular franchise in existence.
Well, yes, surely I've made my meaning plain.
But clearly some want to continue to carp and to pretend they don't understand. I get it. Unfortunately not much these days can be separated from politics, including religion; and Star Trek which is largely a Hollywood-of-today product is no exception. And I know the political leanings of the majority of Trek fans, particularly the younger ones. A generalization this, yes, but a common sense observation that cannot be refuted. Just search Star Trek online and include political search words. I remember being taken aback, surprised (I should not have been) one day when Youtube-ing this video of the main TNG cast, at least one half dozen, sitting on a stage in Q&A with their audience. I remember, Spiner, Sirtis, Riker I think, I can't remember all of them. Their collective political viewpoints were not at all subtle or benign. In fact it seemed to dominate the conversation. Shatner was also present, he was sitting on the far end stage right. He was comparatively quiet in atypical fashion.
So, the slow "evolution" to a thoroughly woke Trek didn't happen overnight nor did it start with Discovery or the latest movie fiasco, but it has certainly accelerated in the past few years to where we find ourselves today. If this is where you want Star Trek to be, then enjoy. But once again, I am hoping that now that the pendulum has reached amplitude, it will head back toward a centrist position.
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Your general meaning has been made plain, I agree. Your viewpoint is largely indistinguishable from a vocal portion of modern Trek detractors, and easy to wrap my head around, even if I disagree.
However, you brought up "DEI casting" in the generally better received 1990s shows, DS9 and Voyager. This stood out. My curiosity got the better of me.
I am still very interested to know which minority actors from those shows you feel did not deserve their roles. Which characters would have been better played by white men? If you do not care to name names, so be it. I will embrace the mystery.
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That is a wise decision.
DParga21
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I do try to watch everything from Star Trek at least once. If for no other reason than to have an informed opinion.
I'm currently working my way through TAS, which I had never seen any episodes of.
I'm happy for you that you can 'wrap your head around' my viewpoint. You have spent much energy to rebut or at least toy with an idea that you clearly dismiss as pedestrian and indistinguishable from the babble of those with whom you disagree. I am honored.
As the lemmings approached the sea, a one-track thought permeated: Move on! Ignore the little voice in your head!
Dingobuzz269
Super Freak
"You're all sheeple!" cried the sheeple.
I like Kirk as much as the next Trekkie, but Shatner is not Kirk, and taking a 93 year old actor's word as gospel on what is "woke" and what "woke" means in the modern day might not make your argument the irrefutable powerhouse you think it is. Especially since you can't seem to explain your arguments past "WOKE=BAD=DEI=WOKE".
The only Kirk you remind me of is Charlie.
I guess I can quote you on that, yes?
I know you are but what am I?
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Dingobuzz269
Super Freak
Yes, you can.
Just because Shatner played Kirk 60 years ago doesn't mean he has the same ideals Kirk has/had, nor does it mean he's even remotely in touch with what's going on it today's world. To try to support your anti-"woke" argument 1) without explaining what you mean by it (i.e. you can't seem to explain the word without using the word), and 2) using what the nonagenarian actor who played a character over half a century ago says against it, is not going to win you any arguments.
I am not here to present an 'argument' for you or for anyone else. I couldn't care less about convincing you or those who seem to celebrate the political vehicle that Star Trek has become and thusly the quality that it has lost. That would be futile. Likewise, Shatner understands with whom he is dealing, I'm sure. He knows that source is everything. He couldn't care less that you and others with such ideas dismiss him as a 'nonagenarian actor who played a character over half a century ago, completely out of touch with what's going on it today's world.' By the way, that incredibly disrespectful and insulting allegation is very rich and in itself speaks volumes.
I have presented my belief of how Star Trek has graduated so far into wokeism that many fans are left to wonder, what happened. Anyone who denies this phenomenon will do so regardless of how deeply or thoroughly I or anyone else burrows into the autopsy for the details.
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DParga21
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"Many" is intentionally vague. That's why certain politicians love to say "Many people are saying (insert idea here)". How much is "many"? A dozen? A hundred? It doesn't really mean anything.
All we have to go by empirically is the data. And the data is:
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