Goku vs. Superman

[Niltusk]

After reading through a few sites on Goku's abilities and how his battles have gone, I voted Superman all day long.

 

[Solidus]

So does Superman.

I don't think Supes comics are boring, are you kidding? For that matter do you think every other comic is boring? Or even the DB manga? I challenge you to watch anything following Frieza's Saga and not fall asleep

DB was good in it's time, but it didn't age well, too many plot holes.

Yes, the new 52 is a restart of all the franchises, still, the main traits remain in the character, that includes being able to learn how to perform a surgery and learn 10 years worth of medical education in seconds, that's right, seconds.

You obviously don't know much about him Pliss

Well, Superman comics aren't really known for their great dialogs and that's why I find them boring . Geoff Johns is now the creative director of DC Comics, and he is notorious for having a hard-on for Superman. "Superman perform surgery and learning 10 years worth of medical education in 10 seconds", you say? That's sounds exactly like the type of nonsense that Johns would approve of.

The problem with Superman (unlike Goku in DBZ), is that there are just too many story arcs, retcons, and universes that try to add things to his character - that will eventually be retconned out anyway. So, in order to make an appropriate analysis of who's better, you'll have to contemplate the defining characteristics of both Superman and Goku.

Now, with that said, the only defining characteristics of Superman (regardless of who's writing the comics) are: super-human strength, x-ray vision, the ability to fly at super-sonic speeds, and weakness to Kryptonite. Based on that alone, I'd say that Goku has the superior edge over Supes any day of the week - especially since Goku has several different levels of Super Saiyan transformations, each of which exponentially increases his strength.

I haven't read the DBZ manga, by the way. I heard that the anime seems to follow it closely enough .

 

[Snake Plissken]

After reading through a few sites on Goku's abilities and how his battles have gone, I voted Superman all day long.

Reading and seeing are too different things.

Superman comics are not known for their great dialogs and that's why I find them boring . Geoff Johns is now the creative director of DC Comics, and he is notorious for a hard-on for Superman. Having "Superman perform surgery and learning 10 years worth of medical education in 10 seconds", you say? That's sounds exactly like the type of nonsense that Johns would approve of.

The problem with Superman (unlike Goku in DBZ), is that there are just too many story arcs, retcons, and universes that try to add things to his character - that will eventually be retconned out anyway. So, in order to make an appropriate analysis of who is better, you'll have to contemplate the defining characteristics of both Superman and Goku.

Now, with that said, the only defining characteristics of Superman (regardless of who's writing the comics) are: super-human strength, x-ray vision, the ability to fly at super-sonic speeds, and weakness to Kryptonite. Based on that alone, I'd say that Goku has the superior edge over Supes any day of the week - especially since Goku has several different levels of Super Saiyan transformations, each of which exponentially increases his strength.

I haven't read the DBZ manga, by the way. I heard that the anime seems to follow it closely enough .

Goku had to be built on. He wasn't started super strong, than made god like, than made super duper strong, than god like, than super strong, than super duper strong again

The Anime is verbatim the Manga, just more stretched out. If you watched all of it, you read the manga. Although if you watched the Funimation dub, there is key dialogue left out.

 

[Snake Plissken]

After reading through a few sites on Goku's abilities and how his battles have gone, I voted Superman all day long.

Not Goku, but an example of power. This was in the mid point of the series and the characters get 1,000s of times stronger later on.

[ame]https://youtu.be/IZg_fRvqEks[/ame]

 

[Niltusk]

Reading and seeing are too different things.

Nah, its called fiction for a reason fanboi.

 

[GasparZizou]

Well, Superman comics aren't really known for their great dialogs

That's not at all true Solidus, that's not the reason why so many Superman comics win awards all the time.

The problem with Superman (unlike Goku in DBZ), is that there are just too many story arcs, retcons, and universes that try to add things to his character - that will eventually be retconned out anyway. So, in order to make an appropriate analysis of who is better, you'll have to contemplate the defining characteristics of both Superman and Goku.

That's true, it's just easier to compare each version of Supes to Goku, still Supes would win with most versions.

Now, with that said, the only defining characteristics of Superman (regardless of who's writing the comics) are: super-human strength, x-ray vision, the ability to fly at super-sonic speeds, and weakness to Kryptonite. Based on that alone, I'd say that Goku has the superior edge over Supes any day of the week - especially since Goku has several different levels of Super Saiyan transformations, each of which exponentially increases his strength.

I haven't read the DBZ manga, by the way. I heard that the anime seems to follow it closely enough .

You can't just choose the traits or the intensity of the traits that suit your argument, that's cheating

 

[GasparZizou]

Goku had to be built on. He wasn't started super strong, than made god like, than made super duper strong, than god like, than super strong, than super duper strong again

Superman had to be built on too, it just happens that his stories are restarted every couple of decades, in fact, they're not retconned.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Superman had to be built on too, it just happens that his stories are restarted every couple of decades, in fact, they're not retconned.

But Superman doesn't know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

 

[GasparZizou]

But Superman doesn't know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

I allege defeat.

 

[Biojex]

Goku would whoop superman in an eating contest

 

[Solidus]

That's not at all true Solidus, that's not the reason why so many Superman comics win awards all the time.

I'd argue that's due to much of the industry having a bias toward Superman.

You can't just choose the traits or the intensity of the traits that suit your argument, that's cheating

You know what's cheating? Having Superman's abilities change every ten seconds to fit whatever hair-brained reboot, or whatever else that DC has planned . So if you want to make a fair argument, then decide on which version of Superman you'd want to pit against Goku. Or, if you want to generalize things (like the intent of this thread), then talk about the characteristics of Supes that are present in all of his storylines.

 

[Snake Plissken]

You know what's cheating? Having Superman's abilities change every ten seconds to fit whatever hair-brained reboot, or whatever else that DC has planned . So if you want to make a fair argument, then decide on which version of Superman you'd want to pit against Goku. Or, if you want to generalize things (like the intent of this thread), then talk about the characteristics of Supes that are present in all of his storylines.

Alright, we could just settle it that Goku can beat 99% of Supermen aside from the Uberman that hasn't been written yet.

 

[Frank]

You mean like WB's just done with Superman, changing both his costume and fundamentals?

This is more like a phase for him rather than a permanent look. I don't think Goku can stray too far from the Toriyama manga/cartoon look. GT had an interesting SSJ4 interpretation but that series failed to build any lasting continuity as Toriyama brushed it out completely.

And then superman stops holding back a little. then goku transforms again, and superman stops holding back a little more, etc etc etc.

Exactly. For these guys you can pull almost anything out of your *** and still claim victory depending on who you want to win. I'm just surprised so many are p00ping senzu beans for Goku.

Especially Nam!

The studio pressed him. Every creator doesn't want to be stuck in one creation.

Akira's original plan was to have Gohan take over the series but the studio pressed him back onto Goku because he was so popular. I think Akira scratched an itch with DBZ, but starting with Cell I think the whole concept was getting stuck on repeat.

Goku trained at 100 times normal gravity and Vegeta trained at 450 times normal gravity, and that's early on in the show. I'm sure by the end of Z in their higher levels of Super Saiyan they could train in the 1,000s of times normal gravity fairly easy.

Super Saiyan God is gigantically stronger than that. SS3 is obsolete now, even though SSG looks dumb.

There may be an interesting discussion about how each of these characters powers could be interpreted in each other's universe. Ki manipulation is mandatory in the DBZ universe and I'm not sure how Superman's powers would translate. Goku could be set up as a character with Doomsday-like power upgrades but it would be wise to put a limit on that.

I'm not a fan of near infinite power whether it's Goku or Superman. My essential problem with DBZ is when they got locked into infinitely rising power levels. How exactly do you depict a fight between two characters who can destroy a whole planet with one move? Goku did all he was ever going to do after he defeated Frieza. Otherwise, they'd have to level solar systems to accurately reflect the ridiculous upgrades to their power. Making craters in the ground is just about as much as they can show for all that nonsense.

There's also the burden of having to essentially drop any given villain once they've been defeated in DBZ which in comic book terms is just wasteful.

Kryptonian healing coma > Magic heart fixer pills.

 

[Snake Plissken]

There's also the burden of having to essentially drop any given villain once they've been defeated in DBZ which in comic book terms is just wasteful.

Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Vegeta, Android #18 and Majin Buu all became allies.

And no it's not wasteful, Superman has been rebooted out the *** with the same villains over and over. DBZ is one story.

 

[Solidus]

This guy vs. Superman...

 

[Snake Plissken]

This guy vs. Superman...

Definitely got a winner here.

[ame]https://youtu.be/E-WHW-QNswE[/ame]

 

[GasparZizou]

I'd argue that's due to much of the industry having a bias toward Superman.

Not at all, if anything, Supes is underrated by the industry and comic book readers.

You know what's cheating? Having Superman's abilities change every ten seconds to fit whatever hair-brained reboot, or whatever else that DC has planned . So if you want to make a fair argument, then decide on which version of Superman you'd want to pit against Goku. Or, if you want to generalize things (like the intent of this thread), then talk about the characteristics of Supes that are present in all of his storylines.

Every 10 seconds? It happens like every 20 years, Goku doesn't even have 3 years worth of storytelling.

Plus it's official information, it's cheating if you just pick whatever suits you the best.

And the only Superman traits that remain constant are his personality and some of his powers, even so, the intensity of his powers changes from version to version, there are no definitive powers, that's why I put him version vs version.

Hence.

Goku SSJ 1 and up > New 52, TAS, some alternate versions.

Pre crisis, post crisis, Prime> Goku SSJG

Alright, we could just settle it that Goku can beat 99% of Supermen aside from the Uberman that hasn't been written yet.

It's actually the other way around, Goku can only beat New 52 and a couple others, the rest mop the floor with Goku.

 

[Solidus]

Every 10 seconds? It happens like every 20 years, Goku doesn't even have 3 years worth of storytelling.

Plus it's official information, it's cheating if you just pick whatever suits you the best.

And the only Superman trait that remains constant is his personality, there are no definitive powers, that's why I put him version vs version.

Stop saying "cheating" - this isn't grade school, man . Also, "official information" doesn't connote canonicity. There are so many different interpretations of Superman, compared to just one Goku with a single storyline that's built upon. See what I'm getting at?

As for Superman's defining powers, ask ANYONE what they think about Superman, and they'll envision a strong man in blue tights that can fly. And in addition to having X-Ray vision and a weakness to Kryptonite, these are the traits that remain constant with Superman, regardless of the storyline; not that Kryptonian Kung Fu bull**** that you mentioned earlier lol. Unless you want to compare that particular Superman to Goku.

 

[Niltusk]

Stop saying "cheating" - this isn't grade school, man .

I hope thats supposed to just be an ironic statement.

 

[Frank]

Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Vegeta, Android #18 and Majin Buu all became allies.

And no it's not wasteful, Superman has been rebooted out the *** with the same villains over and over. DBZ is one story.

After 75 years, reboots are necessary. Goku is going to need more than SSG to keep him going. As far as I'm concerned, the character has powered himself into a corner.

His villains either convert or die. Vegeta and Piccolo were the strongest characters in the series but because they decided to take Goku's neverending power upgrades to their obvious conclusion, Picollo is about as relevant as Pilaf. Vegeta has now effectively been removed from that power race as well.

Frieza and Cell were pretty iconic but after they were used up in the race to keep up with Goku's (and Vegeta's) constantly increasing power levels, they were all too quickly gone and forgotten.